Eating Animals is Making us Sick

Originally posted by Rawhemp

Originally posted by norman619


I hope you aren't seriously claiming the Bonobo are close to being human. That small genetic differance is a BIG difference. It's what makes them Bonobo and not Human. Our nutritional needs are very different. Our body chemistry is very different. How close we are genetically only tells you we likely have a close common ancestor but that is about it.

True our bodies require sugar to function snce it is the essential fuel which powers us. To maintain our circulatory system our bodies require cholesterol. Our veins are made up of the stuff. What is the only source of the cholesterol we need? Animal flesh. Our nervous system requires among other things B12 to main it in proper working order. B12 is naturally only found in meat. No combination of plants on Earth can provide our bodies with all the nutrients we need to live.

They're as close as you can get to human beings, nothing comes closer. Our nutritional needs are not different at all, he have essentially the same nutrient requirements...

Still waiting for evidence on anything you say, your whole entire second paraghraph is nothing but speculation and has almost no basis in fact(excpet in your whacked out head). B12 is naturally found in a lot of things, it doesn't come from meat its comes from bacteria.. Meat eaters are more likely to be deficient in b12 then vegans, what does that tell you? A lot of combination's of plants provide all sources of nutrients, no one can argue this fact.

So again let me ask you for any type of proof of anything you say?

B12 is found in Animal products not plants. Show me a plant that is an excellent natural source of B12 for humans. No such plant exists. Here are a coupe links for you to educate yourself:

holistic-nutrition.suite101.com...

www.biblelife.org...

From the 2nd link:

"Vitamin Deficiencies:

Numerous studies confirm that vegans who do not supplement their diets with vitamin B-12 are at definite risk for deficiency of vitamin B12. The effects of vitamin B-12 deficiencies may appear as soon as 6 months after adopting a purely plant-based diet, or may not appear following consumption of an exclusively vegan diet for 10 years or more.

Vitamin A deficiency:

Vitamin A one of the fat soluble vitamins. The other two are vitamins D and K. A person who restricts themselves to a low-fat vegetarian diet are putting themselves at risk for a deficiency in all of these vitamins.

Vitamin B-12 deficiencies:

Vitamin B12 deficiency has numerous negative consequences for health:

Artery Damage:

When vitamin B12 levels fall, homocysteine levels in the blood begin to rise. Homocysteine is a waste product of the metabolism of the amino acid, methionine. Elevated levels of homocysteine can damage the inner surfaces of arteries and in doing so promote deposition of cholesterol plaques - thus elevating the risk of heart attacks and strokes.

Neurological Damage:

Peripheral nerves – numbness and tingling and burning sensation in extremities and profound muscular fatigue.

Spinal cord injury – a serious form - subacute combined degeneration - may cause paralysis and be irreversible.

Other neurological hazards of vitamin B12 deficiency: dementia and depression in adults.

Risks to children:

If mother is B-12 deficient while pregnant: birth defects.

If mother is B-12 deficient while breastfeeding: nerve and brain damage, poor weight gain and “failure to thrive syndrome.”

If child is B-12 deficient during infancy and adolescence: impaired intellectual function impairment.

A truly vegetatian diet is unhelathy w/o the taking of suppliments. If you were forced to live on one in the wild (outside of civilization) you would eventually die due to malnourishment. We are Omnivores for a reason.

Originally posted by Divinorumus

Originally posted by mr-lizard
Yet she ate fish and meat. Is she a murderer?

Technically yes. You don't have to be the one that murders to still be guilty.
Asking someone else to kill you something to eat for a fee doesn't get you off the hook. Why don't you eat humons and keep this lust for the taste of flesh and blood among yourselves? It's hypocritical and wicked to think it's okay to kill a disadvantaged and weaker species just to satisfy your taste for death.

It's wicked for you to claim my lovely grandmother was a murderer just because she ate fish and meat.

Why don't you go chew some factory processed soy and contribute to the deforestisation and deaths of many natural inhabitats of the rainforests as you keep riding your desperate attempt to appear somehow morally superior to me and anyone else you may or may not have been boring on this thread.

Why would i even want to eat human flesh? You seem to be confusing omnivorous activities with cannibalism and therefore i refuse to engage in any further dialogue with you.

Not because you have illogical, evil and wretchedly biased opinions about people's grandmothers' eating habits, but for the fact you need to pull your head from whatever orifice it may be lurking in and realise that you are nothing but a dietary fascist with a very naive view of the world.

Climb off your pseudo-spirititual high horse and get a bloody grip.

The idea that is NOT healthy to NOT eat meat is completely ridiculous...

It is possible to be healthy AND eat meat, but there is certainly nothing healthy about eating meat that can not be replaced by something else.

I don't believe it is immoral to eat meat, but I do believe the way we treat factory farmed animals is evil and causes a lot of health problems.

Originally posted by Rawhemp
By the way how is University of Berkley biased?

Seriously!? Or is that meant sarcastically... Wait a minute, you ARE serious! No really... I just can't stop laughing I think I just pissed myself! That's about the most profound question that I believe has ever been seriously posed to me - EVER! The sheer audacity of the question itself provides its own answer. "How is the University of Berkley biased?" Well, uncookeddope - there are so many different ways that they are biased I couldn't even begin counting. I believe the answer is Graham's Number or a Googol!

Originally posted by Rawhemp
reply to post by DevolutionEvolvd

 

Your post is misleading and ignorant, you need carbs for exercise. Ever tried doing long endurance based exercises on nothing but fats and protein? You hit the wall, very fast. Humans are athletic creatures, our bodies are designed for long endurance feats(trekking the Savannah).

Easy with the accusations. We weren't discussing sports nutrition, were we?

For intense exercise, such as sprinting and interval weight traning, carbohydrates will be needed. For endurance, low-intesnsity/long distance jogging, the body prefers fat. In fact, the skeletal muscles and heart prefer fat as fuel while the brain and nervous system relies on glucose. That glucose can be manufactured in the body.

Most physiologists will also agree that, under normal, non-exercise conditions, the body burns mostly fat.

Yes, humans are very athletic. And yes, I understand sports nutrition as well. Eating carbohydrates(complex, unprocessed) post-workout is great. Drinking quick releasing sugars(dextrose) during workouts also improve performance and recovery.

But, we're not discussing sports nutrition.

Are you really so sure that long distance/low-intensity running is healthy?

A study snuck by a year ago and no one noticed, except a Radiologist:

Cardio May Cause Heart Disease

So in the Breuckmann study, they recruited 102 active marathon runners. To be a marathon runner (and presumably to maximize their power to show how healthy “cardio” is) required at least 5 marathons in the past 3 years. Many had run dozens or more in their lifetime. Anyone with a known history of heart disease or diabetes was excluded. The average age was 57 with age 50-72. The median number of marathons was 20. Weekly mileage was 35 (55km). Mean work was 4700 METs per week.

That's the design.....and the conclusion:

Would you believe 12% of asymptomatic marathon runners had evidence of myocardial damage on LGE?

Would you believe that among the sedentary controls only 4% had abnormal LGE?

Though, according to research standards, the results were not "statistically significant," however, it was only a few percentage ponts off. And, combined with other papers, such as this one, and marathoners runners croaking at the finish lines left and right, I think the jury is still out.

Sailors got scurvy on a high carb based diet?

Vitamin C can cure scurvy, indeed. However, to say that a lack of Vitamin C causes scurvy is quite a jump, especially considering the observations of Vilhjalmur Stefansson who lived with and ate the diet of Inuits(consisting of almost 100% meat and fish). The Inuits had no incidence of Scurvy(or any other disease of civilization, including obesity).

All of the aforementioned deficiency diseases were cured, in the laboratory, using a high fat, high protein, low-carbohydrate diet. Why are we then told to eat lots of fruits and vegetables to avoid such diseases?

It seems that you're so damn sure you're right that you ignore any evidence to the contrary. Rawhemp, that's called willful ignorance. And it's not good for you or anyone reading your posts.

REF:

Hultman, E; Harris, RC; Spriet, LL; Work and Exercise; 1994; IN: Shils ME; Olson, JA; Shike, M; Modern Nutrition in Health and Disease; 1994; Lea & Febiger, Malvern, PA.

Flatt, JP; 1992; The Biochemistry of Energy Expenditure; IN: Bjorntorp, P; Brodoff, BN; eds; 1992; Obesity; JB Lippincott, Co, Philadelphia.

Flatt, JP; 1988; Importance of nutrient balance in body weight regulation; Diabetes Metab Rev 4:571.

reply to post by Divinorumus


Divinorumus *or really any of the "meat is murder" cheering squad*, you are avoiding a very key question, repeatedly now. Though I suspect I know why. But at anyrate allow me to ask it again.

Do you classify carnivorous animals as murderers?

reply to post by kozmo


The short answer would be. "Just as biased as any other segment of the population." which means anywhere from a little to a lot. I figured I'd help out.

reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows


Good question.

I always equate militant vegans with fox hunters.

Militant vegans hate the fact that i like chicken and begin a campaign of animosity towards omnivores.

Fox hunters hate the fact that foxes like chicken and begin a campaign of animosity towards foxes.

reply to post by mr-lizard


I always equate them with.... well, for the sake of decorum, I will just say VERY unrealistic people. From the simple seemingly inability to comprehend how nature works to the special pedistal they seem to place humanity upon with their unrealistic viewpoint they hold to like a drowning manholds to a peice of driftwood. Childhood trauma from watching Bambi's mom die is the cause perhaps?

And let’s just pan out how unrealistic the proposition is shall we? Let’s just say, sake of argument, that we abolish all meat eating tendencies of the human animal tomorrow shall we? What would be the implications of this?
Millions of ranchers and people who work in the various aspects of meat production will be without a job. But we shall focus on the ranchers shall we? What will those ranchers do with the millions of cattle, chickens and etc that they raised? Government subsidies to continue raising them for no purpose except to take care of the animals perhaps? From a government that is already DEEPLY in the red? Not likely AT ALL. Slaughter them all? No wait, that’d be murder right? And genocide perhaps? Release said animals into nature? You do realize what exactly this entails right? Millions upon millions of animals that have been sheltered and fed by mankind FOR GENERATIONS being suddenly dumped into nature? Most will die. Simple as that. If not from predatory animals, then most likely over grazing and starvation that entails.
This has two aspects and possibilities, but first we shall look at the first one. Over grazing which means habitat destruction for the animals that live there naturally. That’s right, deer *like Bambi* and etc WILL DIE OF STARVATION. Ending most likely in ecological collapse.
The second possibility and in my mind the less likely. The excess easily killed prey leads to a spike in whatever natural predators which gorge themselves on the easily available game and increase in numbers as they do in such situations. When this source runs out, they get hungry, and start looking at stray humans, like say children as a food source. This is of course once they exhaust natural food sources.
But of course it will most likely be a combination of both situations I mentioned above……. But, like I said, NOT VERY BLEEDING REALISTIC OF YOU.

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
reply to post by Divinorumus

 

Divinorumus *or really any of the "meat is murder" cheering squad*, you are avoiding a very key question, repeatedly now. Though I suspect I know why. But at anyrate allow me to ask it again.

Do you classify carnivorous animals as murderers?

Yes of course they are murderers...

They are natural born killers, however they respect their prey and they are a lot more "humane" than we are to the animals we eat.

I don't believe there is anything intrinsically immoral with eating another animal because it is natural.

BUT, what we do to factory farmed animals is NOT natural.

We don't chase them down in the wild, we steal their entire life.

It really is evil.

The negative energy we put into these animals must have an effect on us...

We have the potential to benefit from animals AND treat them well.

reply to post by Jezus
The angry soy beans have done much worse to me than the angry animals I have eaten. However animals can be slaughtered ,humanely, economically ,and effeciently.

Telling people with underfunctioning thyroids, and celiac disease to eat vegetable protien is like telling them to jump off a cliff. I'll say a prayer for the animals I eat ,knowing that without them I would be weaker.

this thread has gotten way off track.
yes i still consider myself a better human becasue i dont consume flesh, yes i consider you all practicly cavemen for continuing to eat flesh, yes factory farms breed disease because the animals live in filth, and no other animals that eat meat are not murderers as they dont have supermarkets filled with plenty of healthy cheap cruelty free alternatives liek humans do.,
dont lie to yourself, your choosing to do waht you do, same as i am.
the only difference is i care aobut the well being of animals, you jsut care about your taste buds and the immediate 3 feet surrounding your face.

Eating animals is one thing, but in China it seems they eat Babies.
I don't know if will make you sick ( made me sick ) but from a nutritonal stand point it might be good, think I will pass.

Here is link, I got from another thread cooked baby, don't view if you don't want to see how the Chinese server up baby.
www.click.ro...

Originally posted by Rawhemp

Originally posted by HunkaHunka


Alan Watts mused that we all have to kill to live on this planet... but we it's how that is integrated into our lives which determines the effects on us all.

This is false, meat is not needed in any way shape or form. Humans only need 2-5% of there food intake to be protein based. Over eating of protein is the main cause for just about every disease and sickness out there today. The fact that most meat comes from unsanitary factory farms should really turn you off to this whole meat eating culture.



My solution to the problem? Plant mass amount of date trees, they contain every macronutrient and micronutrient in almost perfect proportions and they are the most calorie dense foodstuffs on earth!!!!

I got chronically ill on vegetarian diet (5 years) lost my hair and teeth, its fake idea like vaccines. Vegetables yes, but tons of bread and sugar instead of meat is a disaster diet. Dates are ok but eating them 24/7 is a road to diabetes .

Originally posted by STFUPPERCUTTER
dont lie to yourself, your choosing to do waht you do, same as i am.
the only difference is i care aobut the well being of animals, you jsut care about your taste buds and the immediate 3 feet surrounding your face.

Are you that dense? And can these accusations stop?

I don't know who you were addressing, but I don't consume meat solely for my tastebuds. And what the hell does, "three feet surrounding your face" mean?

I eat meat because it's healthy. Yes, it tastes good, but if I wanted to eat foods based simply on it's taste, I would eat nothing but processed carbs. Unfortunately, that's a fast-track to death.

On a side note:

Factory farms are inhumane, so you say, and yet there are organizations that regulate, nit-picking at times, to the bone. Would you rather the animals be hunted? Ok, have seen a deer that has been shot with a bow or a rifle?

Inhumane, you say? Have you seen how a lioness kills its prey? Many times, the poor animal being hunted suffers for hours, while the preditor feeds upon it......still alive.

Can we live on a carbohydrate rich diet? Yes. Healthily? No. Or so the evidence suggests.

Once again, I'll point at that agriculture "murders" whole ecosystems. Are you vego's growing your own vegetables/fruits?

To stay on topic: If animals are making us sick, please provide me with the randomized, controlled studies suggesting high-carb diets are superior to low-carb diets in all aspects of health, including, but not limited to, diabetes, heart disease, obesity and cancer.

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows

Do you classify carnivorous animals as murderers?

Do you classify yourself as dumb as the animals that live the woods and no better than them?

Killing is murder, PERIOD! If you all feel it's okay to murder and eat other life forms, devouring their flesh and blood, well then I should be able to start killing humans and feeding them to my cats ... unless carnivorous are, in addition to being murderers in denial, are also a bunch of dumb ass hypocrites in denial. This whole planet is filled with hypocrites. Hypocrite vampires, ha.

These comparison that "other animals eat meat" ain't painting you vampires in a positive light, all that does is make you all seem as dumb as them animals you are comparing yourselves too.

We all makes choices, and I choose not to eat a diet of death. And, there is nothing wrong or unhealthy with a vegan diet, and anyone that says so either hasn't done any research on the topic, or they are just trying to justify their consumption of death, flesh, and blood.

I hope karma is real, I really do. Failing that, I hope reptilians from space come and EAT ya'll and pickle your babies.

[edit on 4-11-2009 by Divinorumus]

wow... based on many comments here it seems many people here have no idea that fish are made of meat. Fish are marine animals. You eat fish then you are eating meat.

Originally posted by Jezus
The idea that is NOT healthy to NOT eat meat is completely ridiculous...

It is possible to be healthy AND eat meat, but there is certainly nothing healthy about eating meat that can not be replaced by something else.

I don't believe it is immoral to eat meat, but I do believe the way we treat factory farmed animals is evil and causes a lot of health problems.

What a load of crap. Where I chose to obtain the vital nutrients my body needs, be it plant or animal, has nothing to do with how healthy I am. You simply need to eat a balanced diet and exercise regularly. The BS people are passing around in here as good nutritional information is hilarious. If you get all worked up about eating animal flesh then don't eat it and take suppliments. But keep in mind the best way to get your essential nutrients if from the food you eat not a pill. We are omnivores not carnivores or herbivores. Modern technology allows you to pretend you are anything but an omnivore but strip away the technology and nature will remind you of what you are or you will simply die.

Originally posted by norman619
You eat fish then you are eating meat.

Rats are meat too. Hey, murderous vampires, why not eat rats instead, it's all meat, and rats would be more suitable for ya'll anyhow, ha. I think I'm gonna find some rat in put it in some vampires burger this week, ha ha ha.