An attack on America by Europe

Originally posted by dooper
reply to post by Donny 4 million

 

You can't be that dense.

The current prosperity was certainly not due to the slaughter of the Poles jointly be Russia and Germany in WWII.

Save your dense negativity for you and yours.
Stop ducking and weaving and tell us what the reason for the renewed prosperity is.
You said originally there was none.

Originally posted by plumranch
reply to post by watzlav

 

I want to reply. Living in germany I can see a shift within our politics towards russia. Our newly elected government seems to have strong interest in russia as a partner in europe.

Europe and the EU is in change, Germany is in change. Germany is in a key position. Germany has production and many other resources but not energy. Russia has the energy.

Russia considers itself to be part of Europe but historically has been at war with Europe several times.

Russia seems to be rethinking its relationship with the world, the US and Europe. Russia is a sinking ship without the cooperation of the EU and the US because much of what Russia can offer is energy and resources:
Background Note: Russia

The mineral-packed Ural Mountains and the vast oil, gas, coal, and timber reserves of Siberia and the Russian Far East make Russia rich in natural resources. However, most such resources are located in remote and climatically unfavorable areas that are difficult to develop and far from Russian ports. Nevertheless, Russia is a leading producer and exporter of minerals, gold, and all major fuels. Natural resources, especially energy, dominate Russian exports. Ninety percent of Russian exports to the United States are minerals or other raw materials.

Germany is wise to cozy up to Russia where much of the energy especially natural gas is coming from!

[edit on 28/10/09 by plumranch]

I am in agreement with you guys. I have been checking the backgrounds of the major players and their ideologies. A Russia /US and I hope German loose confederation is a good idea.
BTW I am a American Vetran of Foriegn War.

**** ATTENTION ****

Knock of the personal commentary about one another.

Thank You.

reply to post by Donny 4 million

I never said there was no prosperity for Germany or Russia.

I merely pointed out that this moment isn't the first time that Germany and Russia cooperated on anything.

If you knew history, you'd know the same thing.

To ask why there is currently a hope of prosperity is like asking why is fire hot.

I'm a combat veteran, decorated for valor, and that has no bearing on my ability to post, nor does it give my opinion any more weight.

I only addressed a suggestion that for the first time Germany and Russia may engage in a joint effort - by pointing out their last major joint effort.

Originally posted by dooper
reply to post by Donny 4 million

 

I never said there was no prosperity for Germany or Russia.

I merely pointed out that this moment isn't the first time that Germany and Russia cooperated on anything.

If you knew history, you'd know the same thing.

To ask why there is currently a hope of prosperity is like asking why is fire hot.

I'm a combat veteran, decorated for valor, and that has no bearing on my ability to post, nor does it give my opinion any more weight.

I only addressed a suggestion that for the first time Germany and Russia may engage in a joint effort - by pointing out their last major joint effort.

Dooper
Yes, this isn't the first time Germany has sidled up to Russia.
In 1939, Germany and Russia agreed to attack and split up Poland. Germany wanted what they wanted, and Russia got a piece too.
It just didn't work out real well for Poland and Russia the last time around.

Donny
I disagreed, said they are prosperous today. I might add and for awhile at that.

Dooper
You can't be that dense.
ATTACK

Dooper
The current prosperity was certainly not due to the slaughter of the Poles jointly be Russia and Germany in WWII.

Donny
This is just your opinion you do not support this.

Dooper
I never said there was no prosperity for Germany or Russia.



Donny
(above) You said things did not work out so well (what the heck does that mean) you were talking POLAND/ Russia.
not Russia/Germany

Dooper
If you knew history, you'd know the same thing.
ATTACK

Donny
I know history. Maybe you are confused?
I never said anything to you about soldiering or msdals.

reply to post by Donny 4 million

It's like we're talking about two different subjects! Tell me how Russia and Germany are prosperous TODAY because they ganged up and slaughtered Poles.

Tell us how Germany is prosperous today because of their attacks first on Poland, and then Russia.

Tell us how Russia is more prosperous TODAY for splitting Poland with Nazi Germany, before they were knifed in the back and in turn attacked by Nazi Germany.

Tell me how it worked out for Poland.

I really want to hear this.

I originally just noted that this will not be the first time that Germany and Russia cooperated in a venture - taking over Poland.

And you did mention that you were an American Veteran of Foreign War, as though that's going to lend your mistaken claim some credit.

Honestly I cannot follow your discussion about Germany/Russia too far.

One reason, why Germany rose up after WWII was, that it was in the interest of the USA to have a strong allie at the border of the Warsaw Pact and supported our country in many ways, well knowing that the Russian tanks - together with East-German tanks - would reach our country first, if the case of cases would happen.

Today's Germany is one of the strongest partners in the EU and is integrated in the Western world, even the former GDR. There is no reason to think, that there could be a German-Russian collaboration other than on the basis of economic interests and keeping relations friendly - to the benefit of the EU and the Western world.

But I wonder, if this all fits to this thread.

Being somehow off topic anyway, let me tell you, dooper, that your family history seems to be very interesting. I just read at wikipedia, that most Americans claim to have German ancestors and as a genealogist I had many contacts to US-Americans, with whom I could share informations.
Btw.: Would you mind to share that photo, you mentioned? I am really very interested in that part of history and would like to know more about it.

Okay, back to the topic of Europeans attacking the USA...

[edit on 31-10-2009 by Siddharta]

Originally posted by dooper
reply to post by Donny 4 million

 

It's like we're talking about two different subjects! Tell me how Russia and Germany are prosperous TODAY because they ganged up and slaughtered Poles.

I said nothing about slaughtering anybody. This is your speak.

Tell us how Germany is prosperous today because of their attacks first on Poland, and then Russia.

Do you mean the Bolshevik/Communists?

Tell us how Russia is more prosperous TODAY for splitting Poland with Nazi Germany, before they were knifed in the back and in turn attacked by Nazi Germany.

These are your thoughts not mine. Feel free to explain yourself.

Tell me how it worked out for Poland.I really want to hear this.

Poland, the home of some of my ancestors is doing quite well thanks.
It is what I continue to tell you.

I originally just noted that this will not be the first time that Germany and Russia cooperated in a venture - taking over Poland.

Not sure what you are saying here. Are you saying they may be planning to take over Poland again?

And you did mention that you were an American Veteran of Foreign War, as though that's going to lend your mistaken claim some credit.

I mentioned it not to you. Whats your problem.

reply to post by Siddharta


I don't think you are off topic at all. Germany is quite European. And America is quite German as well. I think the point that is being missed is
---- For all or for the little differences America and Europe have-----
The powers that be--- Would like to capitalize on the differences and past bad blood--- To drive wedges and divide a big group of common people that have their number.
IMO that is what the political rat race is all about GLOBALLY. They are in a panic from being found out and need to pass every corrupt indecent law as quickly as possible before we shut them down. The officials that strip us of our rights and force us to go kill each other.

Originally posted by Donny 4 million

IMO that is what the political rat race is all about GLOBALLY. They are in a panic from being found out and need to pass every corrupt indecent law as quickly as possible before we shut them down. The officials that strip us of our rights and force us to go kill each other.

So what you're saying is that you believe if they just hurry up and get their silly-assed laws passed, their problems will just go away, and people who find themselves suddenly and unjustifyably "criminalized" will just say "Oh darn! We were gonna get 'em good, and shut 'em right down, but now they've passed a new LAW, so we might as well just go home. We were all set to eat their lunch, but can't do anything about it now, on account of this new LAW!"

If that's what you think, I can tell right off that you've never hung out much with dangerous or desperate folk.

If a tipping point is reached, ain't no law on the planet can stop what comes. Especially against "panicked" folks, like your view of officialdom.

If we are still talking about Europeans vs. Americans than it really would be ridiculous to talk about any threat.

reply to post by nenothtu


If you agree with the principal here, then thanks.
Let me see what you think of this.
America is the unique player in the European theater. Australia and South Africa count as some others.
Say wild cards. Say a country mostly composed of those that fled the wrongs of Europe for what ever reason.
The reason it is being pushed by the PTB is ---as Americans we have become more complacent than Europe because it is just fairly recently that we forgot about Communism. And not to mention the resources, we as Americans still hold sway over. The Communists can't exist without folks to do there bidding,
They have stood on the necks of our European Brothers in the past. They also need America to see that it does not happen to them again. Factor Russia as European. Well some of it is.
Your comment about dangerous people is silly.
I was married twice. And taught them to pack.
Yes there have been tipping points in the past.
That is why I prescribe a large dose of Marxist understanding to all I encounter.

[edit on 31-10-2009 by Donny 4 million]

[edit on 31-10-2009 by Donny 4 million]

Originally posted by dooper
reply to post by Donny 4 million

 

I never said there was no prosperity for Germany or Russia.

I merely pointed out that this moment isn't the first time that Germany and Russia cooperated on anything.

If you knew history, you'd know the same thing.

To ask why there is currently a hope of prosperity is like asking why is fire hot.

I'm a combat veteran, decorated for valor, and that has no bearing on my ability to post, nor does it give my opinion any more weight.

I only addressed a suggestion that for the first time Germany and Russia may engage in a joint effort - by pointing out their last major joint effort.

you know I love you since we have the same military training, but why should we not trust the Russians!

Even here in Sweden we have joint exercises with the big bad wolf these days, and I actually had become to like the guys - they are great most of them!

It's a New world Order right now, and why do I still have to be afraid of my Russian Neighbours?

They aren't vampires you know?

Anyway! I may be naive because I look for the best in people, but I think it's time for Russia to take part of Europe once for all!

Listen! they have always been a big part of Europe - so why not working with them?

reply to post by Chevalerous

Chev, this thing kind of got twisted around.

A comment was made that (for the first time?) Germany and Russia were going to joint-venture.

My attempt at a smart-assed comment was that this won't be the first joint effort - that the last time occurred in 1939.

I have zero problem with Russia. Absolutely none.

I think if Russia could get over their habitual national suspicion of everything and everyone, we could have some really good friends.

I don't see the Russians as our enemies here in the States. I think Russia and the US (and China) share a very dangerous common enemy - one without borders.

Sorry I ever decided to smart off.

Serves me right.


[edit on 31-10-2009 by dooper]

reply to post by poedxsoldiervet


In reply to the OP, I might be a European trying to defend my continent from all sorts of PC white people are bad allegations, but actually, there is no way you can bring up "comparisons" between the US and Europe that happened prior to 1776, since before that date, the United States simply did not exist.

If you only count various "crimes against humanity" or generally cruel and violent behavior/policies that supposedly occurred after the declaration of independence, you'll also probably see substantially leveled results: Europe vs. the United States, but such is life.

If, on the other hand, you also had some way of weighing in the limited effectiveness or lower quantitative 'cruelty span' of various primitive peoples or the Muslim world, mostly due to technological backwardness, I suspect you would probably also find that Christian Europe by no means can be considered especially mean, oppressive, cruel or violent when compared to other cultures, in fact, quite probably to the contrary.

Simply put, if the Blacks had invented gun powder, rudder and compass, they would have conquered the world (instead of just selling off other Africans to European traders). There is no reason to think it would in any way have looked any prettier.

[edit on 3-11-2009 by Tussilago]

Originally posted by Donny 4 million
Your comment about dangerous people is silly.
I was married twice. And taught them to pack.

"Packing" or not "packing" is irrelevant. Dangerous people are dangerous because of what lies between their ears, not what they have in hand. A man with a 155mm howitzer, but who is afraid to use it, is not nearly as dangerous as I am, with just a sharp stick.

I've been married twice, too. Under NO circumstances would I arm those women, as they were far too dangerous already!

That's what I meant. You evidently haven't been around very many dangerous people, to think that some silly assed law being passed will back them all down. It won't, because there are definitely folks in this world who will act contrary to any law when their fat is in the fire.

Yes there have been tipping points in the past.
That is why I prescribe a large dose of Marxist understanding to all I encounter.

I'm not sure what Marxism has to do with it. Many, many tipping points have been reached with nary a Marxist in sight.

If you could clarify your post, I could respond more appropriately.

Absolutely shocked this entirely pointless, bigot driven post got this far. I'm beginning to feel this site has had it's best issue raised and is now left with only thinly veiled ignorance.

And to claim Europeans for some reason are incapable of understanding a certain type of patriotism!? Seriously, aren't we all human? Last time I checked we all was, so what on earth other than ignorance makes any man feel conviction when saying "those europeans just don't understand patriotism like we do."

Slayer69, I used to follow your posts closely, you've seemed very intelligent. But now I'm almost left feeling that your nothing more than a troll driven by nothing more than what you've been fed.

I may as well join in this pointless crap and say, thank christ I'm not American! What an absolute joke many of you've shown yourselves to be.

What can you do but laugh!?!?!?

Truelly, lost for words. Absolutely totally and astonishingly poorly produced thread that's only resulted in many people having lost a lot of credibility.

OP, Think of alternative approaches next time please. Thinly veiled attacks don't wash. And don't try f-in fobbing us off with more thinly veiled playground poopoo about feeling forced to post it. Ever heard of rising above it? Yanks are and will be the target of jealousy and hate for a few years yet.

# this site. What a joke it is these days. Enjoy.



[edit on 7-11-2009 by Sed Non Credo]

reply to post by nenothtu


OK lets stick with Europe and America. They both have 155's and sticks.
So what is the danger that threatens each?
Well it is Communism raising it's ugly head and trying to break the bonds that the Europeans and America have shared for centuries. Russia has been cleaned up and they understand what America is up against.
Who is dangerous? The covert ones are the most dangerous. Next dangerous are the appointed high level positions. Then the elected. You and I are as dangerous as cotton balls.
If you don't understand Marx or his followers, then you don't understand Communism. If you don't understand Communism then you don't understand what Europe, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, America and many more countries are up against.

Regardless of History, isn't the whole point of Joint Exercise with historic enemy's a little weird?? I would argue that it proves the existence of a World Government regardless of anything else.

The thing to remember with all arguments of "how could Russia and Germany" all of a sudden get along it really isn't that much of a reach. What do you think happened when the Wall was taken down....do you really think that Russian influence just vanished?? This is bigger than a wall coming down.

Bush is best friends with Putan and the German Chancellor...please.

reply to post by hoochymama


Well the bush family has a firm connection with the Nazi's.
And where did the Red Star and the hammer and sickle disappear to?
Care to venture an answer to that?
Edited for space.

Flag of the Soviet Union
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Name The Red Banner[1]
Use Civil and state flag and ensign
Proportion 1:2
Adopted November 12, 1923 (original version)
August 15, 1980 (last version used)
Design A plain red flag with a golden hammer and sickle and a gold-bordered red star in its upper canton.

The flag of the Soviet Union consisted of a plain red flag, with a hammer crossed with a sickle (the hammer and sickle) and a red star in the upper canton. The hammer and sickle symbolized the nation's workers and peasants while the red star represented the rule of the Communist Party.

The first flag with the red star, hammer and sickle was adopted on November 12, 1923. In 1955, a statute on the flag was adopted which resulted in a change of the hammer's handle length and the shape of the sickle. A final modification to the flag was adopted in 1980 in which the color was brightened to light red. The flag continued to be a national flag until the collapse of the Soviet Union.

It is said that the red field is symbolism of the blood that has been spilled by workers and farmers. It honors the red flag of the Paris Commune of 1871.[2] The ideology of communism can be seen from the flag. The red star and hammer and sickle represent communism and socialism. Not counting Hungary or Lithuania, the Soviet flag has not been banned by any state and is still used in Russia. The flag of the Soviet Union consisted of a plain red flag. A gold hammer is crossed with a gold sickle which are placed beneath of a gold-bordered red star. This symbol is then placed in the upper left canton of the red flag.

The hammer symbolizes the nation's industrial workers (proletarians) while the sickle symbolizes the nation's agricultural workers (peasants)—who together formed the state. The red star represented the rule of the Communist Party. The back side of the flag is officially just red, without the symbols. However, in most cases, the symbols were on the reverse side in the reverse order.[3]

The flag's design was statuted in 1955, which gave a clear way to define and create the flag. This resulted in a change of the hammer's handle length and the shape of the sickle. The adopted statute stated that:[4]

The ratio of width to length of the flag is 1:2.
Hammer and sickle are in a square with side equal to ¼ of the flag height. Sharp tip of the sickle lies in the center of the upper side of the square, handles of hammer and sickle rest in bottom corners of the square. Length of the hammer and its handle is ¾ of the square diagonal.
Five-pointed star is inscribed into a circle with a diameter of ⅛ of the flag height, the circle is tangent to the upper side of the square.
Distance of the vertical axis of star, hammer and sickle from the flagstaff is ⅓ of the flag height. Distance from the upper side of the flag to the center of the star is ⅛ of the flag height.
The final design of the flag was adopted in 1980. The design was kept the same except that the background color was changed. The color was brightened from a near-burgundy crimson to a light to medium red.

[edit] History


Second Soviet flag: 1:2 ratio
November 12, 1923—August 19, 1955


Third Soviet flag: 1:2 ratio
August 19, 1955—August 15, 1980
During the establishment of the Russian SFSR, Vladimir Lenin and his colleagues had considered the inclusion of a sword symbol in addition to the hammer and sickle as part of the state seal on which the flag was eventually based. The idea was dismissed as too visually aggressive. Lenin apparently said "A sword is not our symbol."[5]

The first official flag was adopted in December 1922 at the First Congress of Soviets of the USSR. It was agreed that the red banner 'was transformed from the symbol of the Party to the symbol of a state, and around that flag gathered the peoples of the soviet republics to unite into one state - the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics'. On December 30, 1922, the Congress adopted a Declaration and Agreement on the establishment of the USSR. Article 22 of the Agreement states: 'the USSR has a flag, coat of arms and a state seal.' The description of the first flag was given in the 1924 Soviet Constitution, accepted in the second session of the Executive Committee (CIK) of the USSR on July 6, 1923. The text of article 71 states: 'The state flag of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics consists of a red or scarlet field with states coat of arms'. It was ordered with the unusual ratio of 4:1 in proportion and consisted of a red flag with the state coat of arms in the center. However, such a flag was never mass produced. This flag was the official flag for four months, and was replaced as the official flag by the more familiar hammer and sickle design during the third session of the CIK of the USSR on November 12, 1923.

In the third session of the CIK of the USSR, the description of Soviet flag in the Constitution was changed, and article 71 was edited to be: 'The state flag of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics consists of a red or scarlet field, and in the canton a golden sickle and hammer, and a red five-pointed star bordered in gold above them. The ratio of width to length is 1:2.' On August 19, 1955 "Statute on the State Flag of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics" was adopted by a decision of the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR. This resulted in a change of the hammer's handle length and the shape of the sickle. A final modification to the flag was adopted on August 15, 1980, which changed the flag field into a bright red. These modifications stayed into use until the disintegration of the USSR on 25 December 1991, in which the flag ceased to be a national flag.

Does it seem strange that when the Russians were not Soviets they enjoyed a greater harmony with Europe and America. When Russia became the USSR, they were America's arch enemies. Now back to just Russians and things are becoming all warm and cuddly again?