Did the USAF Help pull off 911?

reply to post by rush969

We are explaining how people can easily and dependably be
manipulated into thinking, believing and therfore acting certain ways.
Like thinking its normal for the air force to not scramble jets this time only....

If you dont believe this stuff happens, then you have alot of
investigating to do, my friend.
If you insist we can move on however.
Just exploring the whys and wherefores of the OP.
How do you think it happened anyway?
Do you have that on video too?

I posted one earlier that pretty much explained it straight from
the Transportation Secretary's mouth!
You know transportation, as in airplanes?

We already covered it earlier.
If you want I can grab the stand down information for you.
It's pretty easy to find though, if you look hard enough.

What, do we need to get cheney in here too?
(keep your head down)
Just funnin' around...
Sorry if I somehow derailed it....peace.


[edit on 15-11-2009 by dodadoom]

Originally posted by dodadoom
They dropped the ball and stepped out of the way.
Like they were told to.

How else could it happen?

Only my most humble opinion.
Oh, and Norman Mineta the Transportation Secretary,
at the National Commission on Sept. 11th attacks!

In response to a question by Vice Chairman Lee Hamilton.

Well, here we go again.
In this responses, Minetta says he learned about the soot down orders, after the event of the Pentagon.
But he clearly states that he thinks this is the order that the soldier was asking Cheney about.
Does the order still stand? Of course the order still stands. Have you heard anything to the contrary?
Those are the words of the soldier and of Mr. Cheney as recalled by Mr. Minetta.
Later he found out that those orders were.- TO SHOOT DOWN COMERCIAL AIRLINERS BELIEVED TO BE UNDER THE CONTROL OF TERRORISTS.
So it appears that AA77 reached the Pentagon, and UA93 crashed in Shanksville both before they could be reached by the fighters.

Would you agree?

reply to post by rush969

Thanks for the quote and reply!
I agree something crashed into them.
I know jets were not scrambled regardless. Why?
Please provide your proof of your claim.
Thanks.

reply to post by dodadoom


I don´t understand you. The source is the same video you provided.
The video is of Mr. Minetta´s hearing.
He explains the things that I said.
(Check the longer version of the video available in the same source.)
It can be clearly stablished that:
1.- Pres. Bush had given the order to shoot down hijacked planes.
2.- Mr. Minetta didn´t know that at the moment when he was witnessing
the exchange between the soldier and Mr. Cheney.
3.- He found out later, that the order they were talking about was the authorization by the President to shoot the planes down.
4.- The soldier wanted confirmation from Mr. Cheney that the plane approaching the Pentagon (Washington D.C. really) was to be shot down.
5.- The fighter planes had been scrambled to intercept the planes suspected of being hijacks.

reply to post by rush969

Thank you.
If that is the case why was it not shot down then?
They had plenty of time to do it.
How long does it take to scramble a fighter to that area anyway?
About 11 minutes including travel time?
Still doesnt explain this lack of response to a genuine threat.
We'll have to dig up the timeline again on this though.
I have seen it and am aware of it but I am not sure where I read it now.
It is late now my appologies.
I know it smells fishy also....

I'll go back and watch again but I doubt it will make
the OS story any more believable to me.
Seems to me our tax money on these fighters are being wasted
if they can't protect us. Same for the people ordering or flying them.
Just my logic poking through again though!

You obviously have alot of questions, I suggest you look into them.
Many here do as well.
I probably could not give you the holy grail of information anyway.
I am positive nothing I could say would change your mind, I know better.
I have tried that already. So I wont try now.
I would be wasting the time I could be using to better myself.
Sorry. Just the way it is.
I will be back tomorrow nite and check it out, but I'm beat.....g' nite all!




[edit on 16-11-2009 by dodadoom]

reply to post by rush969


Lee Hamilton said “I think” the President orders were to shoot down. ( No Facts!) “I think”, “I think”, “I think”, “I think.” Absolutely no proof if any orders were given to shoot down any aircraft, or who gave any orders, Lee Hamilton said, “I think.” Lee Hamilton is only assuming he "thinks" the President gave the orders, Watch your video again.

1.- Pres. Bush had given the order to shoot down hijacked planes.

Please show proof that these orders where giving by President Bush?

*I think*

3.- He found out later, that the order they were talking about was the authorization by the President to shoot the planes down.

Again, please post some creditable proof to this allegation

4.- The soldier wanted confirmation from Mr. Cheney that the plane approaching the Pentagon (Washington D.C. really) was to be shot down.

We do not know that, you are assuming what those orders are there has been no clarification to what those orders were if you have proof pleas post it. Watch the video you posted again

5.- The fighter planes had been scrambled to intercept the planes suspected of being hijacks.

Really, when, where, by whom, they never show up? No one made any referents in the video to your claim?








[edit on 16-11-2009 by impressme]

Originally posted by dodadoom
reply to post by rush969

 

Thank you.
If that is the case why was it not shot down then?
They had plenty of time to do it.

The problem with all of this is, when you analyze it, after the event and you have all the answers and how most of it could have been avoided.
Of course here we are faced with a terrible gruesome alternative...
Think of the scenario were U.S. fighter jets shoot down american comercial planes filled with innocent american citizens!!!
The tragedy would be something beyond comprehension also.
But when this was happening, nobody knew what was going on.
The jets were scrambled but were sent the wrong way!!!
(Conspiracy here?) Ummm, NO.
The fact is that the procedure at the time was to go out to "defend" from an attack coming from outside the U.S. Not from within.
By the time the fighters were coming back as fast they could, the plane had hit the Pentagon and UA93 had crashed.

How long does it take to scramble a fighter to that area anyway?

Don´t know the exact figure. But depends on many factors. We aren´t talking of just switching the safety off on a gun. First there are procedures and many people to call and confirm what´s going on.
All of this takes precious time. Then you had to get the permission to shoot. This had to be from the President or vicepres. none other.
So you can imagine, this wasn´t an easy fast thing to do.
Of course, after the event, many experts pointed out how much time was lost "finding out" what was going on, and how fighters would have had plenty of time to intercept, shot and destroy the threats in just a few minutes. That´s easy to say when you know what wasn´t known then.

reply to post by rush969

Well if I was one of those who always believe the OS,
I would be asleep right now with the rest of the sheep.
Instead I do this thing called investigating and questioning.
Heres what I found right off the bat. I am sure you will deflect it and
possibly call it some damn fool conspiracy website like others do!

Almost one hundred and thirteen minutes elapsed between the time American Airlines Flight 11 lost contact and was hijacked at 8:13:31 until the time United Airlines Flight 93 crashed in Shanksville, Pennsylvania at 10:06:05. One hour and fifty-three minutes went by and the USAF did not intercept any one of these four "hijacked" airlines. To understand all the rules, regulation and procedures that make this totally impossible to happen, one should read The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) Standard Intercept Procedures

www.the7thfire.com...
I will find more. You can bet on that. Maybe not tonight though

This still doesnt explain the stand down order given and described on the video I provided. Yes, I watched it again.
Couldnt find your video, btw.....could you just post it! Thanks!

This is all speculation on your part like all of us are doing.
Neither does it explain cheneys refusal to testify about it alone.
Or the drill going on about the same scenario at the same time!
Or the lack of standard FAA and Air Force protocol being followed
in only this instance.
You have no proof here of what did or didn't happen!
My guess is your deflecting and making false statements outright
or making irrelevant arguments with no proof of either.

I've seen this tactic before somewhere...But thats just me!
Its only my opinion I could be wrong of course.

If this happened like you say,(and you were there, right? kidding wif ya)
then why no pictures of this actual plane hitting the actual pentagon
like in new york? Lords knows there should be some from somewhere.
Why were pictures confiscated when they could be used as evidence and
as proof to any stray "thinking" skeptics or training and
studying for prevention of future attacks?

Part of that logic thingy bugging me again....
Maybe you can help me understand you?
Do you understand me? Thanks. Nite.

Cheney himself told Tim Russert of NBC on September 16, 2001, only five days later, that from the PEOC “I was in a position to be able to see all the stuff coming in, receive reports and then make decisions in terms of acting with it.”

www.journalof911studies.com...
Now Russert's dead....hmmm, lucky break for cheney.
USA today newspaper clips and memorandum copies of stand down order here:
www.youtube.com...
Also shows a report on the stand down order by Peter Jennings.
Hmmm......he's dead too........hmmmm..........nah

The two hour time delay is suspicious given the Vice President's own account of the dedicated video communications available that morning, as he told it to Tim Russert of Meet the Press on September 16, 2001.

"We had access, secured communications with Air Force One, with the secretary of Defense over in the Pentagon. We had also the secure videoconference that ties together the White House, CIA, State, Justice, Defense--a very useful and valuable facility. We have the counterterrorism task force up on that net. And so I was in a position to be able to see all the stuff coming in, receive reports and then make decisions in terms of acting with it."

www.bushstole04.com...
Speaking of questions, heres about a couple hundred more!
whatreallyhappened.com...

[edit on 16-11-2009 by dodadoom]

reply to post by rush969

But when this was happening, nobody knew what was going on.

You really think that our government who was already spying on the world didn’t have a clue, to what was going on, come on, get real.

All you are doing is making excuses for the government and military, how patriotic of you.

I am proud of our military to but, I am not stupid. We are the Super Power of the World we have ears, and eyes on everything.

The fact is that the procedure at the time was to go out to "defend" from an attack coming from outside the U.S. Not from within.

Do you have a source for this information, or are you just given your “opinion”.

By the time the fighters were coming back as fast they could, the plane had hit the Pentagon and UA93 had crashed.

So, said the Pentagon, who never lies.

Don´t know the exact figure. But depends on many factors. We aren´t talking of just switching the safety off on a gun. First there are procedures and many people to call and confirm what´s going on.
All of this takes precious time.

Fact, is it would have taken only 10 min at the most to scrambled a jet. We do this all the time when airplanes fly off their course, don you agree.




[edit on 16-11-2009 by impressme]

reply to post by dodadoom


This is the video I was talking about:

www.youtube.com...

And, sorry, I said it was a soldier in the exchange with Cheney. Mineta reffers to a young man, so it could be a soldier or a secret service man, or something else.

But you can clearly hear, how Mineta is talking about the "shot down" order that had been issued by the President.
More later. Got to get some sleep.

reply to post by rush969

This is the video I was talking about:

www.youtube.com...

And, sorry, I said it was a soldier in the exchange with Cheney. Mineta reffers to a young man, so it could be a soldier or a secret service man, or something else.

But you can clearly hear, how Mineta is talking about the "shot down" order that had been issued by the President.
More later. Got to get some sleep.

Lee Hamilton said “I think” the President orders were to shoot down. ( No Facts!) “I think”, “I think”, “I think”, “I think.” Absolutely no proof if any orders were given to shoot down any aircraft, or who gave any orders, Lee Hamilton said, “I think.” Lee Hamilton is only assuming he "thinks" the President gave the orders, Watch your video again.

Please do not consider * I THINK* as a fact. You have not provided any facts to the shoot down orders in this video, even Lee Hamilton is not sure that the President gave the shoot down orders or he wouldn’t have said I think. We are looking for facts not “I think”.

Originally posted by dodadoom

This still doesnt explain the stand down order given and described on the video I provided. Yes, I watched it again.

There´s no "stand down order anywhere".

The young man said.- Do the orders still stand?

Cheney sair.- Of course the orders still stand. Have you heard anything to the contrary?

There´s NO STAND DOWN ORDER.

IT´S THE ORDER STILL STANDS.

And the order they were talking about was the shoot down order.

reply to post by impressme


This is unbelievable!!
Somehow what YOU THINK is irrefutable evidence.
What anybody says that thinks different from you is assumptions and opinions.
Also photographs and eyewitness statements are assumptions and opinions.
It´s useless trying to discuss something with you.

The video of Mineta is perfectly clear. The way people talk doesn´t change the fact that:
1.- The order they are discussing is the order to shoot down suspected hijacked planes.
2.- The order had been given by President Bush.

If you refuse to try to understand the video and spin it around to fit your own theories, that´s your problem.
Fortunately I´m not trying to convince you of anything.

reply to post by rush969

This is unbelievable!!

I agree this is unbelievable when a congressional representative states I THINK the President gave the shoot down orders. You think, (I think) is a proven fact.
Tell you what, find me a video of George Bush saying he ordered the shoot down orders lets see and hear it from his mouth. Then I will believe you.

What anybody says that thinks different from you is assumptions and opinions.

Ridiculing me will not help you win your argument.

It´s useless trying to discuss something with you.

Why, because I will not believe in your opinions and your assumtions.

2.- The order had been given by President Bush.

Can you provide some proof that this is a true, verifiable, credible, fact because you have only shown Lee Hamilton saying I THINK the president gave the shoot down orders. Obviously Lee Hamilton IS NOT SURE if this is true, that is why he said I think. If Hamilton knew for sure that Bush gave the shoot down orders then he would not have made this assumption that (I THINK) would he?

If you refuse to try to understand the video and spin it around to fit your own theories, that´s your problem.
Fortunately I´m not trying to convince you of anything.

Talk about “spin” why is it that out of four posts to you from me pointing out what Lee Hamilton saying I THINK. You have not made a single comment about it, why is that?
In fact, you have avoided discussing it altogether and just “ignored” all of my post about it.
And you want to say I am spinning? Looks to me, it is the other way round don’t you think?

reply to post by impressme

Fact, is it would have taken only 10 min at the most to scrambled a jet. We do this all the time when airplanes fly off their course, don you agree

We do? So explain the plane that passed Minneapolis because the pilots werent paying attention. Using your logic, there should have been aircraft scrambled....but there wasn't. Prior to 9/11, we didnt do it all the time. And, it generally took longer than 10 minutes to launch, let alone intercept.

But, okay, you launched in 10 minutes congratulations. Now, what are you going to do without any weapons on board?

reply to post by Swampfox46_1999

Fact, is it would have taken only 10 min at the most to scrambled a jet. We do this all the time when airplanes fly off their course, don you agree

We do? So explain the plane that passed Minneapolis because the pilots werent paying attention. Using your logic, there should have been aircraft scrambled....but there wasn't. Prior to 9/11, we didnt do it all the time. And, it generally took longer than 10 minutes to launch, let alone intercept.

But, okay, you launched in 10 minutes congratulations. Now, what are you going to do without any weapons on board?

We still do not have all the facts to why NORAD didn’t responds to that event. I do agree there should have been planes scrambled. Yet there was not. Besides, 911 this is another case where NORAD has not responded, yet again no one is held accountable in FFA or NORAD why is that? Why even bother to have NORAD if they are not going to do their jobs don’t you agree? What was a NORAD excuse for not dispatching military jets to intervene? Surly they were not doing war games again.

reply to post by impressme

We still do not have all the facts to why NORAD didn’t responds to that event. I do agree there should have been planes scrambled. Yet there was not. Besides, 911 this is another case where NORAD has not responded, yet again no one is held accountable in FFA or NORAD why is that? Why even bother to have NORAD if they are not going to do their jobs don’t you agree? What was a NORAD excuse for not dispatching military jets to intervene? Surly they were not doing war games again.

The FAA was tardy in calling the military. Plus, you still dont get it. You want scalps and you want them from the wrong people. You really want to hold people responsible...then start working to kick out every last Senator and Congressman and replace them with people who DONT like to live in Washington DC

The FAA was tardy in calling the military. Plus, you still dont get it. You want scalps and you want them from the wrong people. You really want to hold people responsible...then start working to kick out every last Senator and Congressman and replace them with people who DONT like to live in Washington DC

The FAA was tardy in calling the military, why was FAA tardy in calling NORAD?

Let’s see now, you want me to kick out every last Senator and Congressman and you want “just me” to replace them with people who don’t like to live in Washington?


What does this have to do with FAA not responding to NORAD?

reply to post by impressme


The following is taken from the 9/11 Commission report:

The protocols did not contemplate an intercept. They assumed the fighter escort would be discreet, "vectored to a position five miles directly behind the hijacked aircraft," where it could perform its mission to monitor the aircraft's flight path.105

In sum, the protocols in place on 9/11 for the FAA and NORAD to respond to a hijacking presumed that:

1.- The hijacked aircraft would be readily identifiable and would not attempt to disappear;
2.- There would be time to address the problem through the appropriate FAA and NORAD chains of command; and
3.- Hijacking would take the traditional form: that is, it would not be a suicide hijacking designed to convert the aircraft into a guided missile.
On the morning of 9/11, the existing protocol was unsuited in every respect for what was about to happen.

govinfo.library.unt.edu...



[edit on 23-11-2009 by rush969]

[edit on 23-11-2009 by rush969]

Originally posted by impressme
reply to post by rush969

 

But when this was happening, nobody knew what was going on.

You really think that our government who was already spying on the world didn’t have a clue, to what was going on, come on, get real.

All you are doing is making excuses for the government and military, how patriotic of you.

I am proud of our military to but, I am not stupid. We are the Super Power of the World we have ears, and eyes on everything.

The fact is that the procedure at the time was to go out to "defend" from an attack coming from outside the U.S. Not from within.

Do you have a source for this information, or are you just given your “opinion”.

From the 9/11 Commission report:

The Langley fighters were heading east, not north, for three reasons. First, unlike a normal scramble order, this order did not include a distance to the target or the target's location. Second, a "generic" flight plan-prepared to get the aircraft airborne and out of local airspace quickly-incorrectly led the Langley fighters to believe they were ordered to fly due east (090) for 60 miles. Third, the lead pilot and local FAA controller incorrectly assumed the flight plan instruction to go "090 for 60" superseded the original scramble order.153

After the 9:36 call to NEADS about the unidentified aircraft a few miles from the White House, the Langley fighters were ordered to Washington, D.C. Controllers at NEADS located an unknown primary radar track, but "it kind of faded" over Washington. The time was 9:38.The Pentagon had been struck by American 77 at 9:37:46.The Langley fighters were about 150 miles away.154

govinfo.library.unt.edu...