You do NOT own your car/truck/SUV!

if i pay cash for my car.. its mine
i dont care what anyone is going to tell me lol

Originally posted by Historical-Mozart



An MSO is a document of ownership, beit a car, boat, motorcycle, whatever and, not only is it proof of your ownership of your vehicle [sic] or vessel [sic], it is also an allodial title, which means that you owe NO ONE any sort of fee, tax, registration, or anything owed to the state whatsoever. You OWN it.

Actually, a "vessel" is your person, your body. You also receive a certificate of title on that also. And having a certificate of title means that...somewhere,,,there is an owner. And it's not you!

Many laws are hard to read and understand because everything is in a maritime code and described in nautical terms. Your "strawman" is a barge. You are the vessel.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
I forgot to mention in my previous post to you the following:

1)I do NOT support the United States of America Corporation

2)I DO support the United States of America

While what I say makes theoretic sense, at this point in time I don't trust the american government to do anything unless its fundamentally flawed from the start...this way they can say "hay we tried but unfortunately it didn't work out so we are going back to the old ways"...

Much like all the pseudo-socialistic programs we currently have!

The problem is not big government! It's that we are mistakingly working for the usa corporation, which is owned by a few elite. This oligarchy is reeping all the profits, while having us believe that they are looking out for our best interests.

The U.S.A. IS NOT a corporation, the U.S. IS the corporation. The capital building and surrounding 10 miles square, federal enclaves, military bases and territories. States are refered to as "Commonwealths", so when you look into the federal code, if it does not specifically state a commonwealth, the statute DOES NOT apply to Americans or to the "union States".

Zip codes MAKE all land or property that use zip codes, Federal Territory. That is where people get mistaken.

No Zip Codes
(Use invokes Federal Jurisdiction)
(Author unknown)
Use of the Zip is voluntary. See Domestic Regulations. Section 122.32 as amended. You should
also know that the Postal service cannot discriminate against the non-use of the Zip Code. See
"Postal Reorganization Act ", Section 403, (Public Law, 91-375). The federal government
utilizes the ZIP code to prove that you reside in a “federal district of the District of Columbia”.
This is why the IRS and other government agencies (state and federal) require a Zip code when
they assert jurisdiction by sending you a letter. They claim that this speeds the mail, but this is a
sly and subtle TRICK. It is also prima facie evidence that you are a subject of Congress and a
"citizen of the District of Columbia " who is "resident " in one of the several states.
The receipt of mail with a ZIP code is one of the requirements for the IRS to have jurisdiction to
send you notices. The government cannot bill a Citizen of Texas, because he is not within the
purview of the MUNICIPAL LAWS of the District of Columbia. In fact, the Internal Revenue
Service has adopted the ZIP code areas as Internal Revenue Districts. See the Federal Register,
Volume 51, Number 53, Wednesday March 19, 1986.

You must remember that the Postal Service is a private corporation, a quasi-government agency.
It is no longer a full government agency. It is like the Federal Reserve System, the Internal
Revenue Service, and the United States and the United States Marshall Service. They are all
outside the restrictions of the Federal Constitution, as private corporations. They are all powerful
in their respective areas of responsibility, to enforce collection for the federal debt. So, if you are
using a ZIP code, you are in effect saying openly and notoriously that you do not live in the State
of Texas, etc, but instead are a resident in the Texas area of the District of Columbia (a federal
district). There are some so-called Patriot groups that I consider Patriots for money. They
advocate the use of Title 42 suits (which are for federal citizens only), send mail to you with a
ZIP code, and ask you to do things that place you within the municipal jurisdiction of the District
of Columbia.

Remember these individuals may be agents of the government or, even worse, are advocating a
one world government by the use of the Social Security number and the ZIP code.
So you must be aware of the movement towards a one world government through annihilation or
elimination of State Citizens by use of the so-called 14th Amendment and its related laws.
It is this writer's opinion, both as a result of study, e.g. of page 11 of the National Area ZIP code
Directory, of 26 U.S.C. 7621, of Section 4 of the Federal Register, Volume 51, Number 53, of
(TDO) 150-01; of the opinion in United States v LaSalle National Bank, 437 U.S. 298, 308, 98, 5
Ct 2d 2357, 571. Ed. 2d 221 (1978); of 12 U.S.C. 222; of 31 U.S.C. 103, and as a result of My
actual experience, that a ZIP code address is presumed to create a "Federal jurisdiction " or
“market venue” or “revenue districts” that override State boundaries, taking one who uses such
modes of address outside of a State venue and its constitutional protections and into an
international, commercial venue involving admiralty concerns of the "United States ", which is a
commercial corporation domiciled in Washington, D. C.

So how does your vehicle end up with a silent lien on it? The same way your very body ends up with a silent lien and your life and your labor are put up as collateral for "privileges". YOU PLEDGE IT FOR BAILMENT. Read the fine print.

reply to post by Alethea


Could be, those of us who "know" what is really up and have taken the steps to correct it and take control of the corporate fiction and ALL property thereto, are beating a dead horse in trying to explain or get the message out that it is very easy to right the ship, but it takes action and personal responsibility.

Personal responsibility is the key. If you don't know you have any rights, then you don't. But even in "knowing" you have rights, you must know how to enforce them or use them as they were meant to be used.

Taking control of the "strawman", or corporate fiction as it is, then you are first lien holder on all the property. I drove around for three years with "Tax Exempt" and "NO EXP" on my plates, I was stopped many times and the officers knew what I was taking about, then I got an idiot cop who was out to make a name for himself. He is not looking so good now. Went to court and claimed to be the beneficiary of the trust, as is the case, the judge moved it for an "Omnibus hearing" to see if my natural rights were violated. The cop may go to federal prison, depending on how I feel about it. If I do decide to press full charges under Title 18 and 28, then he is in deep trouble and I will walk with a nice check from the city. But I am not greedy, just want to educate the cop so he doesn't do this again. It is my auto, a household good and need NOT be registered as I have control of the corporate fiction and a common law lien on the auto. Under Article 1 Section 1 of the State Constitution, "ALL political power is inherent in the people", being one of the actual, flesh and blood people of the "state", I have the authority, it is MY identification (license) plate and I can modify it as I see fit. Collector, Antique, Pioneer and Street rod car plates have no tags and are tax exempt, and they are used for "general transportation purposes" and I use mine no different. Equal protection under the law IS the Law.

Funny how little people know about the actual statutes as they never look into it, to busy with ball sports, getting drunk, doing stupid crap and NOT paying attention to what the "corporate government" is doing or has done.

It's all about money and control. The money is worthless and WE have control. So come on already and step up to the plate and take what is rightfully yours!!! Your identity and your body and property.

I have been reading the TeamLaw website, in particular the Patriot Mythology page. They completely refute this "state owning your car" story thus:

Myth 18: The State owns your car: There are those that would have you believe the State owns your car. This myth is usually promoted by those who would like to convince you that the only way you can be safe is to buy something from them that will protect you from the State's ownership of your car. The alleged proof the proponents of this myth would have you accept is either their allegation that the State’s name on the license plate tag shows who owns the car or they allege that when you give the state the original title to the car you are conveying the car to them and they become the owner any you become the permitted user. Both of these allegations are false. The simple fact is the State has no ownership interest in your car at all. To debunk this myth takes only the simplest understanding of ownership and contracts. First let’s look at ownership: The question is, “How does one acquire ownership?” Ownership is usually acquired through purchase. A purchase is made through contract, which is defined by a transaction with a giver, a receiver, a valuable consideration over time and acceptance. Such relations are demonstrated in the related documentation. When you go to the store and buy a bag of oranges you pick out the oranges, take them to the check-out stand and pay for them and the store gives you a Title (receipt) for the oranges. The transaction for the car is not much different, except that the Title document may be a bit more complex. In most car ownership transactions there is a contract for sale, which, when completed and fulfilled, is your Title to the car, just like the receipt was for the bag of oranges. It shows the cars previous owner sold the car to you for a value that was agreed upon and exchanged. Some people will try to tell you that the Manufacturer's Statement of Origin (MSO) is the title to the car; it is not. The MSO is the car manufacturer's statement that gives the buyer notice of the individual components of the car, their sources and of the proof that the manufacturer was the lawful owner of the components they used to put the car together. In other words the MSO is the instrument the manufacturer uses to show that they have the lawful title to the car because they manufactured it from components they owned. Some people think that the “Certificate of Title” is the Title. It is not. The Certificate of Title is simply a certificate that represents the existence of a Title Insurance agreement over the car. It simply certifies that the state has used due diligence to cause you to demonstrate that you lawfully acquired the car and that their records do not show any defects in the ownership of the car. They certify that they will continue to secure the ownership of the car to you and they will use due diligence to secure that the car will not change ownership in their system in an unlawful manner. It is purely Title Insurance. Second let’s look at the contractual relation: In the process of securing a Certificate of Title for a car, there is nothing that states you are conveying ownership of the car to the State and there is nothing in the code that indicates any such thing. Wherefore, the alleged transfer of ownership from you to the State is false. The state does not own your car.

I have been studying up on all this for years now, I would like to see if someone can refute or debunk this, or establish that it is really true! Seems that daddio and Proto are the resident experts on this thread, what say you, gentlemen? Is this true or is it a bunch of hokum?

glad I can read this stuff...

reply to post by CaptChaos

The Certificate of Title is simply a certificate that represents the existence of a Title Insurance agreement over the car. It simply certifies that the state has used due diligence to cause you to demonstrate that you lawfully acquired the car and that their records do not show any defects in the ownership of the car. They certify that they will continue to secure the ownership of the car to you and they will use due diligence to secure that the car will not change ownership in their system in an unlawful manner.

Right there, that SHOULD tell you the lie. A "Title Insurance Agreement", why is that needed again? And can you NOT see the fraud there? What about your name in ALL CAPITAL LETTERS on the title? That is the corporate fiction YOU and not the flesh and blood you. The Title IS the contract that recinds ownership TO the "state" making you the leasee. ANY time you register anything, it is a transfer of ownership or contract.

Look up the defintion of "strawman", it is a transfer utility. It allows the "state" to transfer YOUR property to their hands, for control and profit. You are the "person"/corporate fiction that is ALLOWED use, there is the privilege. And THAT is why you need a license to use it and must pay a lease fee in the form of taxes. And why they can stop you and cite you for misuse of state property. It's all corporate activity, commerce. Are not all cities incorporated? The Police are the security force, not "Law Enforcement" but Policy Enforcement...Polic E. See?

This is again, why you file the UCC-1, to take "control" of the strawman debtor and become the controlling party, the power of attorney, so you then become first lien holder of all the collateral and then the "state" has no jurisdiction without your CONSENT.

These sites you quote, do this all the time, to keep the unsuspecting people or those "sitting on the fence" from actually jumping off the fence and running with the truth to tell everyone else. It is a simple thing that is done all the time. Some people will not look into the plausibility of what they read, they just read it and go....."that must be true, the government wouldn't lie to me, I am the constituent."

I would copy and paste so many quotes here, but what good would that do? How many people really read them that want to learn the truth and from both sides of the arguement. If you look at both sides, one side is not interested in taking anything FROM you, the other side is hellbent on keeping you in the "system", who is more likely to provide the real truth and the light you seek?

reply to post by daddio

I would copy and paste so many quotes here, but what good would that do? How many people really read them that want to learn the truth and from both sides of the arguement. If you look at both sides, one side is not interested in taking anything FROM you, the other side is hellbent on keeping you in the "system", who is more likely to provide the real truth and the light you seek?

I think the problem is that You are indeed taking something from them Daddio and that something is the "illusion" of safety.

They don't want to admit that the Laws are B.S. While most would love to be free of all the Laws, They don't like the fact that if they were free then everyone else would be free also.

Originally posted by Adamanteus
reply to post by daddio

 

I would copy and paste so many quotes here, but what good would that do? How many people really read them that want to learn the truth and from both sides of the arguement. If you look at both sides, one side is not interested in taking anything FROM you, the other side is hellbent on keeping you in the "system", who is more likely to provide the real truth and the light you seek?

I think the problem is that You are indeed taking something from them Daddio and that something is the "illusion" of safety.

They don't want to admit that the Laws are B.S. While most would love to be free of all the Laws, They don't like the fact that if they were free then everyone else would be free also.

Funny you mention that last line, I am reading Frederic Bastiat's "The Law", and he states right in there that the "elected" officials take everything for themselves and they live freely but the rest are enslaved for the "security" of society. What a pleasant thought. And this book was written in 1850!!!

Get a copy and read it, its short and to the point, very good work and a very valuable tool.

Originally posted by CaptChaos
I have been reading the TeamLaw website, in particular the Patriot Mythology page. They completely refute this "state owning your car" story thus:

Myth 18: The State owns your car: There are those that would have you believe the State owns your car. This myth is usually promoted by those who would like to convince you that the only way you can be safe is to buy something from them that will protect you from the State's ownership of your car. The alleged proof the proponents of this myth would have you accept is either their allegation that the State’s name on the license plate tag shows who owns the car or they allege that when you give the state the original title to the car you are conveying the car to them and they become the owner any you become the permitted user. Both of these allegations are false. The simple fact is the State has no ownership interest in your car at all. To debunk this myth takes only the simplest understanding of ownership and contracts. First let’s look at ownership: The question is, “How does one acquire ownership?” Ownership is usually acquired through purchase. A purchase is made through contract, which is defined by a transaction with a giver, a receiver, a valuable consideration over time and acceptance. Such relations are demonstrated in the related documentation. When you go to the store and buy a bag of oranges you pick out the oranges, take them to the check-out stand and pay for them and the store gives you a Title (receipt) for the oranges. The transaction for the car is not much different, except that the Title document may be a bit more complex. In most car ownership transactions there is a contract for sale, which, when completed and fulfilled, is your Title to the car, just like the receipt was for the bag of oranges. It shows the cars previous owner sold the car to you for a value that was agreed upon and exchanged. Some people will try to tell you that the Manufacturer's Statement of Origin (MSO) is the title to the car; it is not. The MSO is the car manufacturer's statement that gives the buyer notice of the individual components of the car, their sources and of the proof that the manufacturer was the lawful owner of the components they used to put the car together. In other words the MSO is the instrument the manufacturer uses to show that they have the lawful title to the car because they manufactured it from components they owned. Some people think that the “Certificate of Title” is the Title. It is not. The Certificate of Title is simply a certificate that represents the existence of a Title Insurance agreement over the car. It simply certifies that the state has used due diligence to cause you to demonstrate that you lawfully acquired the car and that their records do not show any defects in the ownership of the car. They certify that they will continue to secure the ownership of the car to you and they will use due diligence to secure that the car will not change ownership in their system in an unlawful manner. It is purely Title Insurance. Second let’s look at the contractual relation: In the process of securing a Certificate of Title for a car, there is nothing that states you are conveying ownership of the car to the State and there is nothing in the code that indicates any such thing. Wherefore, the alleged transfer of ownership from you to the State is false. The state does not own your car.

I have been studying up on all this for years now, I would like to see if someone can refute or debunk this, or establish that it is really true! Seems that daddio and Proto are the resident experts on this thread, what say you, gentlemen? Is this true or is it a bunch of hokum?

When you buy a vehicle from a dealer the buyer as indicated on their "bill of sale" says that the dealership "sells" "assigns" and "CONSIGNS". Look it up in Bouviers

I am resurrecting a tiny classic car how should I register it this time.

It is not a passenger veh- I have never charged anyone for the ride
It is not a sports car - it might get up to 70 if you floor it.
etc etc etc.
It it a privately owned (by me- not the state) not used for any commercial purpose.

The bigger legal conspiracy is car insurance. You don't have to buy it. To drive on public roads some smart people who knew their rights got themselves BOND's for $100,000, or whatever the State required as each State is different. They then had the State Treasurer stamp the Bond and it's their insurance card.

They drive their entire lives on their Bond, and when they retire they cash it in and it supplements their retirement.


So where is your Insurance Bond? Many generations of Americans have been foolishly paying someone else for a Bond....and get no money back when they retire and quit driving. So where is the Hundreds of Trillions in Insurance Bonds that generations of Americans have been paying into?

Somebody has all that money.

a reply to: Historical-Mozart

What about all the talk of putting an ad in the paper. Can't we put an ad in the paper and left unchallenged stands as fact does it not? Isn't that how they got over on us with the BC.? Yes I just went to DMV and they did not give me The MOS they gave me a Certificate of Origin for a Vehicle. Which was filed almost 3 months before I got the Car so how can they say, it's not fraud. The car company did not disclose this to me, nor show me this COV. So I just paid 6 bucks and it is still not even a copy of the MOS. Just not right, any way you look at it. It says all can be voided if done in a fraudulent manner. So I call voided right here and now as you as my witnesses. We just need to start playing their games.

a reply to: daddio

Yes the Zip Code Patent has run out. Why if they could, would they not renew it?