The Jesus Conspiracy & why you believe...

I agree that a whole lot of evil deeds are comitted "In God's name" but anyone who calls themselves a Christian, then kills in the name of god, obviously missed the point.

Don't blame god for the crusades, blame ignorance.

The Crusades were ordained by the Church. For the past 1500 years the Catholic Church = Christianity. There was no divide, except those who were in the Church and those who needed to convert or die.

If you tried to publicly suggest a separation between divine will and the will of the Pope at any other time in history you'd have been strung up!

Also consider....how many people did God personally slaughter during Passover? The Flood? Sodom and Gomorrah? What about the pregnant Canaanite women who had their children cut out of their stomachs because they weren't Jews? All at God's command, no?

Originally posted by ImplausibleDeniability
The Crusades were ordained by the Church. For the past 1500 years the Catholic Church = Christianity. There was no divide, except those who were in the Church and those who needed to convert or die.

If you tried to publicly suggest a separation between divine will and the will of the Pope at any other time in history you'd have been strung up!

Also consider....how many people did God personally slaughter during Passover? The Flood? Sodom and Gomorrah? What about the pregnant Canaanite women who had their children cut out of their stomachs because they weren't Jews? All at God's command, no?

The catholic church does not equal Christianity. They do not follow all of the tenets of Jesus.

Alot of Jews were slaughtered at the hands of the Egyptians. But no one talks about that.
The flood happened because the hearts of men (except for Noah and his family) were continually evil.
Sodom and Gommorrah were evil.
Where in the Bible does it say the Canaanite women got their babies cut out by Jews? What context is it in?

[
"The catholic church does not equal Christianity. They do not follow all of the tenets of Jesus".


Is jesus a christian? dont think so.there were no xtians yet during his time. more of a pure blooded jewish rebel.and jewish people christian? they are more likely a close knitted society with a very unique strain of ancient beliefs...in retrospect did jesus really started all this messy religious stuff or was just the bogeyman of the Vatican?

reply to post by OneDivided

But why not believe in his MESSAGE?

I would simply say because if there is a God and you believe in him just as strongly as you believe in Jesus the man, then what Jesus had to preach is a direct contradiction to the Old Testament of God. Following the message of a man over the message of God would be wrong in God's eyes, you would essentially be damning yourself to an eternal hell. For what? A good feeling message from a man who was not God?

reply to post by kettlebellysmith

If you choose not to believe it, then why do so many want to deny me or others the right to believe?

Because you are a danger to yourself and others. I don't think I need to go into detail, it's pretty clear when buildings get hit with planes then babies in Iraq get dusted with white phosphorous.

[edit on 22-10-2009 by reasonable]

Gday,

Originally posted by LordBucket
It wasn't until the council of Nicea in 325AD that work began to consolidate the various writings into one book,

Wrong.
This is a classic urban legend, endlessly repeated around the 'net.

But it's FALSE.

The Council of Nicea had NOTHING to do with compiling the books of the Bible. They did not even discuss it, and we still have their official records:
www.newadvent.org...

Didn't you read the Wiki page you cited?
If you do, you will find it does NOT support your claim.


This urban legend is the myth that will not die!


K.

Gday,

Originally posted by kettlebellysmith
The gospels were indeed written quite a while after Jesus died. But the manuscripts we HAVE are dated at 60 to 100 years after His death.

Wrong.
The earliest MSS are no earlier than 170CE +/- 25 - the tiny fragment (P52).

The earliest large MSS of Gospels date around 200CE (e.g. P75, P66.)


K.


[edit on 22-10-2009 by Kapyong]

Originally posted by LordBucket
reply to post by Jkd Up

 

the Old Testiment was mentioned in the Dead Sea Scrolls,
therefore validating it's historical exsistance. However,
the New Testiment was not mentioned at any time before King Constantine.

Reason being, it didn't exist prior.

Reason being is because all the original manuscripts were USED, read constantly until they were destroyed.
The oldest Bibles are the ones which were created Corrupted and left in storage.

Originally posted by OneDivided
To me, it's not the origins that matter. Jesus taught us how to live at peace with one another. He gave us all the info we need to live fruitful lives. It does not matter to me where the book came from. Wether or not you believe in him as a person, doesn't matter. But why not believe in his MESSAGE?

Laodicean.

reply to post by Jkd Up


You need to learn the difference between the Textus Receptus (underlying the KJV). The Textus receptus is the dilligently putting together of thousands of fragments which ALL line up. All the full manuscripts are those that where doctored and preserved by various various Cults Mystery School and Pagan Political origanizations.

[quote/]Originally posted by ImplausibleDeniability
The Crusades were ordained by the Church. For the past 1500 years the Catholic Church = Christianity. There was no divide, except those who were in the Church and those who needed to convert or die.

If you tried to publicly suggest a separation between divine will and the will of the Pope at any other time in history you'd have been strung up!



People would be burnt at the stake for the heresy of READING THE BIBLE during the crusades.

The crusaders killed arab christians.

Your information is irrelavant. Your premise is so absurdly stupid and shows the twisted state of your deceived mind.

If you want to oppose the catholic church READ THE WORDS OF JESUS.
If you want to reprove the catholic church READ THE BIBLE.

reply to post by OneDivided

When I say Christian I'm talking about the ones who actually read the bible, not the ones who sit In a church and let someone else tell them how to think.

i have to take you to task on this my good friend, really what you're saying is that the wrongs done in religions name where done by people who didn't understand? that's not true at all,

Tomás de Torquemada was a very 'worthy' man, his entire life was devoted to study of the scripture and faithfull worship of the lord - well, when he wasn't tourturing anyone he thought might be a jew, muslim, heratic or athiest of course....

his contemporary and ally Sixtus and his predecessor Pope Nicholas V both supported slavery quiet happily...

Pope Boniface VIII sold forgiveness, 100 years safe from sin for just a simple donation....

Pope Clement V brutally attacked and destoyed the knights templar as a move in a complex game of power politics - they loved the same god, yet had to die...

Pope John XXII was apparently a child molester who commited incest with his children...

Bishop of Ossory in Ireland started the practice of witch burnings in modern christendom...

1367 the Church introduces mortuary tax or "succession duty" entitling it to one-third of deceased's estate...

the list is almost endless, greedy and selfish things done by those who wrote and guard the bible - those few people who COULD read were those who did the most wrong!

these are just a few random examples, good bible reading people doing evil things because of, in part, their religion.

In the modern world we have abolished slavery, created womens lib and now we're trying to treat everyone fairly, its fine to annouce in any forum your politicsl, moral and religious beliefs - these freedoms the church and its flock fought every step of the way, they said they were trying to keep the world a good christian place, however a quick glance at history reminds us that a few hundred years ago i could have been killed for saying im a deist yet alone an athiest!

Read the old testiment story of the danites, how the lord commanded peacefull and unsuspecting people butchered - read revelations, seven plagues, seven trumpets, seven seals and all that - the torture and pain which will poored upon any who dare debate.

Of course we kniw why it's all sevens, because when they wrote the book the men who wrote it only knew about seven planets - The Sun and Moon and the five non-earth planets of our solar system closest to the sun (and also closest to the Earth) all easily visible without a telescope - this sorta suggests doesn't it that the if some guy made the entire solar system he didn't have anything to do with this book.

The bible starts with a simple story im which at the end we're told the clergy must get the best bit of the best animals slaughted when they say so for a multitude of complex and common issues, we then get into some confusing and often contradictory storytelling and a few moral fables before being given the ultimate ultimatum - agree or suffer forever.

Sure the tent of the temple of the lord might not use it's alter for cutting the finest slices of dove, goat and oxen to be carried away behind closed doors and 'made holy' but i'm sure you noticed that most religions get a tax free donation from their flock? this tax on living imposed by christians worldwide was once, back when the bible was the only book most people had heard of. law. You didn't give the church your money, you were a heratic and thus burned...

Ever wonder how many of those witches were conspiracy theorists, tax objectors, phillosophers and people of virtue unable to stand silent while the chuch acted so evil? I worship no alters, poison no wells nor do any other damage to society, indeed i am a productive member of society and yet under the rules of the bible and it's followers i should be killed or at least tourtured eternal when my natural death has come.

I laugh when i hear christians talk of persicution, of intollerance and unfair treatment - i think of that nobel farm girl who for the uneducated love of god and a belief in what was right managed to help her nation win its freedom - how she was burned at the stake for a difference of opinion on the nature of the divine and how later still they took her deeds and stole her name -poor girl confused and misled, her humanity and decency were great and yet due to the vile book some call gospel she had to die suffering, all for her own good of course.... nothing to do with power politics.

The clergy powerlords who make the big moves have never acted like the really believe the book they pedle, i've visited the vaticans gold encrusted rooms -seen its miles of art and fine sculpted things... Thick rope through a small eyelet? I've listed the terrible crimes, the unjust actions and greedy games which every pope has played. The people, villages, civerlizations, books all burnt under roman style decisiveness - leave no one left to oppose you.

Do you really believe that the bible holds some sacred truth or are you simply too scared to take resposibility for your own actions?

I and I alone am responsible for my actions, you say that you were only free when you found christ - this i can believe, i grew up in an area with many drug users - they'll tell me the same thing, the escape from the pressure of being in control - often it's not the drug they like but the exscuse not to be in charge for a while, how often do you hear 'gosh i don't know what i was thinking i was was SO drunk that night...'? it's all the same, a way of pretending just for a moment that you aren't responsible for your actions, i have to tell you this but you are and you always will be - thats what makes you you, lol the bible even says this but its one of those bits everyone ignores because it doesn't quiet fit right in their comforting little room.

We won't get a reward for obeying, our reward is living and so too is our payment - we repay the word which created us by doing what we were created to do - to live, to experience the world - we thinking being are able to understand and enjoy what we see, this is what we must do - pretending that this is all some horrible mashination of some sky wizards desires might make you feel better but it could well lead to the world falling apart.

Science has cured many sick people, i will most likely not get any of the terrible illnesses which have killed my relatives living back when church was state - i will eat well and stay clean and healthy for longer. These things are not only helping me better enjoy my existence but also helping others, no reward is offered and nothing compels people to do them - is this not more beautiful that that ivory tower god and his centurys of war, famine, plauges and violence?

We did these things by working together to understand and enjoy our existence, sure many church goes, monks and general christians were involved - it was however a slow progress we managed to work out amoung ourselves, the great book of wisdom which was once said to be complete never even mentions electrocardiograms! If something as vital as modern medicine can be missing from the bible's science teachings (and it has many, most of the leveticus laws are about food hygene, of course modern science has shown that it's not very good advice but still they tried...) then what of modern philosophy and sociology? Would the bible be different if the inaliable human rights the world (mostly) agrees on had been debated to the extent they have now? would the ten commandments have been different if womens lib and abolision had happened? would jesus still preach what he preached had he seen the last 2000 years of history?

reply to post by Kapyong

The Council of Nicea had NOTHING to do with compiling the books of the Bible

so.... who did? which meeting between which powermongers is irrelivent - the fact remains the bible is certainly the work of man and thus not just falabul but contemptably rotten.

Originally posted by NatureBoy
reply to post by OneDivided

 

When I say Christian I'm talking about the ones who actually read the bible, not the ones who sit In a church and let someone else tell them how to think.

Tomás de Torquemada was a very 'worthy' man, his entire life was devoted to study of the scripture and faithfull worship of the lord - well, when he wasn't tourturing anyone he thought might be a jew, muslim, heratic or athiest of course....

Luke 16:15
And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.

Your reasoning is void because you are using the measure of men rather than the measure of scripture. Jesus saw fit to save the theif on the cross, and to damn the Pharisees (ultra religous before men) to the worst parts of hell.

The truth is that a true Christian is an unworthy hopeless sinner who has been saved by the grace of God.