Number of victims to unknown virus growing! State of emergency to be imposed in Ukraine?

DP

[edit on 1/11/09 by asen_y2k]

DP...

[edit on 1/11/09 by asen_y2k]

Originally posted by asen_y2k
Does anyone know if Tamiflu will be effective again pneumonic plague?? Like Marburg or SARS....my Microbio books has just one paragraph on this...nothing about meds...

It looks like Tamiflu is only effective against Influenza A and B.

Link to Tamiflu on Wikipedia

Regards,
G

Originally posted by euleberlin
Wow, no courier service is weird. I had not thought that would stop so fast. Good plan to smuggle Tamiflu, though it sounds like a stretch from here.
But what can you do else already?
If EU wanted to help, they would...

Sorry, don´t know much about Tamiflu, but i´d say it´s for flus only, hence the name. But i´m sure there are other members who know much more about this med.
Again, keep fine!

I said smuggling because to me also it seems like a stretch too. So much for a few doses of medicines. But she said she had no other options. This is the only way. She also said it feels like world war II

[edit on 1/11/09 by asen_y2k]

reply to post by asen_y2k


Tamiflu is an antiviral - the plague is bacterial, so my guess would be that it would not be useful.

Pneumonic plague is one of three main forms of plague, all of which are caused by the bacterium Yersinia pestis. It is more virulent and rarer than bubonic plague. The difference between the versions of plague is simply the location of the infection. Pneumonic plague is an infection in the lung(s), bubonic plague is an infection of the buboes or lymph nodes, while septicemic plague is an infection in the blood stream.

Pneumonic plague is a very aggressive infection requiring early treatment. To reduce the risk of death, antibiotics must be given within 24 hours of first symptoms.[2] Streptomycin, gentamicin, tetracyclines, and chloramphenicol are all effective against pneumonic plague.

Also, according to the link this wouldn't be the first time the pneumonic plague has spread without any reporting:

Since 2001, the World Health Organization (WHO) has reported six plague outbreaks, though some may go unreported because they often happen in remote areas. Between 1998 and 2009, nearly 24,000 cases have been reported, including about 2,000 deaths, in Africa, Asia, the Americas and Eastern Europe.[1] The vast majority of the world's cases (98%) are in Africa.[1]

About 1500 people have died over the week of October 25th, 2009 in Ukraine. As noted by some doctors, the reason - pneumonic plague. High temperatures from the first day, a burning sensation in the chest, the desire to drink cold and nausea - all of these symptoms are frightening. People die in a few days. Andrew Makrush, head physician of one from the Ternopil hospital believes that only in the Ternopil killed over 1,000 people. Andrew Makrush, head physician of one from the Ternopil hospital believes that only in the Ternopil killed over 1000 people.[

en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by CINY8
reply to post by asen_y2k

 

Tamiflu is an antiviral - the plague is bacterial, so my guess would be that it would not be useful.

Pneumonic plague is one of three main forms of plague, all of which are caused by the bacterium Yersinia pestis. It is more virulent and rarer than bubonic plague. The difference between the versions of plague is simply the location of the infection. Pneumonic plague is an infection in the lung(s), bubonic plague is an infection of the buboes or lymph nodes, while septicemic plague is an infection in the blood stream.

Pneumonic plague is a very aggressive infection requiring early treatment. To reduce the risk of death, antibiotics must be given within 24 hours of first symptoms.[2] Streptomycin, gentamicin, tetracyclines, and chloramphenicol are all effective against pneumonic plague.

Also, according to the link this wouldn't be the first time the pneumonic plague has spread without any reporting:

Since 2001, the World Health Organization (WHO) has reported six plague outbreaks, though some may go unreported because they often happen in remote areas. Between 1998 and 2009, nearly 24,000 cases have been reported, including about 2,000 deaths, in Africa, Asia, the Americas and Eastern Europe.[1] The vast majority of the world's cases (98%) are in Africa.[1]

About 1500 people have died over the week of October 25th, 2009 in Ukraine. As noted by some doctors, the reason - pneumonic plague. High temperatures from the first day, a burning sensation in the chest, the desire to drink cold and nausea - all of these symptoms are frightening. People die in a few days. Andrew Makrush, head physician of one from the Ternopil hospital believes that only in the Ternopil killed over 1,000 people. Andrew Makrush, head physician of one from the Ternopil hospital believes that only in the Ternopil killed over 1000 people.[

en.wikipedia.org...

Pneumonic plague can be viral also. Like SARS, Marburg. These plus a few more virus are listed in my MicroBio book.
Doctors here said the strongest antibacterials are also not effective in the treatment. Most probably its viral.

You guys, I haven't read all of today's posts, but aren't they just calling it the "pneumonic plague" because it's attacking the lungs? Have they really gotten confirmation that it is Y. pestis?

Ok, here's the deal: H1N1 is a virus.

True pneumonic plague (Y. pestis) is a bacterial, caused by the bacteria Y. pestis, which comes from mice/rats, which is transmitted by fleas. I highly doubt it's the plague, unless someone has committed a bioterrorist act.

If it is Y. pestis, you use antibiotics. If it is the virus, you use antivirals. So, no....someone asked if tamiflu would work against pneumonic plague, the answer is no. But I don't think it's "the plague"....I think they're just calling it the plague because of how badly it's spreading.

If it's truly Y. pestis, you'll want to treat it with a course of antibotics in the fluoroquinolone class, such as Ciprofloxacin, levofloxacin, etc..

Here's a good summary of an article I found online:

In summary, compared to streptomycin, the most effective of the antibiotics tested in this murine model of pneumonic plague were ciprofloxacin, ofloxacin, and netilmicin. These three antibiotics were equivalent to streptomycin for both early (initiated 24 h after infection) and late (initiated 42 h after infection) treatment. Gentamicin was superior to streptomycin in a single instance, but only when the high dose was used for late treatment. The beta-lactam antibiotics exhibited paradoxical efficacy, as some were effective when started early but none were effective when started late. Based upon these studies, ciprofloxacin, ofloxacin, netilmicin, and gentamicin offer promise as alternatives to streptomycin for the treatment of human pneumonic plague, while the penicillins, cephalosporins, and the monocyclic beta-lactam aztreonam cannot be recommended.

Source:

aac.asm.org...

However....don't jump the gun and start taking antibiotics!! Those drugs are already encountering serious, serious resistance problems. So, I recommend to just stay indoors, keep washing your hands, wear a mask (or a handkerchief) if you go outside, take some echinacea, keep warm, and wait for it to pass. Don't jump the gun and start taking antibiotics.

I highly doubt they were spraying pneumonic plague over the city.....and I don't think the Ukraine has a pest problem like they did back in the middle ages, which is what caused the plague to be spread.

reply to post by nikiano


In early reports Pneumonic plague is mentioned.. even so that does not mean it is not H1N1 or that it is Pneumonic plague.

It's been put on the table... and considering the Pneumonic plague that swept Ziketan, near Xinghai in Qinghai province China a couple of months ago keeps it on the table in my mind.

We have been told over and over that shutting down a country to deal with an H1N1 outbreak doesn't work.. we are also told that masks are useless.. both however are being considered in this instance and are actually pratical in dealing with a plague like outbreak.

From the bits and pieces in the reports, disinfecting streets/stations is the same approach used in Ziketan to deal with the Pneumonic plague..

Not forgetting that an AQ base in Algeira was wiped out earlier this year, and it is believed becuase they were playing with bubonic plague as a bio-weapon.. source

And this is not always about flea bites... given that once the plague bacteira make it way to the lungs it can turn in to the contagious Pneumonic plague, at which it has left the flea/rat/human transference cycle behind.

There is a lot of miss information/lack of information at the moment, but as faar as I am aware/concerned a plague like outbreak has not been taken off the table.. However I really hope it is..

Edit to add AQ Source and some typos



[edit on 1/11/09 by thoughtsfull]

Ok, just took some photos from my 3rd floor window of my hostel. These area of the pic are usually filled with people, mostly students and couples in any normal day. But as you can see today no one can be seen. Even the hostel staircase are all empty...

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/02b4b4312c66.jpg[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/651bb4857ce9.jpg[/atsimg]

Damn the photos were cropped...

Here are the links-Link1

Link 2
[edit on 1/11/09 by asen_y2k]

[edit on 1/11/09 by asen_y2k]

55 are reportedly died of Swine Flu in Ukraine, cannot locate any information on these significantly large scale deaths.

The temperature inside the lungs gets raised to 55 degrees....

The vaccine probably only makes you more vulnerable to this unknown decease.


[edit on 1-11-2009 by Copernicus]

reply to post by thoughtsfull


Just a thought... but what if... another agency introduced the plague into the Algerian al-Qaeda terrorist training camps?

As a "security source" admits in your linked article....
"This is the deadliest weapon yet in the war against terror. Most of the terrorists do not have the basic medical supplies needed to treat the disease."

Looking at things from that angle could imply a precedent for utilising plague as a bio-weapon?

P.S. Wasn't the Arctic Sea heading for Algeria?

From an "official" source...

hisz.rsoe.hu...

Situation Update No. 8
On 01.11.2009 at 03:02 GMT+2

Ukraine’s swine flu epidemic is spreading at an alarming rate. The number of deaths has risen to nearly 50. President Viktor Yushchenko made the announcement, having put the number of victims at 11 just 24 hours earlier. The latest figures suggest 150,000 are sick with H1N1. Schools, universities and playgroups have been closed for the next three weeks. Mass gatherings have also been banned. Panic buying of masks and flu remedies is sweeping the country according to local media reports. The government also announced an emergency package of 40 million euros to go towards anti-swine flu measures. One woman queuing for medicine said: “What can I say? There is no medicine in the chemists. How come nobody prepared for this epidemic? Children are sick. The elderly are sick. There are no masks, not even basic pills. People are queuing and waiting for supplies to come, but nobody knows if they will come or not.” The price of flu medicines rose by as much as 300 per cent in Ukraine during the previous bird flu outbreak.

Then this was added:

Situation Update No. 9
On 01.11.2009 at 03:48 GMT+2

More than 80,000 people in the swine flu outbreak area had registered with authorities as displaying possible flu symptoms, but because of the similarity of swine flu symptoms to those of common flu, health workers were struggling to estimate the extent of the swine flu's spread, Kniazevych said.

The government would pay particular attention to medical supply retailers, to head off artificial goods shortages and price gouging, she said, in comments reported by the Unian news agency. Retail price spikes of as much as 300 per cent for cold and flu remedies have taken place in recent years in Ukraine, during avian flu outbreaks. Tymoshenko claimed privately-operated chemists in the country were "absolutely supplied in full volume with all necessary medical supplies," contradicting spot reports of shortages.

Trains operated by the national railroad Ukrzhelesnitsiya were running according to schedule, but staff were ordered to wear surgical masks, and instructed to report passengers who appear to have flu symptoms. Medical personnel aboard "every passenger train" were available to provide first aid to potential flu sufferers, and would report people treated to the Health Ministry, according to statement on the Ukrzhelesnitsiya website. Traffic in Ukrainian airports and intercity highways meanwhile appeared to be at normal levels despite a call by Tymoshenko for Ukrainians to avoid long-distance travel if possible. Traffic police and airport security personnel have been briefed to screen travellers visually, Tymoshenko said.

[edit on 1/11/2009 by Iamonlyhuman]

Ukraine, train disinfection commando in action:



[edit on 1-11-2009 by ahemot]

The bacterium Yersinia pestis is relativitly easy to identify in a moderately good lab. 30 years ago in collage we were doing the microscope work with the proper stains that would allow us to get a close identification. Frankly it would be a good thing (for the world not the Ukrane) if this were Yersinia pestis as it would be easy to take care compared to a mutated N1H1 or an air born hemeragic virus with high communicability.

The samples were sent to England for conformation as that is one of the labs that the WHO uses for conformation. The way that the WHO has things set up only lab confirmed cases of N1H1 are reported as fatalities from the virus. That mean that a lot of other people who can not be confirmed are listed as having died from another cause. The quick test for the N1H1 is specific for the strain of the virus that has been making the rounds. This test also requires a high viral load to confirm as there have been a large number of false negatives with the test.

Originally posted by Copernicus

The temperature inside the lungs gets raised to 55 degrees....

The vaccine probably only makes you more vulnerable to this unknown decease.


[edit on 1-11-2009 by Copernicus]

Hope this wakes up the western media to our dire situation here....

reply to post by Gordi The Drummer


The AQ article stuck in my mind, and then the Artic sea and now this.. It feels there is an interconnection there, but I have no idea what..

I hope it is Plague over mutated H1N1 since Porton Down in conjunction with USA and Canada have a vaccine and anti-biotics to deal with an outbreak.. but the approach in Ukraine does feel like it is more along the lines of containment..

Still odd that COBR was iniated this week, given that it is the civil contingencies committee (Thats on my list of odd things happening)

reply to post by asen_y2k


Asen, how are you and your fellow hostel compatriots doing?

Have you heard back from your Embassy? hope you hear soon.

reply to post by gusan


Hey,

Sorry for late answer. Am ill as well and finally had some sleep.

No, I'm not questioning the OP entirely. But it just happens to clash with information that I got. When it's one's voice against ten, though I have to admit I do not know those who wrote to various forums from ground z where I was getting that information, I tend to go towards the ten especially if that small media coverage we have had supports it.

So, am not calling OP an lier, but you can see things in wrong light, you can panic, rumors get snowball effect easily in situations where you panic. I just want to know the truth and I don't want to go for every rumor before there is something to back it up because let's face it. Serious claims which I reallly hope to be just false alarm for the sake of us all.

By all means, if you feel am working while posting these comments, feel that way I can't blame you. To be honest I'm feeling someone else here is working as well so I can understand it completely. But I guess we will have to wait and see what is the answer in the end.

Don't we know no that the death toll is at at least 1500, so why are people still saying it's only at 50?