Eating Animals is Making us Sick

Originally posted by STFUPPERCUTTER

uhhh what?>
forget fora second its a cheesburger or a wing, YOUR EATING CORPSES.
how come that doesnt register as a problem for you?

Not at all, considering we've evolved eating a diet consisting of meat, meat....and meat. Maybe nuts and seeds...and an occasional fruit/vegetable.

And NO, it's not a corpse. It's not a problem because I understand that agriculture kills more life than does farming/hunting for food. And, because I understand that eating a diet that consists of meat is absolutely healthy/essential.

You can use all the bible quotes and imaginary "papers' you want, but the truth is.....you're wrong. If you'd like...I'll spend a whole day explaining this to you. Just tell me...would you like Epidemiological evidence? Clinical Evidence? A corroboration of both? Or even mythological evidence(like the bible)? You name it. I shall provide.

Becuase....for every study you can find that "PROVES" your hypothesis/claim, I'll find at least 2.

You really should stop. You're arguing a point without any actual evidence. I should alert a mod to have your posts placed in the HOAX/Skunkworks forum........

-Dev

Originally posted by Rawhemp

Originally posted by HunkaHunka


Alan Watts mused that we all have to kill to live on this planet... but we it's how that is integrated into our lives which determines the effects on us all.

This is false, meat is not needed in any way shape or form. Humans only need 2-5% of there food intake to be protein based. Over eating of protein is the main cause for just about every disease and sickness out there today. The fact that most meat comes from unsanitary factory farms should really turn you off to this whole meat eating culture.


My solution to the problem? Plant mass amount of date trees, they contain every macronutrient and micronutrient in almost perfect proportions and they are the most calorie dense foodstuffs on earth!!!!

What do you propose to do with all those people suffering from the genetic mutation/disorder known as Diabetes?

Type I's can probably work something out.

Type 2's...not so much. The thought of consuming nothing but sugar/carbs for every meal frightens me: you limit your carb intake, but that also limits your caloric intake. There's never a proper balance. The end result is starvation. Then you get into Syndrome X (metabolic syndrome).

So you see, it's not as easy as you thought.

Diabetes was a genetic mutation which kept people alive during times of famine.

Further- do you believe we'll all just eat dates forever?

Originally posted by Meesterjojo

Type 2's...not so much. The thought of consuming nothing but sugar/carbs for every meal frightens me: you limit your carb intake, but that also limits your caloric intake. There's never a proper balance. The end result is starvation. Then you get into Syndrome X (metabolic syndrome).

So you see, it's not as easy as you thought.

Diabetes was a genetic mutation which kept people alive during times of famine.

Further- do you believe we'll all just eat dates forever?

here's the problem with your scenario, pure whole fruit doesn't cause diabetes, never has, never will.

[edit on 1-11-2009 by Rawhemp]

Originally posted by DevolutionEvolvd


Not at all, considering we've evolved eating a diet consisting of meat, meat....and meat. Maybe nuts and seeds...and an occasional fruit/vegetable.

According to who? We evolved from frugivoreous primates, our closest ancestor the bonobo live primarily on fruit with only 1-2% of there diet consisting of animal protein.

Our body's run on sugar, our brain won't function right without sugar, try trekking many many miles a day on nothing but animal protein.

[edit on 1-11-2009 by Rawhemp]

I really do NOT think that eating meat is making us sick !! why ? because of all reasons the first one is that since prehistory, men did eat meat, they did kill animals to eat .... so if this was making us sick I do not understand how we could have made possible an evolution to become modern man ..... they did chase all kind of animals, also fish, and did prepare this on open fire .... kind of BBQ of the past ......
They did not have intelligence about bad fat and good fat ... they just did eat lots of them when available ...
we are their descendants, but the actual problem is we do not have enough condition because we do not have enough physical exercises, we sit there in front of TV, drinking lots of beer, sleeping very badly, eating GMO ( genetic modified food ) and therefor we get sick !!! it's not the meat but it's all the rest of the picture that makes us sick !!! do not mix the whole thing upside down !!
do you really think that in USA you are not becoming very very sick with all those GMO ???? crazy how you do accept GMO poison food ..... GMO should be forbidden everywhere in this world !!!! simply CRAZY food !!

reply to post by gerg357


that is the problem !! what kind of stuff is IN the meat ??? hormones !! antibiotics !! you name it, we put it in and give it to you !!
THAT is the problem, NOT THE MEAT !! I agree that it is somehow a problem the way we kill animals, but that is possible to change in the behaviour of men, but eating meat and fish will always be necessary to human kind.
We just ask for GOOD food, BIO food, not animals from laboratories, not animals with GMO food in their flesh.

Originally posted by Rawhemp

According to who?

The Majority of Anthropologists and Paleontologists. Actual scientists that do actual research without bias, of course, you wouldn't know much about that.

Our body's run on sugar, our brain won't function right without sugar, try trekking many many miles a day on nothing but animal protein.

I guess you missed what I posted. They didn't survive on animal protein alone. They supplemented their diets, depending on location, with fruits and nuts and seeds(that's why their called Hunter-Gatherers). There's also fat in animal meat, you know.

The brain is very adaptive, and when fed a ketogenic diet a person's brain will begin to burn Ketone bodies for fuel. The body only need about 150g of glucose a day to survive. That glucose is not REQUIRED in the diet. Every bit of that 150g can come from stored glycogen and/or protein. Even triglycerides can be used to scavenge a little glucose, though not as efficient as the aforementioned.

Just so you know, triglycerides are 3 fatty acids held together by one glycerol molecule. That glycerol can be used to make........Glucose.

So, the daily requirement for dietary carbohydrates.......is ZERO. Unlike essential fat and protein, there's no such thing as an essential carbohydrate.

-Dev

reply to post by DevolutionEvolvd


Sorry for just jumping in here without reading all the thread but why are we told we should eat more carbs than protein if it's not essential?

btw i'm not saying your'e wrong, i'm just interested as to why we get told what we do? so much conflicting information.

Originally posted by valiant
reply to post by DevolutionEvolvd

 

Sorry for just jumping in here without reading all the thread but why are we told we should eat more carbs than protein if it's not essential?

Just to clarify: there is no such thing as an Essential Carbohydrate. There are, however, Essential Fatty Acids(Fat) and Amino acids(protein). Essential nutrients are simply those of which must be obtained through the diet and cannot be manufactured by the body.

btw i'm not saying your'e wrong, i'm just interested as to why we get told what we do? so much conflicting information.

It's conflicting and very confusing.

So, why are we told we should eat more carbs?

That's a good question, and the answer is just as complicated. There are many different reasons why health authorities advocate a high carb diet; however, there are a few that are touted more than others:

The body requires glucose for fuel. While this is true, what most people don't realize is that the body can manufacture glucose from sources other than the diet, glycogen and protein being the too most efficient.

Limiting carbs will inevitably increase fat intake, and fat is atherogenic, among other things. This is the big one. It's simply a false statement. The idea that fat, or saturated fat, through its effects on cholesterol, will cause heart disease is bunk. It's based mostly on observational evidence and faulty science.

Limiting carbs will inevitably increase protein intake and high protein diets aren't good for the kidneys. This statement is based purely on studies conducted on individuals that had kidney problems and it's a bad assumption that increased protein intake will damage the kidneys in healthy individuals.

Limiting carbs will limit fiber. Two things here: 1 - You can still eat fibrous, water-saturated vegetables(broccoli) and keep carb intake low. 2 - Is fiber really necessary if you're not consuming many carbs? All the hype about fiber was that it is indigestible which allows for more food and less calories, and the other is that it slows the digestion of sugar. So no, it's not really as important as they would have you believe.

Without carbohydrates, deficiency diseases, such as Scurvy, Beriberi, Pellagra and Rickets, would reach pandemic proportions. To be accurate, the studies conducted on these diseases only demonstrated that adding carbohydrates, because of their dense nutrient content, can cure them. Nutritionists then took that and assumed that a LACK of carbohydrates cause these diseases. The Brittish sailors that devoloped Scurvy ate a diet that was almost 100% carbs. Pellagra was associated almost exclusively with corn-rich diets. When the japanese navy had a Beriberi break out, it was shortly after they switched from a diet of vegetables and fish to vegetables, fish and white polished rice.

Hope that answered your question.

-Dev


[edit on 1-11-2009 by DevolutionEvolvd]

reply to post by DevolutionEvolvd



Thanks dev clears it up a little.

I know I couldn't live without meat anyway, and the only veg I eat are carrots,broccoli.

Originally posted by Rawhemp

Originally posted by HunkaHunka


Alan Watts mused that we all have to kill to live on this planet... but we it's how that is integrated into our lives which determines the effects on us all.

This is false, meat is not needed in any way shape or form. Humans only need 2-5% of there food intake to be protein based. Over eating of protein is the main cause for just about every disease and sickness out there today. The fact that most meat comes from unsanitary factory farms should really turn you off to this whole meat eating culture.


My solution to the problem? Plant mass amount of date trees, they contain every macronutrient and micronutrient in almost perfect proportions and they are the most calorie dense foodstuffs on earth!!!!

We are OMNIVORES. This means we need to eat plants and animals to get the nutrients our bodies need to function properly. As for your assertion that eating too much protine is the root cuse of most illness, that's another load of bull. I'd LOVE for you to back that BS up with some reputable scientific studies. I know you can't because there is no data that supports that ignorant claim. There are studies which show the lack of meat in the human diet will lead to nerve damage and death. You are obvioulsly not an expert on this subject so please keep your ignorance to yourself.

reply to post by Rawhemp


People worry about their lives after this one - well, there's no meat eating off planet.
Nor is there such a thing as Loving the Earth while eating her children. I've done tons of shows on the dangers of meat eating, big farma/pharma in our food, along with 15,000 chemicals.
The bottom line - it's your choice - death by fork.

Originally posted by norman619


We are OMNIVORES. This means we need to eat plants and animals to get the nutrients our bodies need to function properly. As for your assertion that eating too much protine is the root cuse of most illness, that's another load of bull. I'd LOVE for you to back that BS up with some reputable scientific studies. I know you can't because there is no data that supports that ignorant claim. There are studies which show the lack of meat in the human diet will lead to nerve damage and death. You are obvioulsly not an expert on this subject so please keep your ignorance to yourself.

Actually it is you who has no evidence to back up your claims that we need animal nutrients, pot meet kettle.

/ydqsqx2

www.animalaid.org.uk...

www.bookpubco.com...

www.greenherbalremedies.com...

www.physorg.com...

www.healthjockey.com...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...






[edit on 3-11-2009 by Rawhemp]

reply to post by DevolutionEvolvd


Your post is misleading and ignorant, you need carbs for exercise. Ever tried doing long endurance based exercises on nothing but fats and protein? You hit the wall, very fast. Humans are athletic creatures, our bodies are designed for long endurance feats(trekking the Savannah).

Sailors got scurvy on a high carb based diet? Maybe because scurvy is caused by vit C deficiency, has nothing to do with carbs.... Just because our bodies can break down fats/prot into carbs does not make it optimal, i don't live my life sub optimally i strive for the best possible.


For anyone who thinks meat is in any way healthy i suggest you pick up a copy of the enzyme factor from your local library. Its written by the top gastrointestinal speciliast in america. He tells you why red meat is one of the most harmful things you can put in your body. Maybe you won't believe me but i don't see how you can disagree with someone who operates on colon cancer patients on a daily basis....

[edit on 3-11-2009 by Rawhemp]

Originally posted by Rawhemp


According to who? We evolved from frugivoreous primates, our closest ancestor the bonobo live primarily on fruit with only 1-2% of there diet consisting of animal protein.

Our body's run on sugar, our brain won't function right without sugar, try trekking many many miles a day on nothing but animal protein.

[edit on 1-11-2009 by Rawhemp]

I hope you aren't seriously claiming the Bonobo are close to being human. That small genetic differance is a BIG difference. It's what makes them Bonobo and not Human. Our nutritional needs are very different. Our body chemistry is very different. How close we are genetically only tells you we likely have a close common ancestor but that is about it.

True our bodies require sugar to function snce it is the essential fuel which powers us. To maintain our circulatory system our bodies require cholesterol. Our veins are made up of the stuff. What is the only source of the cholesterol we need? Animal flesh. Our nervous system requires among other things B12 to main it in proper working order. B12 is naturally only found in meat. No combination of plants on Earth can provide our bodies with all the nutrients we need to live.

Originally posted by norman619


I hope you aren't seriously claiming the Bonobo are close to being human. That small genetic differance is a BIG difference. It's what makes them Bonobo and not Human. Our nutritional needs are very different. Our body chemistry is very different. How close we are genetically only tells you we likely have a close common ancestor but that is about it.

True our bodies require sugar to function snce it is the essential fuel which powers us. To maintain our circulatory system our bodies require cholesterol. Our veins are made up of the stuff. What is the only source of the cholesterol we need? Animal flesh. Our nervous system requires among other things B12 to main it in proper working order. B12 is naturally only found in meat. No combination of plants on Earth can provide our bodies with all the nutrients we need to live.

They're as close as you can get to human beings, nothing comes closer. Our nutritional needs are not different at all, he have essentially the same nutrient requirements...

Still waiting for evidence on anything you say, your whole entire second paraghraph is nothing but speculation and has almost no basis in fact(excpet in your whacked out head). B12 is naturally found in a lot of things, it doesn't come from meat its comes from bacteria.. Meat eaters are more likely to be deficient in b12 then vegans, what does that tell you? A lot of combination's of plants provide all sources of nutrients, no one can argue this fact.

So again let me ask you for any type of proof of anything you say?

link won't work, its second link down in this google serach

/ya9aoka

very informative pdf

[edit on 3-11-2009 by Rawhemp]

[edit on 3-11-2009 by Rawhemp]

[edit on 3-11-2009 by Rawhemp]

reply to post by Rawhemp


SWEEEEEEEEET! More links to highly biased sources!

Look pal, ALL PRIMATES (Of which we can be included) REQUIRE ANIMAL PROTEIN - PERIOD!!! Why do you think you vegans have to take all of those vitamins and eat pounds of crap like soy? To ARTIFICIALLY mimick the intake of animal protein. That ends the argument - PERIOD!

There is no amount of BS rationailizing, quoting of biased, brainwashed, new-age hippy vegans that will change this very basic human fact. There is no level of arrogance or superiority or "Spritual enlightenment" that will change this fact either. So, why not just jump down off that high-horse of yours and just acknowledge that you DON'T LIKE to eat meat and be done with it. All of this other side-show nonsense that you're spewing makes you look: a.) Silly b.) Misinformed c.) Arrogant and, of course, the right answer... d.) All of the above!

Now to shred this stupid myth that we are eating "Corpses"... Do you know what a corpse is? It is a dead body! I do not eat dead bodies. I have yet to meet a meat eater, save Jeffrey Dahmer, that ate corpses. I do, however, eat the muscle tissue of animals, better known at MEAT! Do you not eat dead organisms??? Is that tofu patty alive??? Oh, it was once... as a nice little soya plant living happily in the sun long before it was ripped from the ground and over-processed. So please drop all of the pretentiousness. You eat what you want and I'll eat what I want.

Originally posted by Azuredrake
I'm not a nutritionist or a biology major or a doctor or a geneticist....so I can't comment on whether or not we "need" meat to survive and be healthy, but I CAN tell you what I know to be unhealthy...and that is our attitude toward food. Humans are the only organisms that I know of to eat out of pure "entertainment".

"Hey Jim, whad'da do this weekend?"
"Aw, you know...took my old lady out to [insert Steakhouse name here] for our anniversary. I tried their 52oz Beltcrusher! ...it was a blast!".

This kind of attitude towards food needs to change. People need to eat less (scientifically proven to lengthen your lifespan), and bring back "responsible" Animal Husbandry.

Whether you eat meat or not....we can all agree that the methodology of it currently sucks.

Methodology? Seriously? What "methodology" exactly?
How we are putting the food in our mouths or the food choices we make or perhaps the manufacture, the shipping, the preparing? Which "methodology" is it?

And whose?


Are you saying I eat poorly?
How would you know?
Are you suggesting regulation?
Who should decide what I eat?
Vegans, vegetarians or meat Eaters?

I am so frikin tired of generalizations from the over opinionated and under knowledgeable it's not even funny. Everyone who doesn't have a degree seems to be an expert on what I need to start doing.

Originally posted by Azuredrake"I'm not a nutritionist or a biology major or a doctor or a geneticist...."

I think that said it all.


Vegans should just SHUT UP.. meat eaters don't bother them.. it should be a two way street. if idiots want to eat the "52 ounce belt buster steak" and die young I say let them thin out the gene pool a little and if pasty white 83 pound vegans want to live a progressive lifestyle, I say fine...

Is anyone else tiring of people telling us what we all need to start doing?


[edit on 3-11-2009 by gormly]

Originally posted by kozmo

Why do you think you vegans have to take all of those vitamins and eat pounds of crap like soy?

Only retards consume those products, i know i don't...


By the way how is University of Berkley biased? i suggest you take a look at the pdf i posted in the pst above yours.