You do NOT own your car/truck/SUV!

Nicely put proto. It is just like the movie the matrix. People will defend it. It is exactly like an abusive relationship only the masses are abused and they will still offer all the excuses in the world for the beater. That is all they see because they cannot break free from their mental bonds and chains. The state has done an outstanding job on getting people to defend it.

Tell me about it ! I live in Kansas , the highest state when it comes to property taxes.

Originally posted by stilltrying
Nicely put proto. It is just like the movie the matrix. People will defend it. It is exactly like an abusive relationship only the masses are abused and they will still offer all the excuses in the world for the beater. That is all they see because they cannot break free from their mental bonds and chains. The state has done an outstanding job on getting people to defend it.

Very well said friend. It's like Stockholm syndrome when people start to identify and sympathize with their abductors.

It's amazing the utter poverty and hopeless dispair so many people live in these days. Many citizens have been searching for a job for periods of over a year and can't even find one mopping floors even though they might be a PHD.

The government gives away billions, trillions of dollars to the world's wealthiest individuals to bail out their poorly and fraudently run businesses so they don't have to spend any of their own personal fortunes paying for their own business practices and even though it is the citizens money being given away they just accept it.

The government tells them how to raise their children and what they can and can't do in their homes in regards to their own families. The people smile and accept it.

The government takes title to their homes and cars and everything of value and taxes them to use it and keep it. The people smile and accept it.

The government charges outrageous taxes and surcharges on luxury and sinful indulgences like ligour and tobacco and wants to expand it to soft drinks and candy. The people smile and accept it.

The government knows best they say. The government knows better than we our selves do how we should live and behave.

They smile.

It's kind of creepy if you ask me. It's like the lights are on, but nobody is home!

"You have entered the Twighlight Zone. Beyond this door strange things are known. Use the key and open the door. See what your fate might have in store."

Rush from the 2112 album.

I simply can not believe the replys to this crap.

Then again that is why come to this site these days...Entertainment value.

First of all you do own the vehicle. You are given a dealers report of sale to prove you bought the vehicle and that you own it and that they collectd the sales tax on the purchase.

If you do not wish to drive the car on public roadway you do not have to pay the fees to do so and do not have to register the car, if you just want to drive it around your yard.

Even if the state takes your proof of ownership your name is still on it as the owner and they give you a title listing you as the owner. The state does not put their name on your title and claim ownership of your car. That is just stupid. You have a title recognized as owning the vehicle and can sell it or give it away as you please. How is that not owning your car? Come on here people!

There is no property tax on personal prperty such as a car (mobile homes in some places are taxed as personal property). You pay fees to drive it on the road and not to own it.

Has common sense complete wasted away on this planet. The replys stating how right this is scary.

reply to post by whattheh


That is because a lot of people do not know the law, nor do they care to do research into it for themselves and the anti-Government sentiment is deep on topic where possession and ownership go as well as people are going through financial crisis right now due to the economy.

While the documentation of licensing is relevant and as well the necessity to have your title to prove ownership creates the speculation on the topic, ther are many people right now out there who have their vehicles repossessed due to fail to pay the bank loan and the lien holder takes their possession back through repossession through legal but surreptitious means with the repo man who literally steals the vehicle out of their driveway, legally.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
The State simply put does not want to own your cheap imitation knock off of a genuine article, because the state doesn't want to assume liability for it. So they let you keep the MSO isn't that nice of them.

You have a remarkable gift for blowing smoke....since when do you speak for what the "state" wants or doesn't want?

An MSO/MCO works as a type of "Bearer Bond" for a $10,000 Chevy Aveo.....but becomes worthless when issued for a $50,000 kit car?

"Assume liability?" What kind of nonsense is that? Show me how any state has liability for a privately owned and operated vehicle.....any. Are you claiming it's possible for someone to drive their vehicle through the neighbor's garage and through some bizarre mechanism the state pays damages? Really?

How about all of that rolling iron, that can't pass inspection, fails emissions testing, yet the state insists on issuing titles to?

Ah the heck with it....your gift for "making stuff up" renders all of this pointless.

reply to post by MrPenny

Some people sure overlook the obvious! Let’s look at how a State becomes liable for you and your motor vehicle.

1. Pot holes…roads actually go through wear and tear caused by your car. (The state is liable for these roads)

2. Accidents that create responses for police…incredible to think but police officers are actually paid no just to harass citizens but redirect traffic and take official reports when an accident occurs (The state is liable for those salaries)

3. Accidents that disturb the smooth flow of traffic...these are called traffic jams and when they slow down people getting from point A. to B. this limits those peoples productivity and results in lost and decreased wages. Lost and decreased wages result in lost tax revenue (The state is liable to tax you!)

4. Accidents that destroy State property…we have all seen it before, a road sign has been knocked down (don’t think they cost a lot check with UNICORE PRISON INDUSTRIES for the outrageous prices the state pays for these signs), bridge supports that are rammed, sometimes even closing bridges which guess what causes additional productivity delays and lost tax revenue not to mention repair costs for labor and material (The state is liable for all of this)

5. Accidents that involve injuries…most of us have marveled at some point in time as we watch those medical helicopters look for the nearest clearing or roof top as critically injured slaves deemed to still have a productive potential in the future are whisked up into the sky to be taken to a public health trust TRAUMA center run by the county/state. (The state is liable for this)

6. Accidents that involve injuries to the uninsured or by the uninsured…just because they aren’t insured doesn’t mean they are not paying taxes and a productive slave public health trust ambulances will take them to public health trust hospitals for free medical care. (The State becomes liable for this)

7. Accidents that cause Toxic Chemical and Flammable Chemical Spills…Hazardous Material Teams employed by the State must rush to the scene and close the area down resulting once more in productivity delays and loss of tax revenues as well as clean up costs and the costs of safely disposing of the Hazardous Material (The State becomes liable for this)

8. Lawsuits…just because it was your worthless kit car that caused the accident doesn’t mean someone isn’t going to sue the state for some other element involved in the accident like a pot hole, or a poorly maintained sign and isn’t going to sue the state in a lawsuit. State attorneys get paid too (The State becomes liable for this)

Why most people are in fact slaves is because their minds simply can not grasp the logistics of life and the infrastructure and how it functions around them.

This is why the Powers that Be have utter distain for the average person my friend, because you can actually be so oblivious to the underlying realities of logistics and costs that you can make a completely unqualified and poorly thought out statement like “The state doesn’t have any liability”.

This is why they rig the political process so you can’t decide who will lead you so they can make 600,000 laws for their corporate government to govern and control every aspect of your life because most people are utterly incapable of critical and introspective and contemplative thought.

People are simply taught to accept everything they force upon you and to be critical of others capable of independent analysis and thought.

Since people are incapable by willful purpose of considering the logistics involved in running a community and keeping it productively functioning for the enrichment of the powerful, rich and intelligent people that can consider logistics and create working systems and infrastructure, they take ownership of everything that the community produces. Like your vehicle unless it’s a worthless Kit Car!

Now once again anyone who doesn’t think the State Owns your vehicle stop paying taxes on it and to the Federal Government and see how long they let you drive and keep your vehicle that you ah hum cough, cough “Own”.

reply to post by Missing Blue Sky

Makes you want to get a horse!

TPTB has PLANS for horses and 28 other species of livestock too. You have to register and tag the critters and you have 24 hours to report every time the animal leaves your property and returns. You become a "stakeholder" and your property permanently becomes a "premises" This means you lose your Constitutional rights to the ownership of your land and livestock!

Fines up to one million/day per violation, a yearly fee of $500 and if they nail you, you do not have Judicial review (no day in court)

Checkout History, HACCP and the FOOD Safety CON JOB TPTB have taken our gold and our wealth they have taken our industry and jobs, the next target is our food and farmland.

The term "premise" is an international term with international implications. Bruce Knight let the cat out of the bag last year.

...the word premises under the international Criminal Court Act 2002- Sect 4states: The word premises includes a place and a conveyance.

Why check with the International Criminal Court Act? Because on June 8, 2007 under Secy. Of Ag. Bruce Knight speaking at the World Pork Expo in Des Moines is quoted as saying We have to live by the same international rules were expecting other people to do. Throughout the entire Draft National Animal Identification System Users Guide land is referred to as a premises and not property.

A Premises has no protection under the Constitution of the United States while property always has the exclusive rights of the owner tied to it. Property rights are protected by the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments of the Constitution.

The word Premise is a synonym for the word tenement. A definition of the word tenement in law is: Property such as land held by one person leasing it to another.

Websters New World Dictionary 1960 College Edition defines Premises as the part of a deed or lease that states its reason the parties involved and the property in conveyance. Webster then defines conveyance as the transfer of ownership of real property from one person to another. It is quite obvious that the bureaucrats in Washington had a very good reason to use the term premises and never mention PROPERTY. "See Derry Brownfield Interview" Wouldn't you like some clarification before signing up?

The word premises is a synonym for the word tenement. A definition of the word tenement in law is: "Property, such as land, rents, or franchises, held by one person leasing it to another.

Black's Law Dictionary, premises, in the context of estates and property, means: lands and tenaments, buildings, an estate, the subject matter of a conveyance, land and appurtenances thereto.

Registration means recording, enrolling, inserting in an official register.

Register (v.) means to record formally and exactly.

Page 22 The New User Guide-USDA The Truth about Premises Identification, Before you sign up did they release this information to you?
premises identification number, or PIN, is then assigned to that location associating it with the mailing address. Page 22 The New User Guide It is important to remember that the premises identification number (PIN) is assigned to a geophysical location. If an owner or entity sells his/her farm, the next operators of the premises use the original premises identification number that had been assigned to that location. If the seller buys a new location to build a new operation that never had livestock, he/she would register that location and obtain a new premises identification number It will carry with the land forever unless its paved over. That means this PIN must be disclosed when selling the property. Will the PIN have an negative or positive affect on the property in regards to the selling or buying of the property?

No Mis-Information, No Half Truths, No Mis-Understanding, Just Facts Taken from the USDA National Animal Identification System Draft Strategic Plan 2005-2009 Each premises will be identified with a unique seven-character identifier, or a premises identification number.

Serious questions you need to ask and demand answers to:
1: What is the legal nature of the contract that I enter into when I sign up for a U.S. Premises Identification Number?
2: Does the U.S. Premises Identification Number, "cloud" the title to my property?
3: When I get a U.S. Premises Identification Number, does my farm become subject to the regulations of the U.S. Department of Agriculture?

SOURCE

...the primary reason the USDA-APHIS desires to force the NAIS system onto the livestock sectors of the United States is simple: Bruce Knight told a large group of bovine practitioners at our annual meeting in Vancouver, Canada in September 2007, when asked why the USDA was pushing so hard for NAIS, and I quote, "It is quite simple. We want to be in compliance with OIE regulations by 2010."...

...The USDA-APHIS has testified before the United States Department of Agriculture, House of Representatives, Committee on Agriculture, Subcommittee on Livestock, Dairy, Poultry, March 11, 2009 that the NAIS would have to be electronic in nature to function as envisioned by the WTO.

Now I don't know about all you equine owners, but we cattle producers do not look kindly on an international agency in Belgium telling us what we can and cannot do with our livestock in the United States.

It will cost the equine owner in excess of $50.00 a head to implant the electronic microchip desired by the USDA and the WTO. You will then be required to report any movement of your horse or horses off your property, and for any reason. Imagine the bureaucratic nightmare and the paperwork requirements of reporting to your government every time you go on a trail ride, every time you go to a show or an event, and every time you trailer a mare to go to the stud. There will have to be an NAIS office in every county seat to process all this data, keep track of your information, and report any violations to the USDA. Just imagine the fines and enforcement actions that will be carried out to enforce this NAIS system on the livestock industry of the United States of America, including equine owners.

...The United States Department of Agriculture, Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service (USDA-APHIS) no longer seeks to carry out their mandate to prevent the introduction of foreign animal and plant diseases into the United States.

R. M. Thornsberry, D.V.M., M.B.A. March 28, 2009
SOURCE

The USDA and FDA no longer prevent disease ridden animals/food from crossing our borders and are closing down test labs. Food testing has been turned over to the corporations and Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service (USDA-APHIS) just checks paperwork. THAT is why the USA has seen an increase in contaminated food since WTO took over the USDA and FDA.

reply to post by whattheh


You are wrong. There are court cases stating that the right to travel on roads are a public good and cannot be regulated PERIOD. No license or registration is needed as stated by the court. Your gasoline purchase is supposed to be the tax that covers road repairs, unfortunately the state has now stolen that money from its original purchase and has put it into the states general funds to be used on anything they want. Gasoline tax is supposed to be used for the roads. Even gasoline tax is a regulation.

Why does the state have to have a title? Why cant a bill of sale be good enough? From manufacturer to dealer to bank to purchaser. That is all the proof that is needed? Why does the state have to get involved in the first place?

Originally posted by PauligirlThe MCO or MSO is the manufacturer's papers. Shows when and where the vehicle was built and if tariffs involved if imported. When you buy the car/truck/trailer, the MSO is turned in and you get a title in your name.

Basically, what you're saying, and rightly so it would seem is that the state gets the document stating when and where and how the machine was constructed, when and where and how it was sold. So there is a record of the vehicle and all pertinent info. They then issue a title showing who owns said vehicle to which all the aforementioned information pertains. That is to say, it provides the personal information of the owner and points back to the technical information from the manufacturer's own paperwork.

Manufacturer's paperwork = details of construction, import, sale.
Title = personal paperwork demonstrating personal ownership of vehicle specified on manufacturer's paperwork.

Where's the beef?

reply to post by Historical-Mozart

Well, if you have to get a license plate to own it and a license to drive it, then it is really hard to argue that you own it rather than the government owning it an letting you use it.

reply to post by stilltrying


All the traffic regulations were put in by the early 20th Century "Progressives", like Hillary Clinton claimed to be during the last election.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Where does your money come from? The Federal Reserve. What is the Federal Reserve? A foreign owned not for profit religious corporation!

The heck you say. I kid you not, registered in the State of Deleware famous for it's lax corporate laws that help sheild corporate ownership and registered as a religious not for profit corporation.

Maybe that's why your currency attached to nothing of value is emblazoned with "In God we Trust".

The reality is the U.S. Dollar is a worthless piece of paper no different than monopoly money.

It's part of a religious ceremony and can be used for goods and services at the Corporate Company Store.

[edit on 25/10/09 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

I read through most of this thread but I must say these few lines/paragraph really struck me odd.

A not-for-profit religious corporation? How is not "not-for-profit" when the federal reserve is charging interest to commercial banks before they in turn lend money to everyone else? And a religious corporation

Technically they say its a semi-private, banking institution with limited governmental supervision but the government might as well not attend any meetings SINCE ALL THEY DO IS JUST SIGN THE PAPERWORK with no influence what-so-ever...not that they care anyway!

The whole system IS A TOTAL JOKE at the expense of hard-working, tax paying people such as you and me. If people really knew the thruth these scumbag leeches would not survive long...thats for sure! There time will come and it won't be pretty.

You don't own your land unless you obtain a Land Patent. You only own the real estate (what is movable). People think they own their land and have property rights but in reality they are just a tenant of their land because they do not possess the Land Patent. That's why you have to pay property taxes.

Much the same way, you can protect everything you own if you know and understand common law, which is the law of the founding documents. Corp U.S. does not operate under common law any longer but under maritime law. It's for the purpose of conducting commerce, thus the permits, fines and fees.

The reason we as American's are in a state of emergency today, is because we have neglected to learn the law under which we are free to live (common law). If we're ever going to restore our nation to a Constitutional Republic, we are going to have to learn the common law and exercise those rights.

Under common law, we are not subject to permits or licenses, and we do not have to pay income taxes. When you come to know the truth about the law and the great deception created by Corp U.S. you will come to realize the extent of your freedom and sovereignty, until then you will only be a slave of the United States Corporation, unknowingly waiving your rights and wages.

The most reliable source I have found for achieving this is at www.teamlaw.net.... Register to join the forum and read the entire first issue of the WARN newsletter. You will be greatly enlightened. Beyond that, I would recommend to subscribe and receive subsequent newsletters and materials available to educate yourself about the law of sovereign Americans. Sovereign Americans that know and understand the common law and how to use it are not subject to the jurisdiction of the Corp. U.S. court system and can never be prosecuted in that court, by reason of lack of venue. Know the truth, and it shall set you free!

Godspeed!

reply to post by CharlesMartel


My Great-Grandad was born in the early 1900's. He began driving when he was thirteen. He did not have to acquire a license. There are still sovereign American's few and far between that have never had to acquire a license or registration because they understand common law and know how to use it. The reason people have to pay car taxes, license and registration is because they contracted with DMV to do so. They voluntarily did it because they didn't know any better. Until they learn the common law, they are stuck in the contract.

www.teamlaw.net...

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


Here is what you don't get friend, our money is paper that is attached to nothing of intrinsic value. It is impossible to be a for profit corporation when there is no way to actually make a profit when the only thing you could profit is pieces of paper with no intrinsic value.

Laugh all you want but that makes sense to me and that is why the Federal Reserve is a not for profit religious corporation because or money embalazoned with In God We Trust is not attached to anything of value it's just paper.

This is what has value, natural resources, gold, siliver, oil, human beings etc, etc. People will do things to get these things, just like they will do things to get money.

Real wealth as opposed to paper wealth is measured in what you control and posses in the way of resources and what services and things you can people to do to have some of the resources you own.

That's why the Powers that Be are rich they actually own the resources. That's why they have the Governments they set up and control hold title to anything of value, land, homes, cars, etc.

People too. I am glad you can laugh about it, it helps to be a happy slave!

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


I understand what you are saying but I don't think money has to be tied to natural resources to have value. Basically money/currency is a medium of bartering, nothing more and nothing less! If we all agree on a given value set by the government in advance then everything would be ok but unfortunately its value is not fixed because it fluctuates according to economic conditions. Of course, the explanation of "currency flucatuates according to economic conditions" may(and probably is) nothing more than smoke & mirrors.

The main problem with the dollar as I see it is that the government(s) has delegated issuing authority to a private/corporate firm, called The Federal Reserve Bank of America. By doing this that basically means the money does not belong to government anymore, regardless of the fact that they have contracted the US Treasury Department to print it. It doesn't matter who prints the money because they are only performing a service to the issuant. 99% of the people have trouble accepting this concept and they don't realise the confusion has been intentionally created to keep us unaware of what is actually happening!

If we had a publically owned FEDERAL BANK(much like the STATE BANK of the ex-soviet union but without all the central planning) I bet our nation would not have aquired a $10 trillion dollar debt because they would adjust the money supply(with inflation and deflation) as necessary to maintain a healthy economy. The money supply should be based on population according to census reports. When the population increases you inflate the money supply and if it decreases you deflate the money supply.

THE BOTTOM LINE IS THAT PEOPLE, VIA THE GOVERNMENT, SHOULD OWN THE MONEY, not private banksters from america and/or europe. I understand you might disagree so you don't have to take my opinion as fact.

I forgot to mention in my previous post to you the following:

1)I do NOT support the United States of America Corporation

2)I DO support the United States of America

While what I say makes theoretic sense, at this point in time I don't trust the american government to do anything unless its fundamentally flawed from the start...this way they can say "hay we tried but unfortunately it didn't work out so we are going back to the old ways"... Much like all the pseudo-socialistic programs we currently have!

The problem is not big government! It's that we are mistakingly working for the usa corporation, which is owned by a few elite. This oligarchy is reeping all the profits, while having us believe that they are looking out for our best interests.

"That's the part I'm not getting. If the "state" does own everything, why the lack of state siezure of property, cars, children etc? Yes those things do occur, usually during some sort of legal proceeding, but why is it not rampant? "

Very simple. It is not rampant because if a state were to actually set up a roadblock and just take people's cars on a section of freeway, it would be too sudden; and America might actually wake up and start revolting. It would be too obvious. The only way to get people to fall in line is to do it verrrryyyy slowwwwlllyyy, one little step at a time. Just think, a hundred years ago there wasn't even a DMV. People owned what they owned, and traveled freely. So it took a hundred years of slow change to finally get to where we are today. The government knows this, which is why the government operates so slowly, that's the easiest way to do it. If you do it all at once it's a red flag and people won't stand for it.

reply to post by Historical-Mozart


But you can IF you file the paperwork, i have and my thread is here...www.abovetopsecret.com...

More info on how YOUR auto IS a household good...

U.C.C. - ARTICLE 9 - SECURED TRANSACTIONS; SALES OF ACCOUNTS AND
CHATTEL PAPER
PART 1. SHORT TITLE, APPLICABILITY AND DEFINITIONS
§ 9-109. Classification of Goods: "Consumer Goods"; "Equipment"; "Farm Products";
"Inventory".

Goods are

(1) "consumer goods" if they are used or bought for use primarily for personal, family or
household purposes;
(2) "equipment" if they are used or bought for use primarily in business (including farming or a
profession) or by a debtor who is a non-profit organization or a governmental subdivision or
agency or if the goods are not included in the definitions of inventory, farm products or
consumer goods;

Relevant applicable stare decisis case cites relating directly to UCC 9-109:

“Under UCC §9-109 there is a real distinction between goods purchased for personal use
and those purchased for business use. The two are mutually exclusive and the principal
use to which the property is put should be considered as determinative.” James Talcott,
Inc. v Gee, 5 UCC Rep Serv 1028; 266 Cal.App.2d 384, 72 Cal.Rptr. 168 (1968).
“The classification of goods in UCC §9-109 are mutually exclusive.” McFadden v
Mercantile-Safe Deposit & Trust Co., 8 UCC Rep Serv 766; 260 Md 601, 273 A.2d 198
(1971).

“Automobile purchased for the purpose of transporting buyer to and from his place of
employment was ``consumer goods'' as defined in UCC §9-109.” Mallicoat v Volunteer
Finance & Loan Corp., 3 UCC Rep Serv 1035; 415 S.W.2d 347 (Tenn. App., 1966).

“The provisions of UCC §2-316 of the Maryland UCC do not apply to sales of consumer
goods (a term which includes automobiles, whether new or used, that are bought
primarily for personal, family, or household use).” Maryland Independent Automobile
Dealers Assoc., Inc. v Administrator, Motor Vehicle Admin., 25 UCC Rep Serv 699; 394
A.2d 820, 41 Md App 7 (1978).

IN RE BARNES
United States District Court,
D Maine, September 15, 1972

Bankruptcy No. BK 72-129ND, No. EK 72-13OND
[9109] Consumer goods - automobile for transportation to and from work.

The use of a vehicle by its owner for purposes of traveling to and from his employment is a
personal, as opposed to a business use, as that term is used in UCC § 9-109(l), and the
vehicle will be classified as consumer goods rather than equipment.

Stare Decisis.....the KEY words. Look them up. These court cases provide insight into HOW you reclaim the corporate fiction property. Again, the "State" and federal governments have NO JURISDICTION over you or I, period.

And for the record for ALL you cops who THINK you know the "law" stare decisis AGAIN...

The general rule is that an unconstitutional statute, though having the form and name of law, is in reality no law, but is wholly void and ineffective for any purpose, since its unconstitutionality dates from the time of its enactment... In legal contemplation, it is as inoperative as if it had never been passed... Since an unconstitutional law is void, the general principles follow that it imposes no duties, confers no right, creates no office, bestows no power or authority on anyone, affords no protection and justifies no acts performed under it... A void act cannot be legally consistent with a valid one. An unconstitutional law cannot operate to supersede any existing law. Indeed insofar as a statute runs counter to the fundamental law of the land, it is superseded thereby. No one is bound to obey an unconstitutional law and no courts are bound to enforce it." Bonnett v. Vallier, 116 N.W. 885, 136 Wis. 193 (1908); NORTON v. SHELBY COUNTY, 118 U.S. 425 (1886) (emphasis mine)