The Jesus Conspiracy & why you believe...

Originally posted by reasonable
reply to post by kettlebellysmith

 

If you choose not to believe it, then why do so many want to deny me or others the right to believe?

Because you are a danger to yourself and others. I don't think I need to go into detail, it's pretty clear when buildings get hit with planes then babies in Iraq get dusted with white phosphorous.

[edit on 22-10-2009 by reasonable]

Wow, so then I guess anybody who has a gun is a terrorist right? Think a little bit.

Originally posted by StopComplaining

Originally posted by OneDivided
To me, it's not the origins that matter. Jesus taught us how to live at peace with one another. He gave us all the info we need to live fruitful lives. It does not matter to me where the book came from. Wether or not you believe in him as a person, doesn't matter. But why not believe in his MESSAGE?

Laodicean.

not me, I personally accept Jesus as my lord and savior, my point was that even if someone does not, are the teachings of Jesus not worthy to model your life after?

I just don't see a need to preach or try to convert anyone, since everyone on this board has access to his word.

Originally posted by teapot
Jesus was not just a 'messenger'.

By his life, his death and his resurrection, he changed everything!

The Gospels and why they were written approximately 60+ years after Jesus's resurrection? Jesus had a lot to say about those who relied on the written word of the day, he called them hypocrites! So busy were they trying to 'prove' their authority via their holy books, yet taking no time nor effort to actually minister unto others.

interesting also how many versions of the bible are there something like 3663, which one to beleive hey!

I say go by your own book of inner knowledge act with integraty thats the key

[edit on 23-10-2009 by serin sister]

[edit on 23-10-2009 by serin sister]

reply to post by OneDivided


I was raised a Roman Catholic.... I assure you, not only did I read the New Testiment, but the Old as well.

Originally posted by OneDivided
Jesus speaks of love and light and challenging even the highest figure that dare tell you how to think. Thus his point.

And do you challenge His word? Do you have the nerve to see that in history Jesus was a man. But that might have been it?

Adam and Eve were forbade from the Garden of Eden. for eating an apple from what tree............ The Tree of Knowledge.

Why does God fear you knowing things?

i think it makes sence looking at it this way...

-4000ish years ago clergy get best cut of meat thanks to old T
-2000ish years ago clergy switch to cash payment thanks to new T
-1000ish years ago clergy own most of the world, every nation in the west has towns which are basically lots of peasents scraping for sustinance from the land by working hard while the chrurch and clergy have gold covered everything and the finest of linen, etc, etc...

^ Church has the power, clergy get rich while poor suffer...

-500ish years ago science starts to break apart catholic monopoloy (would calvin or Luther have existed without the printing press and people like guttenburg? no(
-250 years ago, society forces the church to accept non-religious morals (womens lib, slavery abolition.
-100 years ago modern science manages to raise the standard of living for people lifting them from poverty and giving them actuall substantual help and hope in this world.

^^ science starts to take over, everyone gets sustinance, medicine, etc, etc, etc

upto the age of reason the company founded on the principles of that book, i.e. 'catholic plc' did nothing but make itself rich and powerfull - - - science in a fraction of the time managed to make the world nicer for EVERYONE to live in.

Which seems to be less evil? scientific method (respect for truth) or religious dogma (it must be true because we have all this money and power)

The bible has never helped anyone do anything more than put up with their suffering, science has helped actually decrese the amount of suffering in the world.

Jesus's might have spake long ago, much of what he said was wise and stands up reason today - that part is science, it's correct and rational so we'll take it. Most of what is recorded in the bible is nothing to do with goodness or doing good - its about obeying the powerful and always right, never to be questioned god (or atleast his earthly servents) who has, histroy revealed done plenty of wickid and bad things...

so yes of course read the bible, only a fool would ignore its importance in the development of our formerly judeo-christian society - don't forget goath, neitzher, russo, voltair, kant, dawkins, hitchins, sagan and all the others too!

I think you already know the answer to that question, look at our works as a species. Sure, there's some marvelous things, but much more death.

I think a better question is "why did he create us with the limitation of not knowing good or evil?" what was our original purpose?

reply to post by Jkd Up


Jesus was partially a man, yes. Also the new books were written when politics were beginning to take true form hence all the lying and misleading.

[edit on 10/23/09 by Ophiuchus 13]

Reincarnation is how we all pass through eternity - including 'the Christ'

There are many good points being made in this thread and kudos to everyone participating in it. I started my reply with a reference to reincarnation because it is so important in any discussion of religion (and/or science). The question of what happens to us after death is the basic component of every belief. We now have scientific proof of reincarnation. This changes the world drastically! Hindus & Buddhists have believed in reincarnation for thousands of years. Hasidic & Kaballistic Jews believe in it, as do other Jews. Sufi Muslims believe in it and many other Muslims are open to it. Many ancient religions, i.e. Egyptians, Babylonians, Mithraism, Druids, Greek Pythagoreans, etc. believed in the 'transmigration of the soul'. Reincarnation was taught by early Church Fathers such as Origen & Clement of Alexandria and they taught that Jesus taught it. (I highly recommend the book Reincarnation - The Missing Link In Christianity by Elizabeth Prophet.)

The return or 2nd Coming of the Christ and a "resurrection of the dead" is a major dogma of Christianity. It is a large part of the Christian Testament. (I don't use 'New Testament' - anything 1,900+ years old is hardly new.) So the question is, "How is the Christ and millions of others going to return?" Many believe he'll appear in his original body and that millions of skeletons, 'lost at sea', and cremated bodies will suddenly and miraculously reform. I don't see this as logical or based on laws of science at all - it sounds like a bad Halloween movie! But a reincarnated Christ that produces the science behind reincarnation as one of the "7 seals" and can identify himself in his most recent incarnation (Albert Einstein) and others would logically satisfy the prophecies. Remember that according to the Bible, if anyone claims to be the Christ, then that person would have to produce the "book/scroll" of The Revelation 5:1-10:10 that only the Christ can produce. It's like the story of Arthur and the Sword & the Stone - only the one who is worthy can pull it out and then be recognized as the King.

Many - including in this thread - have properly interpreted/explained that "heaven & hell is a frame of mind". 'Heaven' and 'heavens' are often getting confused, but look them up in a dictionary and they are quite different! The tricky part is reconciling that this is heaven and that we'll find the Christ in heaven. This can be done by first recognizing that reincarnation explains a lot of things that a non-reincarnation 'reality' does not. Jesus was a man and thee 'god' (notice the small g). The incarnation of that soul was not the first on this planet and it wasn't the last until now. Jesus did not die on the Cross. I realize that this is again dogma for many Christians, but that doesn't make it correct. No one - including Y'shua ben Josef - dies and then comes back to life in the same body. The definition of death is that it is final. Jesus (and many others) had a 'near-death-experience'. It seems just as miraculous to me and yet, now scientific. Appearing to his family and disciples after his crucifixion is the only logical explanation of why they would dedicate the rest of their lives to teaching about him, traveling, and being persecuted.

Jesus was born on April 17, 6 BC or as it would have been recorded by the Romans back then: 17/4/747 AUC. He was an Aries the Ram - baby rams are lambs and IESVS was the "Lamb of God". It all is connected! 17/4/747 is quite a number! Consider that in Simple(74) English(74) Gematria(74): A-B-C becomes 1-2-3(74), GOD=7_4. Divine God=74, religion=74, Jewish=74, Jesus=74 / Y'shua=74 / IESVS=74, Messiah=74, Cross=74, Gospel=74, The King=74, Muhammad=74, connect=74, initial=74, point=74, a number=74, converge=74, etc.

- Brad Watson, Miami, FL

[edit on 23-10-2009 by Brad Watson]

reply to post by Ophiuchus 13

Jesus was partially a man, yes.

For those of us who believe in Christ, Jesus was 100% man, and 100% Divine. That, in itself, seems hard for many to comprehend. In the end, it comes down to faith, a word that comes from the Latin, fides, meaning TRUST.
Trust is:

firm belief or confidence in the honesty, integrity, reliability, justice, etc. of another person or thing

www.yourdictionary.com...
There are things in the world that we do not fully understand. In the end, we either accept those things, or reject them, based upon our confidence that they seem reasonable.
Personally, I believe that humanity does not have enough reasoning ability, combined with facts, to be able to ascertain with 100% "scientific certainty" the validity of the OP.
As to the question of why the apostles did not immediately write the full extent of Christ's deeds, remember who the apostles were- at least 4 fishermen, a tax collector, a money man, a rabble-rouser, and 5 unknown trades. A writer was not among them, to the best of our knowledge.
In the end, FAITH and TRUST determine whether you believe or disbelieve in Christ. I, for one, have that faith.

keep the good beware of the bad and the bible is not the only book of wisdom
On the other hand Jesus did get it right and a logical man would see life

would be great if we followed his teaching,not the teaching of the churches

as if I may say they are money makers and scams con men .I could do thy same .getting off topic sorry.

reply to post by Ophiuchus 13


What books were written?

Why weren't writters like Malachi and Tobit good enough to stay in when they proclaimed that God was vengeful?

And leading to the most probing question... Can someone honestly love a vengeful god?

The Bible is explained as a book about faith, not polatics.

If we lived our lives by its word then woman would be subversive and we would have a long list of things we as followers would have to do for our "god"... Then... Jesus comes along and compassion's the name of the game...?

If I recall right, Paul who could write, dictatated what he wanted to say to

a scribed.Paul as a mystic ( mystic=one who talks to God )

I must be a Mystic .as i say grace Anyway as I told my son the thought of

going to heaven is a nice thought gives me a warm fuzzy.

reply to post by Jkd Up


The knowledge of good and evil. You cannot decide good and evil for yourself. Hitler did evil and decided that it was good. You cannot do that, good and evil are absolutes.

reply to post by Jkd Up


Jesus' blood is the blood of the New Covenant. Jesus' died to cover for our sins.

We are saved by grace not by works. Many of the prophets in the Old Testament were terrible sinners but they had Faith and it was counted on to them as Righteousness.

reply to post by Kapyong


FIRST COUNCIL OF NICAEA - 325 AD

This council opened on 19 June in the presence of the emperor..

Early Christian Bibles

In 331, Constantine commissioned Eusebius to deliver fifty Bibles for the Church of Constantinople

Gday,

Originally posted by reeferman
FIRST COUNCIL OF NICAEA - 325 AD
This council opened on 19 June in the presence of the emperor..
Early Christian Bibles
In 331, Constantine commissioned Eusebius to deliver fifty Bibles for the Church of Constantinople

Yes,
years after the CoN, Constantine ordered some bibles made - bibles which were DIFFERENT to modern ones (Hermas, Barnabas included.)

Like I said - the CoN had NOTHING to do with choosing the books of the Bible.


K.

reply to post by Jkd Up


I thought they would have desired to pass on the accounts orally at first for obvious reasons. They had seen thier master teacher,that claimed to be the "I Am" before Abraham, rise from the dead. You going to send letters to the temples and synagogues? By the time Paul had his conversion there were established churches that underwent severe persecution. Then there was the whole Peter and Paul argument over circumcision which is early indication of cementing an accurate set of doctrines and teachings while merging ancient scripture with modern events. It wasn't like writing a novel.

You know it wouldn't surprise me a bit if the vatican were hiding scriptures Jesus had written himself though.

Originally posted by Jkd Up
reply to post by Ophiuchus 13

 

If we lived our lives by its word then woman would be subversive and we would have a long list of things we as followers would have to do for our "god"... Then... Jesus comes along and compassion's the name of the game...?

First of all women do not know what really makes them happy. Secondly men in our society are not real men and are not worth being subserviant (did you mean subserviant?) to. But if we were to live Biblically men would be men and women would be women and they would be fulfilled in their roles. Few people will recieve this truth Matthew 19:11 But he said unto them, All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given.

Most evident in the New Testement is Jesus' relationship with his chosen church, his flock. But when Jesus' relates to the pagans and apostates his wrath is still evident.

Matthew 23: 27-33

27Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.

28Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.

29Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,

30And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.

31Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.

32Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.

33Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

Jesus' also rebukes and Chastens the churches in revelations. Your mind is no doubt clouded by all the hippy images you have seen of Jesus. There is of coarse no way of knowing what Jesus' looked like, this is the work of the Holy Spirit because if there were an image of Christ we would all worship it instead of the true living Christ.