Did the USAF Help pull off 911?

reply to post by rush969

Was an order given to shoot down hijacked aircraft?..............NO.
Was this order given by President Bush?...............................NO
Was there EVER a “stand down” order given?.........................YES.

Could you please provide evidence of this?

I have shown evidence in official historical documents based on facts, to show my previous claims.
I expect the same from you.
Please use reliable sources, thank you.

reply to post by rush969

Show your proof that there was “NO” stand down orders given? I am sure you have plenty of internet links and sources. Your opinions are not facts; perhaps you should do some real research into the 911 events.

How many times do I need to answer your questions? How many times are you going to keep asking the same questions with your own opinions as your answers?

Still waiting?

So. In the other points:

Was an order given to shoot down hijacked aircraft?..............YES.
Was this order given by President Bush?...............................YES.

Was there EVER a “stand down” order given?.........................NO.

Rush969, you brought up the original question and you have failed to bring the truth to the table, I asked you first, how about you providing some answers that I asked you early on this issue? Because you cannot produce, facts & evidences don’t spin your nonsense on me.






[edit on 26-11-2009 by impressme]

Originally posted by impressme
After reading what other pilots had to say and how those planes were flown. It is their opinion that whoever was flying these hijacked planes had to have years of military combat flight experiences, not just a few lessons from a flight instructor on Cessna 172s, and couldn’t even pass the pilots exams much less take off and land a Cessna. The Bush administration really think the American people are complete idiots and cannot think for themselves. That was the arrogances of the Bush administration and the Pentagon.

You're a hoot! Why do you agree with this opinion, yet get your panties in a bunch any time someone else expresses their opinion? Simply because this opinion fits into your grand scheme of things, it's OK, but if the opinion disagrees, you scream at the poster that "opinions aren't facts?"

Originally posted by impressme
The reason I started this thread because I am convinced that a very small group of men in our military in aviation and demolitions pulled of this false flag operation called 911. I believe these men were very loyal to Dick Cheney and we all have enough proof to know that Cheney was running the show on the morning of 911. It has become very clear that Cheney has not answers anyone questions to what happened on 911. Cheney was protected by the rest in the Bush administration.

This statement, by your own rules, is an opinion.

Also, "sources" (to use the term very loosely), like prison planet, Alex Jones, bushstole04 (or whatever it's called), are nothing more than the opinions of the person that runs that site.

reply to post by jerico65


It is like this in my opinion 1+1=2. It is also my opinion that 2+2=4. It is also my opinion that 100,000,001+100,000,001=200,000,002. I can prove the first two equations using apples. The final equation is my opinion based on logic and the accepted rules of mathematics. Try your best to use this example to understand why in my opinion the OS is nonsense and my opinions are based on logic and simple accepted laws of physics (gravity, temperature, etc.).

Get it?

For those interested, the answers to this questions are in the links provided by me on page 11 of this thread

As for impressme:
You still haven´t told us:
1.- Which are the six hidden panic alerts on B757/67 aircraft that weren´t used on 9/11?
2.- How does the software on those same type airplanes over ride pilot error?

Please, impressme, could you answer those simple questions or give us a source for these claims?

[edit on 28-11-2009 by rush969]


[edit on 28-11-2009 by rush969]

Originally posted by impressme
reply to post by jerico65

 

My opinions are based on logic and simple accepted laws of physics (gravity, temperature, etc.).

Get it?

Yes, we get it.
You have your own opinion.
And you also have your personal set of "logic", "physics", "gravity", "temperature", etc...that everyone else has to accept like blind sheep.

What logic, physics, gravity, temp. do you think NIST bases it´s investigations on??

However, this is not the subject matter.
I must insist that you show us proof on the following.
1.- The six hidden panic alerts on B767/57 planes.
2.- How the software on those type planes over rides pilot error.

Also, on the matter of Mr. Cheney, you haven´t shown proof of the "stand down" order.
I have shown historical documents and a video of Mr. Mineta, were we can clearly see, that there was no "stand down" order given by Mr. Cheney.
In fact, what was being discussed both in the video and in the document shown were the "rules of engagement" or "shoot down orders".

Thanks.



[edit on 28-11-2009 by rush969]

Originally posted by impressme
Try your best to use this example to understand why in my opinion the OS is nonsense and my opinions are based on logic and simple accepted laws of physics (gravity, temperature, etc.).

Get it?

Right. Where do the goofy websites you use a "sources" factor in??

Another thing that has been bothering me about this new opinion that you take as the gospel:

Originally posted by impressme
After reading what other pilots had to say and how those planes were flown. It is their opinion that whoever was flying these hijacked planes had to have years of military combat flight experiences, not just a few lessons from a flight instructor on Cessna 172s, and couldn’t even pass the pilots exams much less take off and land a Cessna.

Was this opinion based on pilots that actually had combat experience? I find it difficult to believe. Once a plane is in the air, it "wants" to fly. The WTC was a very large and easy to spot landmark in NYC. It wouldn't take a pilot with "military combat flight experiences" to hit them.

And what am I basing my opinion on? Over 2000 flying hours, and the majority of that in combat.

reply to post by jerico65

And what am I basing my opinion on? Over 2000 flying hours, and the majority of that in combat.

What in your Microsoft flight simulator? What is the fist thing a pilot must do before taken off?

Was this opinion based on pilots that actually had combat experience? I find it difficult to believe.

Yes. You are not a real pilot, if you where you would have never asked the question in the first place.

Right. Where do the goofy websites you use a "sources" factor in??

www.pilotsfor911truth.org...

Do some real research and stop mocking all websites accept the gove.org misinformation that you dearly hang on to.

It wouldn't take a pilot with "military combat flight experiences" to hit them.

Those maneuvers were not done by some caveman with a few hours flying a Cessna 172 or 175. Ever seen a cockpit of a Cessna? Ever seen a cockpit of a Boeing 767? Ever seen a cockpit of a Boeing 757? Why don’t you tell me what is different? Common knowledge tells me a pilot only trained in a Cessna is not familiar with any Boeing period.

reply to post by rush969

Get it?

Yes, we get it.
You have your own opinion.
And you also have your personal set of "logic", "physics", "gravity", "temperature", etc...that everyone else has to accept like blind sheep.

What’s your freaking problem?

That post was to someone else, so why are YOU taking it so emotionally and personal?

reply to post by rush969

As for impressme:
You still haven´t told us:
1.- Which are the six hidden panic alerts on B757/67 aircraft that weren´t used on 9/11?
2.- How does the software on those same type airplanes over ride pilot error?

Please, impressme, could you answer those simple questions or give us a source for these claims?

[edit on 28-11-2009 by rush969]

[edit on 28-11-2009 by rush969]

Perhaps, when you start answering my entire questions that I have repeatedly asked you. Then perhaps I will return you the same courtesy. That’s how it works in a real debate.

Can you provide some proof that this is a true, verifiable, credible, fact because you have only shown Lee Hamilton saying I THINK the president gave the shoot down orders. Obviously Lee Hamilton IS NOT SURE if this is true, that is why he said I think. If Hamilton knew for sure that Bush gave the shoot down orders then he would not have made this assumption that (I THINK) would he?

Still waiting?

If you refuse to try to understand the video and spin it around to fit your own theories, that´s your problem.
Fortunately I´m not trying to convince you of anything.

Talk about “spin” why is it that out of four posts to you from me pointing out what Lee Hamilton saying I THINK. You have not made a single comment about it, why is that?

Still waiting?

Tell you what, find me a video of George Bush saying he ordered the shoot down orders lets see and hear it from his mouth. Then I will believe you.

Still waiting?

I´m trying to stay on topic here, and you go ALL OVER THE PLACE!!!

I am on topic, what’s your point?

Still waiting?

What? Did you not write the below comment? That I was answering you from.


Originally posted by rush969
reply to post by impressme

The following is taken from the 9/11 Commission report:

The protocols did not contemplate an intercept. They assumed the fighter escort would be discreet, "vectored to a position five miles directly behind the hijacked aircraft," where it could perform its mission to monitor the aircraft's flight path.105

In sum, the protocols in place on 9/11 for the FAA and NORAD to respond to a hijacking presumed that:

1.- The hijacked aircraft would be readily identifiable and would not attempt to disappear;
2.- There would be time to address the problem through the appropriate FAA and NORAD chains of command; and
3.- Hijacking would take the traditional form: that is, it would not be a suicide hijacking designed to convert the aircraft into a guided missile.
On the morning of 9/11, the existing protocol was unsuited in every respect for what was about to happen.

govinfo.library.unt.edu...

[edit on 23-11-2009 by rush969]

[edit on 23-11-2009 by rush969]

I´m giving you answers to some questions.
I´m giving you facts that were discussed and cleared by the commission.

You are impossible!!!
I´m trying to stay on topic here, and you go ALL OVER THE PLACE!!!
We are not discussing the 9/11 commission.

It was YOU that brought up the 911 commission report. That is YOUR report right above this post.

These facts where proven lies. Why do you continue to repeat them?

Still waiting?

“Disappointments”, They came out and admitted they lied, the 911 commissionaires admitted the story they told us is NOT the story that the government told them. Enough said. Why support proven lies?

Still waiting?

No proof to your opinions, where were the scrambled fighters? They had an entire hour to intercept those planes. Yet we got nothing.

Still waiting?

Was there a "Stand down order" given?.......NO.
Show your proof that there was “NO” stand down orders given? I am sure you have plenty of internet links and sources. Your opinions are not facts; perhaps you should do some real research into the 911 events.

Still waiting?

Was there an order given to shoot down hijacked airliners?.....YES.
Was this order given by President Bush?......YES.

You and I went round and round on this early because I proved there was no orders giving didn’t I ? In fact, I asked you to present me a video of President Bush stating he gave the orders to shoot down those airplanes and you have not produce anything, nothing.

I am still waiting for your answers to some of MY questions that I have asked you some pages back that you refuse to answer but, you demand that I answer all your questions, while you “avoid and deflect” most of mine. I will be waiting for your reply on all these questions before you and I can move on don’t you agree?

Isn’t that fair?





[edit on 29-11-2009 by impressme]

reply to post by rush969

For those interested, the answers to this questions are in the links provided by me on page 11 of this thread

For those that are interested you will see my rebuttals on page 11 proven rush969 answers are wrong.

reply to post by impressme


I´ll tell you what impressme.
I will answer the 2nd question for you, please fell free to refute my answer.
The sofware on the B767/57 type planes to "help" avoid pilot errors consists of sounds and lights. That is audible and visible alerts.
Electronic voice alerts such as "BANK, BANK". "TERRAIN, TERRAIN", and others, and yellow or red lights that will come on certain instruments or panels.
So, what I´m saying here is, that this software, while it does help the regular pilot with his flying, does NOTHING to discourage or stop the "suicidal terrorist" from achieving his goal, while violating the normal flying envelope that was designed for the plane.

Now, would you please answer:
Which are the six hidden panic alerts that B767/57 have???
Thanks.



PS. By the way, I´m not interested in convincing you of anything.
I´m interested in the other people who will read this.

reply to post by rush969

Now, would you please answer:
Which are the six hidden panic alerts that B767/57 have???
Thanks.

PS. By the way, I´m not interested in convincing you of anything.
I´m interested in the other people who will read this.

I´ll tell you what impressme.
I will answer the 2nd question for you, please fell free to refute my answer.

No! It does not work that way in a real debate answer all of them. You don’t get to cherry pick and ovoid and deflect as you please.


Keep avoiding, and deflecting and throwing in redherrings it will not work with me.

If you continue to play this childish game I will be force to put you on ignore. I dont believe in feeding TROLLS.

Remember, if you state an opinion please state it. Do not assume your or mine opinions are the facts.

Now, Back to main Topic.

Question: how many of you believe the OS is true and what “conclusive scientific evidences” that has convince you that the OS is true, and please post sources and links to back your claim.

In this debate Please lets leave out “opinions as your facts” If you have an opinion then please state it “as your opinion”. Lets be respectful to one another, lets keep this civil please.
Thank you.

[edit on 29-11-2009 by impressme]

It would be nice if a 757/767 pilot would chime in wouldn't it. But then maybe they are sworn to secrecy about the red panic buttons.

The existence of panic buttons proves nothing one way or the other about 9-11.

The military has routinely flown remote control aircraft since at least the end of WW2. Many obsolete aircraft end their days as remotely controlled target drones re-designated as Q aircraft. It is entirely possible that the aircraft were guided into the towers via remote control.

As to the proposition that U. S. military personnel will not sell out their own country, that's patently absurd. To name a few who have: Jonathan Pollard; Navy, Robert Kim, Navy; David Boone, Army; George Trofimoff, Army; John Walker, Navy; all convicted. Saying so does not mean I loath the military.

I have yet to see anything posted that proves the validity of the OS. The OS is, as far as I can see, totally dependent upon testimony, not hard evidence. If there is hard evidence to support the OS I would appreciate someone enlightening me on this.

What hard evidence there is, to my knowledge, is unavailable.

There is a Citgo station southwest of the pentagon. It had a security camera that might well have recorded the attack. But we can't see it. The FBI confiscated that security camera footage from the Citgo within minutes of the attack. Minutes. The govt was surely quick to react to some things on 9-11.

Why did they do that and why can't the public see it?

Source: 911research.wtc7.net...

This in and of itself does not constitute proof that govt was involved, but I use it an example of the numerous strange things that happened that day. It certainly raises questions. There a lot of things about 9-11 that raises questions, and a bunch of unanswered questions naturally raises suspicion.

Until the govt decides to come clean about 9-11, and it certainly hasn't done so yet, all the ridicule and hate in the world is not going to make people stop suspecting that their govt. has lied to them and deceived them.

reply to post by Aircow


Now see, this is one of the problems with the "truth" movement they make statements like this...

There is a Citgo station southwest of the pentagon. It had a security camera that might well have recorded the attack. But we can't see it. The FBI confiscated that security camera footage from the Citgo within minutes of the attack. Minutes. The govt was surely quick to react to some things on 9-11.

That footage was released a couple years ago. It doesnt really show much, because the gas station cameras were pointed at the GAS STATION, not the building on the other side of the highway. One of the cameras did capture a part of a fast moving object (some claim Flight 77's tail, others claim its a tractor trailer on the highway(a really funny looking semi at that)) and then part of the fireball...but thats it.

And yet, about once, every other day or so, someone will post that we have never seen the confiscated security video from the gas station....without bothering to do the research to find out they are wrong in their belief.

reply to post by Swampfox46_1999


Then that site should come down. I don't trust 100% of anything, which is why I said that in and of itself proves nothing. But many questions yet remain.

Just as an afterthought, after the FBI had the footage in it's possession for six years or so, was it ever analyzed by an independent qualified entity? I'm just as suspicious of the on line debunkers as those who are taking advantage of the public's distrust of the govt.

reply to post by Swampfox46_1999

And yet, about once, every other day or so, someone will post that we have never seen the confiscated security video from the gas station....without bothering to do the research to find out they are wrong in their belief.

I believe the posters is entitle to their own opinions without being ridiculed. Do you have anything to add to this OP and I believe my questions is:

Question: how many of you believe the OS is true and what “conclusive scientific evidences” that has convince you that the OS is true, and please post sources and links to back your claim.

In this debate Please lets leave out “opinions as your facts” If you have an opinion then please state it “as your opinion”. Lets be respectful to one another, lets keep this civil please.
Thank you.

reply to post by impressme


LOL it's quite alright, I would not post here if I were afraid someone might laugh at me.

I made a mistake where I shouldn't have, I should have dug a bit deeper.

Originally posted by impressme
What in your Microsoft flight simulator?

Yep, you see right thru me, Craftsman.

Originally posted by impressme
What is the fist thing a pilot must do before taken off?

You mean besides correct your English? Hmmm....lemme think. How about check NOTAMs?? Check weather? File a flight plan? Preflight??

And the point of your question is what? I mean, I'm certain that any answer will be wrong according to you. And how many flying hours do you have?

Originally posted by impressme
Yes. You are not a real pilot, if you where you would have never asked the question in the first place.

Really? So I guess the opinions and experiences of a pilot that has been in combat doesn't matter to the pilotsfor911truth.org, huh? I guess if you ever have to have surgery, you're not going to ask if the doc has had any experience?

So, you're putting stock in an opinion of pilots that have never flown combat, yet are describing what it's takes?

Originally posted by impressme
Do some real research and stop mocking all websites accept the gove.org misinformation that you dearly hang on to.

Yeah, like "bushstole04" or whatever the heck it's called.

Originally posted by impressme
Those maneuvers were not done by some caveman with a few hours flying a Cessna 172 or 175. Ever seen a cockpit of a Cessna? Ever seen a cockpit of a Boeing 767? Ever seen a cockpit of a Boeing 757? Why don’t you tell me what is different?

Really? Wow, they are different? I never knew that. Flight manuals for a 757, 767, etc, aren't available, huh? No way they could have gotten one and familiarized themselves with the systems months before taking control of the aircraft, right??

Ever hear of something called a Dash 1? Do a quick search and get back to me.

Originally posted by impressme
Common knowledge tells me a pilot only trained in a Cessna is not familiar with any Boeing period.

Basic aircraft flight controls haven't changed in years, dude. Your "common knowledge" is lacking. Try again.

reply to post by impressme



Keep avoiding and deflecting. Keep it up. It's really funny.

Rush969 asked two simple questions, but you keep avoiding them:

1.- Which are the six hidden panic alerts on B757/67 aircraft that weren´t used on 9/11?
2.- How does the software on those same type airplanes over ride pilot error?

Now, quick, dig thru this thread and find some question that I didn't answer and DEMAND that I answer it before you dole out your pearls of wisdom for all to see.