So let me get this straight: The Pentagon has video tapes of the Boeing hitting their own building..

WAKE UP!

Check out this song I made called "Wake Up" Im not too good with posting links so you would have to hear it off "www.myspace.com/ondeck247". The track was inspired by being a devoted ATS reader for well over a year. I wouldnt consider myself political rap but I had to make a song like this to at least attempt to wake the masses. Check it out it was written, produced and engineered by me. Wake Up people!!!

myspace.com/ondeck247
"Wake Up" by P.Smee for On Deck Ent.

Does anyone remember years ago when an airline flight took off in (I think it was Miami) south Florida and plunged into the everglades? The recovery crews and divers never recovered any part of an aircraft that was of any considerable size. Tragically, body parts were recovered in very miniscule pieces, as well. There was no conspiracy behind the fact that an airplane DID INDEED plunge into the everglades, killing all on board, however to hear these conspiracy theorists' point of view about these events, there MUST be some aircraft parts somewhere whenever a plane crashes. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that a plane going 500-700 miles per hour, as light as they are to sustain flight, will disentegrate when striking an immovable object.... common physics tells you this is a fact.

What concerns me is the fact that there WILL ALWAYS be someone sitting around with nothing better to do that whine, complain, and counter-argue that EVERYTHING has some grand conspiracy behind it.

Out of the respect for those who lost loved-ones on that fateful day, I don't WANT to see planes striking buildings, nor do I agree that others should desire to see such, just to satisfy their selfish desires to prove or disprove some gradiose conspiracy theory.

If it were up to ME, none of us would have seen the planes hitting anything...only the bystanders stories would attest to the fact that it was, indeed a plane...

That's just my two cents.

[edit on 6-11-2009 by mikesg]

Starred and Flagged. I like your way of thinking Doomsday.., and let me assure you that you're not alone. There are many people who are searching for the "real truth" of 9/11.......

Wherever it may lead them.

We need people willing to accept new ideas and look at old and new evidence with an unbiased eye.

But I believe the most important thing you have brought up with this thread is that we the "seekers of real truth" need to simplify our demands.
We need to FOCUS on one particular discrepancy or hole (if you will) in the 9/11 Official Story and look at it hard, I mean really really look into it, again without any tainted opinions.

Whether or not this one Hole should be the confiscated/missing Video Tapes of Flight 77 "allegedly" crashing into the Pentagon ...., I do not know. But it is a VERY good candidate in my opinion.

I just find it hard to believe that a building like the pentagon where EVERY square inch inside (and more thanlikely outside to a certain perimeter abd heaight) is video recorded from multiple angles, could have been hit bt a 757 and there are only a few grainy pictures (of what could be anything) to show for it.

For the record, people were talking about casualties earlier. I sdon't know if it's been mentioned but there were 189 in total. 64 of which were on the plane all crew, passengers, and "alleged hijackers (no survivors from the plane), and 125 people who were killed on the ground (I'm assuming all pentangon workers who were in the area of the damage path).

Again though, great thread, and if we could just get more people to think this way:

Instead of the "20 questions", or the "50 questions I want answered " concerning 9/11. I think we may have a chance at makeing progress.

Sure showing uninformed people the "20 Questions" thread is a FANTASTIC way to get people to actually start thinking...."hey that's just too many coincidences, and to many mistakes made by NORAD, and the aftermath of some crash sites just doesn't add up, and how did WTC& collapse like that ect.ect.(so there is a place for threads like those) They're great for getting someone who has no idea about any of these inconsistancies within the 9/11 official story involved in the truth movement, but it's not gonna get us anywhyere in the long run. It hasn't gotten us anywhere in 8 years!!!!!! It's time for a new approach.

I like the way Citizens Investigation team has done this. They FOCUS EVERYTHING on whether or not flight 77 flew North of the Citgo Station(Navy Annex) or South. Very simple, yet VERY effective. Because if they can prove by independant eyewitness testimony that it did fly North of the Citgo Station, well then, that kinda leaves the Official Story in Shambles. But they will not discuss Hlight 93, or the planes that crashed into the Trade Towers in NY. Very smart idea on CIT's part, and it sound like you have something of the same sort in mind?

Haveing said all this I Agree with you Doomsday. We need to pick ONE GLARING problem with how the events of 9/11 were handle and just go after THAT ONE KEY ISSUE. Makeing sure never to waver into wild theories like (no planes at the WTC, or holograms) of course anything is possible I believe a group like this should just distance itself from those types of theories as best it can. Again I don't know if the missing Pentagon camera footage should be the choice(theres so many to pick from, heh), but it would definitely make a fine one, imo.

Send me a U2U if you need someone to bounce any ideas off of, or if you have some people already willing to join a group like this..., count me in!

[edit on 6-11-2009 by Nola213]

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
reply to post by GenRadek

 

I don't think anyone claimed "men in black" planted evidence at the pentagon. From what I read a lot of people said they saw a boeing 757 fly over the pentagon before something else slammed the building.

Don't forget mr rumsfeld himself stated, perhaps mistakingly, that a missle impacted the building before correcting himself. Was it an honest mishap...probably not!

And you say we don't need further evidence because everyone that was there saw what happened but what makes you certain they would be able to distinguish a boeing 757 from an advanced missle?

Lastly you should realise that every single video that had actual footage was confiscated by the authorities for national security reasons, EVEN PRIVATELY OWNED CCTV FROM THE IMMEDIATE AREA! Why would the fbi act so paranoid in this regard unless they had something to hide?

[edit on 5-11-2009 by EarthCitizen07]

Heh. I have yet to see a single account that without a doubt saw an AA 757 do a flyover the Pentagon that is NOT twisted otu of context, or mistaken, or was overheard by someone that just had no idea WTF happened. I have not seen a single person that stood there, after the event and said, "I saw with my own eyes as I sat in my car staring at the Pentagon, and seeing a plane fly up and over the Pentagon." Not one.

a missile? Hmm, lets use some critical thinking here for a sec. He is referring to the aircraft that was USED as a missile, to strike the Pentagon. What is the definition of a missile? The original definition. Lets see, a large fueled 757 being used as a missile to attack a target? yep, sounds about right. But unfortunately some people just cant use critical thinking or common sense to understand what he meant.

Advanced missile? Boy oh boy, that holds as much water as me saying there are magic missiles powered by pixy-dust and piloted by pixies. Yes, there are "advanced missiles" out there. Tomahawks, ALCM, ICBMs, Minutemen, etc. Now, I want you to pull up a picture or report or anything on a special "advanced" missile, with a 757 wingspan, length, height, and the two engines hanging off the wings. I don't think people are dumb enough or so blind or whatever, to mistake something like this:



for this:



As for the videos confiscated by the FBI, the 85 videos? Yes, those have already been released.
www.flight77.info...
I would recommend you read through the tapes.

Yeah If they have nothing to hide? Why hide everything? Guilty verdict from me.

they will release the tape....but beware of the tape...it may be a phony like the rest of them.....

I don't believe the tapes exist anymore.
Reason being; The FBI were sent around to all locations around the pentagon
to retrieve all tapes showing what really hit the pentagon. They then returned them all to Dick Cheney, who promptly destroyed them all.

Originally posted by falcon51
they will release the tape....but beware of the tape...it may be a phony like the rest of them.....

And this folks, is exactly why it doesn't matter if they release one or not. They could release a tape that has 100,000 hours of independent study on them, with the result that it came down just as they said, and I 100% GUARANTEE you that the same folks here would just attack it from another angle. Fake.. phony.. movie production.. who knows, you name it, it will be thought of.

It doesn't matter what they say or produce as evidence, admit it.

Originally posted by fleabit

Originally posted by falcon51
they will release the tape....but beware of the tape...it may be a phony like the rest of them.....

And this folks, is exactly why it doesn't matter if they release one or not. They could release a tape that has 100,000 hours of independent study on them, with the result that it came down just as they said, and I 100% GUARANTEE you that the same folks here would just attack it from another angle. Fake.. phony.. movie production.. who knows, you name it, it will be thought of.

It doesn't matter what they say or produce as evidence, admit it.

So I guess if that's the case... We should just abolish all "evidence" regarding any investigation from now on.

It doesn't matter right?

Because some of these over-the-top conspiracy junkies will just discredit it anyway.



The fact of the matter is the public has a right to see those tapes. Many people think the JFK Zapruder film was edited, but thanks to the arrest of Clay Shaw... the public got to see the evidence.

Doomsday2029, regarding JFK and the Zapruder film. There are 486 frames that have been released called the "original Zapruder film". I have studied all 486 and I believe there are a lot of missing frames, showing a lot more. But that's for another topic. My point here is they only released a doctored version, to satisfy the general public.

I honestly believe that the ONLY way the American people are ever going to get to the bottom of the 9-11 conspiracy, is 50 years from now when all the people who were involved or have knowledge of the truth, are dead and beyond any type of justice. Can you imagine what the reaction would be and what would happen to Bush and Cheney ? There is no place on the entire planet for them or anyone else involved, to hide.

[edit on 6-11-2009 by DAVID64]

reply to post by GenRadek


GenRadek says:

As for the videos confiscated by the FBI, the 85 videos? Yes, those have already been released.
www.flight77.info...
I would recommend you read through the tapes.

I don't see where that web site provides 85 videos for viewing. It has some video footage and an FBI created list of videos and some description of their contents.

People want to see the full unedited unadulerated videos rather then be told what's on them. You're advocating that we trust the hungry fox to guard the chicken house. It goes something like this: The fox says: "No, I didn't eat the chickens. Here's my complete and accurate list of all the chickens in there and a description of each one. There, are you satisfied now. What? You want to go in and see for yourself? No need for that. Just read my list and descriptions. That's all you need to see. It wouldn't matter if I showed you anyway. You'd just cook up some other excuse not to believe me."

[edit on 11/6/2009 by dubiousone]

reply to post by 5 oClock


The Pentagon is not a 7-11... The tapes have hours, and minutes of what places are being filmed, and what places are not being filmed, and at what time.... This is the PENTAGON....hence most tapes are not released....

Yes, it does have to do with National Security...

I can't believe so many people can't understand this...

When ALL videos of the PENTAGON are released, then EVERYONE, including ENEMIES can see them...

Sometimes it almost feels like at least some of the people who keep protesting that these videos are not being released, and claim this is some excuse for some conspiracy, are either too naive, or they are enemies, and want to see these tapes to see if they can find the weaknesses of one of the most important buildings of our government....



[edit on 6-11-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

Originally posted by someoldguy
Doomsday2029, regarding JFK and the Zapruder film. There are 486 frames that have been released called the "original Zapruder film". I have studied all 486 and I believe there are a lot of missing frames, showing a lot more. But that's for another topic. My point here is they only released a doctored version, to satisfy the general public.

And my point is...

most of today's public is satisfied with the fact they won't release some of the tapes they confiscated, and possibly their own recordings.

I'm not satisfied.

I want to see something.

If they want to edit some of those tapes... then so be it.


(I think the Zapruder film was tampered with also BTW)

reply to post by ElectricUniverse



This was the most painful post I've ever read on ATS.

That seriously hurt my eyes.

Originally posted by Doomsday 2029
This was the most painful post I've ever read on ATS.

That seriously hurt my eyes.

Yep, I know that THINKING hurts for some people...

Maybe you should check first of all what the PENTAGON is..

Yes, there are conspiracies, and then there are wild claims that make no sense.....

reply to post by dubiousone

People want to see the full unedited unadulerated videos rather then be told what's on them. You're advocating that we trust the hungry fox to guard the chicken house. It goes something like this: The fox says: "No, I didn't eat the chickens. Here's my complete and accurate list of all the chickens in there and a description of each one. There, are you satisfied now. What? You want to go in and see for yourself? No need for that. Just read my list and descriptions. That's all you need to see. It wouldn't matter if I showed you anyway. You'd just cook up some other excuse not to believe me."

You are absolutely right; The OS supporters will take anything and everything the government say as the gospel truth.

If the government said they are innocent of a crime you better, believe it! Because they would not lie, they cannot lie, they cannot conspirer, they cannot mislead, they do not make mistakes, they are above all human forms, and they cannot do any wrong.

What would the outcome be if we have a corrupt government investigated itself on 911?
It would be the same outcome if a communist government were to investigate themselves.
Both parties would find no wrongdoing, because the corruption runs so deep. Where is the proof that this is true? One only needs to read the 911-commission report to see the cover-up and no accountability.



[edit on 6-11-2009 by impressme]

reply to post by ElectricUniverse






I can find plenty of 3-D models that show how the planes hit & impacted the WTC... but I'm having trouble finding a 3-D model of the plane hitting the Pentagon.

Can you find some videos of this for me?




Not a 3-D model of that ridiculous flight path that 77 supposedly had to maneuver to hit the one side of the building that was renovated to withstand such an attack... but a 3-D model that shows something similar to the video I posted above.

Oh it's the Pentagon... I forgot... Lord Forbid if our enemies saw the interior of that architecture.



Face it...

The Official Story regarding the Pentagon is so ridiculous that I'm willing to ignore the other 99 problems with the official story.


Can I at the very least get a 3-D animation model of how the Boeing did damage to the interior structure...

Oh what's that?

National Security?

That's what I thought.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/da3e0250fc73.jpg[/atsimg]


And.....


[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/26037e67a587.jpg[/atsimg]

....are my favourite snaps of the Pentacon before it collapsed.....

Note the dead bodies, the gallons of blood, the massive fuselage, the enormous amount of debris as well as the massive gaping hole in the wall caused by the plane as it impacted......see the suitcases and cargo strewn on the unusually untouched lawn...note the typical carnage and horrific damage, as is common at all plane crash sites..

Also take note of the massive gash in the wall caused by the plane impacting at some totally ridiculous speed....


Pay no attention to the unbroken windows surrounding the impact site,covered in foam, the electrical spools awkwardly situated in front of the impact site,or that seemingly indestructible lawn without a scratch on it....they mean nothing....

Then, after it had caused all that chaos,the plane passed through the Pentacon and plopped out of the other side, causing the horrific devestation seen below...


[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/f9e3dac59fdd.jpg[/atsimg]


See.....clear as mud....

Who needs video???

Its obvious what happened.....

...you dont need to be a pilot with 30 years experience or a fireman used to picking up body parts....

Do you really need the other video footage??

I certainly dont....

Originally posted by Doomsday 2029
............
Oh what's that?

National Security?

That's what I thought.

It is obvious you ARE NOT thinking...

But keep trying to claim the P.E.N.T.A.G.O.N. is a "regular building just like a 7-11"......

I mean C'MON...people can get videos of 7-11s...why not get videos of the P.E.N.T.A.G.O.N.?.....

After all, they are the same type of building to some people....

BTW, the WTC DOESN'T EXIST ANYMORE....hummm.... guess you have got to be a genius to figure out that there is no need for national security, or any other form of security involved about the videos of a building that DOESN'T EXIST anymore....

But is the PENTAGON down?... or is the PENTAGON still standing?.... hummm...If it is still standing, why do they need to have any security about it heh?... I wonder why.....

[edit on 6-11-2009 by ElectricUniverse]