Is Yahweh the Supreme Creator or an Evil God?

All truth comes out. No matter how had you try to bury it.

The human want/need to see and measer the human spirit, is proof in itself of Spiritual Consciousness.

Originally posted by wylekat
Fine. Now open that magic book of yours and tell me why God created pure evil, and let it run loose- instead of just destroying Lucifer outright.

There is an opposition to all things. God is all that is good, yes, he created a being that is all evil, it doesn't make God evil, God has to play by the rules of the universe, He is not above them.

Just as a good father and mother can bring a child into the world and that child turns out to be a serial killer, it doesn't mean the parents are immediately evil for bearing and rearing this child, it doesn't mean the parents are immediately evil for not murdering the child.

Your attempt at logic is flawed.

First, Supreme Creator (Universe, Earth, animals, man)...then, he got bored....Evil God (Plagues, sacrifices, pillars of salt, etc.)....then, he had a kid (by committing adultery, one of his own sins (Mary was with Joseph), but eh, he's God right?).....New Testament God. God Lite. A crisper, cleaner god for the modern age.

reply to post by dunwichwitch


I do not know what you have been through yet I have been through trials, losses, spiritual wars that have left me daft for years at a time. I turned my back on the Trinity. Jesus especially because as a child I felt so close to Him. God NEVER turned his back on me, I turned from Him out of fear grief, frustration and being attacked by demons so unmentionable. We are all human, sinners by nature even if we feel we do our best. After 10 years of this, I was sitting on a rock calling God names when I witnessed something so incredible, that I could no longer deny Him. The spiritual war got so much worse. The demons were more powerful but I actually said get ye behind me in Jesus name. When I died for several minutes they were there. Amused as I had attempted the ultimate of sins as I had been taught and was saying Oh S---- Oh F----- OH d---- I can't say that in front of You. I'm not talking about the demons being there I am speaking of God , Jesus and the third that I can only imagine was the Holy Ghost. They were amused and loving and holding me in that brilliant white warm light. I did not want to come back to my life here yet they said I was not done at all. Apparently not as I have loved many who loved God & Jesus as children and could no longer hear them. Most almost all today do. The lepers of today, we the weak druggies , alkies, homeless and loveless. The most precious of Christs flock. He wants us all back and I do not know or care what you have been through.Someone else has too. He wants you back so be still, and know that He is whispering to you in that aching voice you try so darn hard to ignore. Let go of feeling as if you have been stiffed harder than myself or anyone else and listen hard. If you need someone to talk to I will give you my phone number. We can share misiries and accomplishments together. Debbie

reply to post by sylvie


I like everyone's thoughts on this. Exccept for those pure haters although this thread seems to lack them.

Just a little background of where I'm coming from.

I'm a second generation Japanese American which means my parents moved to America from Japan and I was born here. My home didn't really discuss spiritual matters and in fact, while we were Buddhist by tradition, my father was and still is atheist. My mother thinks there might be a God but doesn't really consider these things...they both wanted me to be a doctor to make money etc. Typical Asian family.

In any case, I was totally void of spirituality growing up. It was all about performance. In college, I studied sociology and of course they reinforced my atheistic conspiratorial worldview. In my studies at University, I began looking at the sociology of religion. It was fascinating to study and look at why people believe what they do and how society was controlled by religion. In the process, I was faced with annoying Christians who would shove their views down my throat. Most other religions did not seem to to be as aggressive as the Christians. But interestingly, it intrigued me enough to ask the question..."why are Christians so convinced that their worldview is the correct one?"

To make a long story short, and to stay on point to the OP, I landed in a place where I became a so called "Christian" or the way I like to put it, a Jesus follower. But one HUGE hurdle along the way was the Old Testament God. He just seemed so cruel. Apologists tried to explain it away with logic like, "...well they were so evil..." and "God allowed them 500 years to repent and they didn't" and "It's a figure of speech like when a sports team says they 'murdered the opponent' they don't mean they literally murdered them" etc etc. But I still thought something was off. Then I came across the topic of the Nephilim.

In Genesis 6, it talks about the sons of God, who in my study are really fallen angelic beings who mated with human women and proced a race of giants/hybrids called the Nephilim. Most people here at ATS will probably be familiar with it. It was this corruption of all flesh that led to God flooding the earth. Verses like, "And God saw the earth, and behold, it was corrupt, for all flesh had corrupted their way on the earth. "Gen. 6:12 jumped out at me. And the study of the word for Noah being perfect in his generations "tamim" seemed to indicate genetic purity...in other words, not tainted by this hybridization on earth.

Then throughout the Old Testament, the Israelites go through and slaughter entire tribes. This is somewhat cutting edge research when it comes to Old Testament scholars, but folks like Dr. Michael Heiser who is a Phd in Ancient Near Eastern languages (who really shows why Zacheria Sitchin is wrong) have put forth the argument that such utter destruction was the eliminating of this abominable race of beings who were never meant to be. Goliath, king Og of Bashan etc...they are all giants and according to extra biblical books like Enoch and Jubilees, they were terrifying, cannibals, and just pure evil.

In this context, YHWH was doing humanity a favor with the flood, and through the destruction of enemy nations.

This view is called the Divine Council. If you study that, things begin to make A LOT of sense. Most Christians are not aware of this outlook, but in fact, it's very coherent and really answers why YHWH of the Old Testament seems so..."evil" but in fact, He's not!

I'd also throw in there that Jesus of the NT re-iterates in several places that He is YHWH of the Old Testament. He's the cloud rider from Daniel, he's the burning bush etc.

So ultimately you have to decide for yourself, but I've found that the Divine Council theology really is the most coherent with the Ancient Near East perspective and consistent throughout the entirety of the Bible from Genesis to Revelation and answers the question of "was YHWH evil" with a definitive "NO"

Hope that helps some.

reply to post by FaceLikeTheSun


well i did summon a shape-shifter by saying * i am Yahweh make your presence known to us * Us being me and my 2 friends that were unexpectantly laying on the ground looking at a meteor shower. ( mind you i was thinking of an entirely different prayer altogether) Anyways at the time i understood Yahweh is the name the living consiousness that is within everything. So would all the beings together be Yahweh? (as in the son of man and God the father)

What my question would be. Who is the being who anoints Yahweh if Yahweh is a man?

Because if what your saying is the truth of it. ( tho honestly it really does not matter because either or leads to the same entities) Is he the emissary for the gods and humans?

Do the shapeshifters even have a name besides Anubis?

If Yahweh was a man and is the returning Jesus, than who is Yahshua?

reply to post by CrypticSouthpaw


Some people say Yahweh is The Devil. The Beast talked about in The Book of Revelations. There are so many different points of view on this topic.

What qualities does 'darkness' represent to you? To many it means different things. Some just call 'darkness' as 'evil' or 'negativity'.

When I think of darkness, I think of being humble because the darkness isn't seen and it is always the light that takes the attention. I think of acceptance, because light shines and bring attention to, while darkness just allows anything to be embraced by it...

What is your view on the qualities of 'light' and 'darkness'?

Originally posted by CrypticSouthpaw
reply to post by FaceLikeTheSun

 

well i did summon a shape-shifter by saying * i am Yahweh make your presence known to us * Us being me and my 2 friends that were unexpectantly laying on the ground looking at a meteor shower. ( mind you i was thinking of an entirely different prayer altogether) Anyways at the time i understood Yahweh is the name the living consiousness that is within everything. So would all the beings together be Yahweh? (as in the son of man and God the father)

What my question would be. Who is the being who anoints Yahweh if Yahweh is a man?

Because if what your saying is the truth of it. ( tho honestly it really does not matter because either or leads to the same entities) Is he the emissary for the gods and humans?

Do the shapeshifters even have a name besides Anubis?

If Yahweh was a man and is the returning Jesus, than who is Yahshua?

edit on 30-5-2013 by CrypticSouthpaw because: (no reason given)

I do find it interesting. There was a "prophet yahweh" who summoned a UFO which was captured by a news crew a couple years back. Yahweh in the Bible is used when God makes personal connections with people.

I don't think Yahweh is a man. Jehovah, Yahweh, Elohim are all names of God used in the Old Testament. Yahweh when there is a personal connection, Jehovah just means The Lord and is usually a part of a larger saying such as Jehovah Nissi (The Lord My Banner) Jehovah-Raah (The Lord My Shepherd) Jehovah Rapha (The Lord That Heals) etc...these aren't separate Lords but rather descriptive titles. Then there is Elohim which is used in a more transcendent way to describe God. Of course Elohim also can be plural like sheep in the english. So context becomes extremely important. This is why the Divine Council is so coherent in the Bible.

Psalm 82:1 is the best example.

God presides in the great assembly; he renders judgment among the “gods”

Fair translation but when you look at the Hebrew it's...

Elohim takes His stand in His own congregation; He judges in the midst of Elohim.

So we have Elohim stands in the presence of Elohim. And of course this shows how the single-plural is used.

Elohim is also used of spirits of the dead, demons, angels in some cases etc.

I think all of it has to do with titles. So for example, in a company, you have the Boss, whose also the CEO and of course Mr. Johnson (or whatever) whose also just named Chuck.

Depending on context, you would use different titles.

Yahweh is NOT a man. I believe Yahweh is God. The Creator. He became a man for the benefit of all mankind. This is where the Gospel comes in.

Originally posted by awareness10
Now this is an Interesting thread, would be nice to expand on this as it died in infancy which is rather unfortunate. Sylvie if you`re still on ats you should continue with it, i think maybe there are a few more
here now who arent as closed off to the possibility of this Creation here, being a complete farce, over in the sheep pens like some seem to be. Everything here is upside down and backwards, and the God of this world whatever people choose to call him, has two faces, which other`s refer to as Satan. One Tryrannical Ruler who demands all come to him or be forever tormented in eternal fire, and the other, who cons knowing it doesnt matter as long as no one ever wakes up from the Dream mare, ensuring he òr whatever you choose to refer to this god as, retains full Ownership of You. That`s not love, which is another topic for another day.

edit on 28-5-2011 by awareness10 because: (no reason given)

Actually, this is a brilliant thread topic

When the early church canonized what we know as "The Bible", the great deception got a corporate "sponsor" in the Romans through Constantine (avowed pagan- wasn't baptized until death). The Bible was to the Romans and early church a method of crowd control. Base your government on a religion, and use the beliefs of the many to control the many.
The Gnostics were labeled as heretical, persecuted by the church, and brushed aside into near invisibility. Gnostic texts were either destroyed by the church, or as many believe, sequestered to the Vatican archives. Gnostics were dangerous only because they would not conform. Gnostics also do not tithe to the church... very important consideration for those times.
Gnosticism did make a temporary comeback during the Crusades... only to be squashed again by the church. The history is there.
It seems to have begun a bit of revival... and is gaining popularity.
It will be interesting to see how all of this plays out...

Is Yahweh the Supreme Creator or an Evil God?

This is a human concept, but I suspect it to be flawed.

You look into the universe and you see construction, and destruction. You do not see evil or good. Evil is when something hurts your feelings, someone else feelings? To cause needless pain and suffering? Are loins evil because they kill to survive? Are Dictators evil because they mistreat and defile their people? These are all traits of human beings, not of nature. Human beings are the only ones who see evil.

In the universe destruction can lead to new creations. One step backwards, two steps forward. Is the universe evil because a star explodes and leaves a gas cloud? Or the rotting corps of a killed animal, that leaves soil, for plants to grow in? It is all creative in the end.

Now is Yahweh evil? Well, if he is of flesh and blood, then he must follow his DNA program. He is a survivor and a powerful one at that. In his mind maybe he does not have the "wiring" to see what humans see. Maybe he cant feel emotions the way we do. We are so quick to assign human attributes to other life forms.

In my opinion, he is not the "Divine", but created by the Divine to play a role in the creation, destruction program.

Lets say for argument Yahweh actually represents a very ancient, intelligent prehistoric life form that was created to do certain things, accomplish certain tasks for the Divine. And because of his DNA (Light) programing, can not change and adapt to what he himself had initiated. Does that make him evil? Or something for Humanity to overcome?

You have given two choices, but I believe the answer is another. He is a free ranging people eater who needs to be controlled. Just sayin

reply to post by All Seeing Eye


It becomes more clear when you eliminate the good vs. evil paradigm, and look at it from a Gnostic standpoint, ie. STO (service to others) and STS (service to self).

Yahweh is a classic STS: You shall have no gods before ME, you will worship ME... those who defy Y are slaughtered...

Christ is an STO: Do unto others, love thy neighbor, be forgiving, be compassionate...

That is the true schism of the Bible

Originally posted by madmac5150
reply to post by All Seeing Eye

 

It becomes more clear when you eliminate the good vs. evil paradigm, and look at it from a Gnostic standpoint, ie. STO (service to others) and STS (service to self).

Yahweh is a classic STS: You shall have no gods before ME, you will worship ME... those who defy Y are slaughtered...

Christ is an STO: Do unto others, love thy neighbor, be forgiving, be compassionate...

That is the true schism of the Bible

So true. Look at the difference between Mammalian life and reptilian life. Mammals are basically STO while the Reptile is generally STS. So when taking that into context its easy to see who Yahweh represents.
The body is naturally half STS because of the Genetic code it carries, but that code can be overridden by our unseen part, the STO spirit.

Yahweh may rule over the body, but the spirit, as it always will be, is Divine.

I think JC would make a fine Dragon Slayer, in fact, wasn't he?

reply to post by All Seeing Eye


It seems like STS always win. Those who are always serving others will become slaves to those who choose to manipulate and serve themselves.

Service to Others people, will be serving those others who are Serving Themselves (The majority).

Do what you want, or serve another so that they can use you to get what they want.

STS (Joy) vs STO (Love)

STS (Freedom) vs STO (Servitude / Enslavement)

STS (Self Empowerment) vs STO (Depending on others and letting others depend on you)

If all were STS and had what they wanted there would be no need to be STO. STO can only exist in negativity when people cannot sustain themselves.

Interestingly enough, just by being yourself you ARE shinning your NATURAL ORGANIC light.

The TRUE light is the light of reality - the light of TRUTH - the light of HONESTY / SELF EXPRESSION.

The FALSE light is one that makes one feel good and have one always chasing after it.

reply to post by arpgme

It seems like STS always win. Those who are always serving others will become slaves to those who choose to manipulate and serve themselves.

Service to Others people, will be serving those others who are Serving Themselves (The majority).

But that is exactly the problem, abuse.

The Pyramid represents everyone serving the one(s) at the top. The upside down Pyramid represents the one at the bottom serving all above. In my view life should be both, at the same time, that is balance.

Why are we here in the first place?

Are you here to serve me, and the reverse? No, a certain force has made this a dog eat dog reality, but it doesn't have to be..

I have a feeling that this reality was created as sort of a amusement/ repayment/ vacation experience. I mean, after all floating around without a body can be quite boring, especially when you consider the timelines involved. So lets give ourselves something new to experience, learn at the same time. Lets experience emotions we could never have without the body. Lets have fun while we are doing it. Wouldn't it be fun to have a job being the first boots on Mars? Sure its work, but loving every minute of it. That would be a STS/STO job.

The problem stems from ignorance. Sure, as long a pure STS power is in existence and is not known about publicly, they will rule over the ignorant masses. But break that cycle of ignorance and see what happens.

Mother and Fathers are not to be STO to their children, strictly. They have lives they must live too. So parents in reality are already STO/ STS.

Im not going to go into this area very deeply for a few reasons, which many of you know already, but it has to do with a unseen battle raging. What mindset will win, what will loose.

Humanity got off on a bad foot, and its time to correct that.

We are constantly bombarded with both mindsets STS /STO as if we need to choose, but we don't, and never will. We will retain our right to choose, individually, no matter what law is written. We should all be STS /STO. That is the balance. That is the nature of our being, and that is why we are here. We are here to teach and learn. We are here to govern and be governed. We are here to kill when necessary and live and let others live. We are here to serve others, and serve ourselves. I feel sadness for those who think their way is exclusive to all others. No one is more important than anyone else. Every single one of us is a unique and special treasure that will only come once, in this lifetime.

Go ahead and continue your age old battle, wasting time until the planet disintegrates then ask yourselves, were you serving humanity, or your own egos. You know who I'm talking to. There is no reason that will be accepted why you can not COMPROMISE. Your battle is killing the ones you say you love!



Your brand of love, stinks. I'm sorry if you find this offensive, but I find the war even more offensive.
Get it together, and lets move along.

Yahweh's oldest name is En.lil (sumerian). Half brother to E.a/En.ki/Ptah. There father was Anu. En.lil was an A.nun.na.ki (those from heaven who came to earth). He was not God. Period. He had dominion over the Semitic tribes of long ago. This put him at odds with En.ki, because En.ki had dominion over the African/Canaanite tribes. En/ki was also the snake in the Garden of E.din (place in the far away built). The Sumerin text lays all of this out in detail. The Sumerian cuneiform tablets are much older than the Hebrew Bible. Basically the bible unedited.

reply to post by All Seeing Eye


"Sharing" seems to be the balance between always Giving and always Taking.

If we all at least shared, everyone who cannot be rich will at least have some type of comfort.

reply to post by arpgme


its pretty simple actually and to me is rational.

Everything humans can perceive, Light from a fire, light from a car light from the sun. Ultra violets and gammas.

This is obviously a corporal description. There fore, This light everyone rants about ( the Light you can see from a sun) The great deception. Is that DARKNESS is ACTUALLY the ETERNAL LIGHT. and its very easy to explain.

Im going to need you to drop all moral codes. All ethics and anything you assumed to label darkness with because that was all brainwashing done by greys ALONNNNNNNGGGGG time ago.

Since then people have thought they were Demons. And that's 100% the truth.


Listen to my words very carefully. Everything i am about to say will be moraless. It will not sound like another one of those fabricated. Oh well light is good and dark is obviously evil because the media told me.

YEAH? well the media also told you terrorists blew up the twin towers, They tell you that vacines are safe and don't contain over 40 unidentified viruses floating around in each needle.

So honestly. You really should take the hint that the Pleiadians new age movement with all the light metaphores are just supposed to screw with peoples heads. Its like we are being brought back to biblical times

And are made to believe they are here to help. Well at the same time remaking the nephlem again for their army they plan on invading with. They are amassing a human breeding program where giant people are being produced.

They are going to use these people to convince humans that the corperal light is the way simply because the owls ( the Greys that possess other creatures in this galaxy) They cannot possess all humans here but they are trying.

Star steeds are their attempt at mind controlling the human race with human Avatars. But Yahweh set up the decahedron which prevents Satan from getting passed the * seal* its a geometric shape that destributes the matter along evenly.


My views on dark and light is that its backwards. Light is misleading and darkness is overwhelming.
And no evil being will control darkness simply because of the re precautions of hades.

You don't really understand that any dark being is at the highest level of accension there is.

There is only 1 state of non physical matter and that is darkness. I don't care what anyone TRIES to say.
This is the absolute truth. Just look around you. The universe is not something separate from ourselves.

People say * you can put your hand through light* yes only in moderation. Because its not really the *light* You should be more careful because its Actually just the element Fire. A corperal element just like water eath ( physical mass ) and air ( gas)

We know that the universe is surrounded by darkness. We know that darkness neither generates hot nor cold and the most retarded sentence anyone could of made up. Darkness is the absence of light.

Who ever made that up obviously does not understand how the universe works. No... Darkness is invisible.
There is no absence of light because IT IS LIGHT. Blinding light. You just can't see into it because each particle of darkness has a protective coat. The mass is so heavy and so small it exists outside our laws of reality.


THIS IS THE ONLY PARTICLE THAT CAN DO THIS Now. This is ALL scientific. And is explainable as you saw without using the philosphy of other people. I have my own philosphies and people think their quite odd.

a particle of darkness is like an atom but only bigger and full of crushed into a hot core of pure creative mass.
This creative mass burns hotter than any sun. Simply because it has the energy of planets stars and asteroids as well as gas inside tiny condensed balls floating through space. At one point life was in at least one tiny ball... and theres trillions...probably more inside your room alone. You see how big of a deception this is?


its all literally backwards. Everyone says the universe is empty because of the absence of light. I say its full because of each particle of darkness being many many many times in scal smaller than the matter and energy contained within its darkcoat barrier. If you were to split a particle of darkness it would create an explosion big enough to suck in our sun. Then the black hole would dematerialize because it has no fuel to feed on.

Black holes are like black fires. Converting everything into black ash that remains unoticed because of its lack of ability to generate heat or cold. Where as with light. well. You can't spend more than an hour in direct sunlight with no shirt off compared to how long you can *chill* in the darkness.

Its just corperal fire honestly. If people knew they were worshipping corperal fire ( they could just as easily worship liquid) and think that the angels are rivers. instead of glowing light beings.
Just saying.


Like i said there is no moral stance on dark or light. Its all physics.

Just so you understand the process.

Wind fire water and earth reprisent this This x. This X reprisents gases, liquids, florecents. and physical matter.

Matter can convert from any state that its in. Weither it be liquid. luminescent gas or solid We can turn ice back into water and into air. We can also make it a solid and liquid and we can also set water on fire though various transumations.

Now you need to understand that no matter what. ALLL of that that matter no matter what state its in gets sucked into a black hole eventually. All the darkness in our universe was made by black holes. Remember i said black matter and energy particles hold the mass of planets and stars? This is how. When things are sucked into that mega straw wthich is a black hole. It squeezes it till it reaches a very tiny super condensed ball. Like i said its so small and its gravity is so strong it technically lives outside the realm of our corperal understandings.

The universe is quite full and we are lucky we won the draw of 1 out of 111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111 11111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111 of a chance of being given life.

Considering how much darkness is out there and how much of it is condensed matter. Now you know why people are sent to hades. Its to make room for new particles of darkness, new souls to be given chance at life if they failed.

reply to post by CrypticSouthpaw


There are so many different perspectives out that, and I can sense that there is scientific understanding about what you're saying about dark energy.

Darkness is not the absence of light, everything is energy and darkness is just a different type - so I agree with you that.

Most refer to "nothingness" or "darkness" when what they really mean is "space". Space (empty space without light, matter, heat ) is basically this darkness energy that makes up the basics of reality. From this darkness particles of light (called virtual particles) manifest into existence.

This physical world gives less freedom than the spiritual world so if anything I would think being about to STAY in the spiritual world is the true gift (of maybe I just feel like that now because I'm a human and I'm already here), but this reality seems to come with a lot of suffering that doesn't seem to be necessary in the spiritual world.

As for Anubis, people think that just because a spirit is mean that means that it is "evil" (having negative entities). Maybe Anubis is mean because he cares and is protective, people seem to assume the worse. Every being in this universe has reasons behind why they do the things they do.

A great philosopher once said, evil is just ignorance because if person actually felt and knew that what they were doing were wrong - they would not be doing it. In doing it anyway, it shows that somewhere deep down inside there is ignorance ( a lack of Deep understanding of the importance of compassion and truth).

reply to post by arpgme


i totally agree with you. IF people can't see the differences of morals and how they actually split down the middle.
Than it will be very hard for us all to get along.

And your right Anubis does care. And the reason why he is doing what hes doing is because he does care.

They made us humans and they love us. Just as the book is written. Just as its written on the pyramids.

Just as the legends go. They have always loved us but the death and suffering comes at a normal price. You have to also understand that we are matter. And matter converts. Constantly . tho we may not reach dark matter mode. Or be converted to dark matter as frequently. matter still is coverted constantly thru the 4. and death is just another form of matter cycling. conscious matter and energy conversion

YHVH/YHWH is/was a genius whose favorite game to play was "as you wish".
He likes to hand over to his enemies the people of the star of David.
They're carried off in unto cities as slaves. Once there... theybecome scattered.
They find slave positions throughout the city. Then they breed abundantly.
point in case is they overrun cities and usurp them.
yhwh's sense of humor.