The Conspiracy of American Political Peril

reply to post by 27jd
I think you are right it's a blow to their egos so they are upset,they can't imagine being sent to a distant part of the forum since they are so important to ATS.

reply to post by mike dangerously


Psychological speculations have no reasonable place in this discussion. Please refrain from blaming the ego's of people you do not know.

This is the marginalization I am talking about.

My gut reaction about separating the BS into a topic list specifically for BS was agreement. After I thought about it, it just didn't feel right.

We are ATS, we are better than those that seek control over us, we will not stoop to their level.

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter....

I appreciate the desire to clear the political baiting and trolling out of the forums and into its own category. What I don't like is the subjectiveness of the criteria on what gets moved to the "madness" forum and what does not.

Some of us are in genuine agreement or disagreement with the powers that be and we occasionally like to make our voices heard.

Now, if our voices rise too loudly toward one camp or another, we can look forward to being tarred with the label of "madness" as our threads of genuine concern are denigrated by those who may disagree with the validity of our opinions.

This is a slippery slope my friends....a very slippery slope.....

reply to post by DINSTAAR
It's not marginalization to give a topic it's own separate forum.Look at the other forums here I don't see any one suffering from being"marginalized."

Originally posted by mike dangerously
reply to post by DINSTAAR

 

It's not marginalization to give a topic it's own separate forum.Look at the other forums here I don't see any one suffering from being"marginalized."

It is absolutely marginalizing when you label the forum as such and the explanation for opening the new forum is to fence in the threads that the staff labels as BS.

Bottom line, if a thread does not interest you... don't read it.

reply to post by DINSTAAR
If anyone wants to whine about one of the so-called parties they now have a place to do that.OS is not exiling them from the site despite what some think they acted like the partisan clowns that they are and paid the price.I seem to remember several posts about the T&C regarding political debate. This forum sholud have been here from day one.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord
Disclaimer: As elsewhere!

Explanation: S&F!

I just noticed something and I have a suggestion to make.

I noticed that this new forum is labeled US Political Madness and I as an Australian feel that my own country also suffers from the same madness and therefor I suggest the forum be renamed along the lines of Global Political Madness, so as to become inclusive for those members such as myself who feel left out in the cold currently so to speak.

Personal Disclosure: I never realized what absolute BS you and the other 3 Amigo's had to put up with! Thanks far beyond my ability to express for allowing these tools to expose themeselves as the spanners in the works!

reply to post by OmegaLogos
A magic idea OL! Global political madness would be interesting! I would like to see if the political discourse of other nations have hit as low a point as it has here in the Sates.

reply to post by mike dangerously


Perhaps... There's a whole lot of political bickering going on in the Netherlands at least. And here on Aruba. And I can be sure in Venezuela as well. So it's not a strictly U.S. phenomenon.

reply to post by mike dangerously


I had a longer post but lost it by accidentally hitting backspace. I just stated all of the previously available political topic lists as well as other topic lists that could be used (rant, disinfo etc) and said that this one is redundant and is only there for the sake of systematically marginalizing ATSers who the staff see as 'mad'. I have a philosophic concern when the site manipulates the content subjectively. ATS is about freedom of information, even false information.

What site would this be if the staff could judge someone as 'mad'? ATS is Ufologists, journalists, conspiracy buffs, researchers, abductees, athiests, Christians, Muslims, Americans, Chinese, British, Aussies, everywhere else, and we can all come together and reasonably discuss almost anything without worry of being ostracized. We need to embrace this as one of the most intellectually open places on the net and in the world. Where else can you talk about being abducted and be taken seriously by real people?

I commend the staff for actively pursuing a way to make the forum better, but I must beg the staff to find a better way to deal with posts and threads that make people say things like 'dark days' and 'ATS just isn't the same'.

reply to post by DINSTAAR


Where do you see us labeling it BS??? But besides that. Like you say, it's the job of the reader to label things to themselves, but it's our job as staff to ensure civilized discussion on any subject in which members respect each others point of view and abide to the Terms and Conditions of the site. And to focus on actually conspiracies. That's the main point.



And thanks for the stats link. I've forgotten about it. As we can see, it's mainly conspiracy related material that brings people to ATS. I'm surprised that the chitchat forum is that much visited though...

reply to post by TheBandit795

Where do you see us labeling it BS?

First off, the name of the Topic List is not accidental.

Second, from the original post

This is why we've formed the new forum, "US Political Madness," to contain the disease (as best we can) to one area of the site. Since the divisive political atmosphere is a result of this conspiratorial pestilence, all new threads covering american politics should be initiated in the new forum. The only exceptions will be straight-up news stories that cover events in US politics -- example: "Obama cabinet meets over North Korea."

The forum was specifically created to contain something subjectively defined. Not only this, all the threads in here belong in other topic lists. Its redundant and there are better ways to deal with this. My first post on this thread had an idea definitely worth trying. As well as that idea, the reader/poster should be able to remove annoying threads from their list of threads. Have an option to not show a thread.

reply to post by mike dangerously
Disclaimer: As elsewhere!

Explanation: I greatly appreciate your supportive kudo's.

Personal Disclosure: A handfull of St*rs for you!

P.S. Yep the Federal Opposition in the form of the Australian National/Liberal coalition is in tatters in a very similar way to how the GOP is now after its own recent Federal election losses and the Aussie MSM has KRudd on its veiwing glasses [pun intended] that have totally distorted the common Australian Publics view on politics as a whole. A recent ABC tv [note aussie MSM gov funded free to air channel] parody series called the Hollowmen was so accurate as to possibly be confused as a real documentary!

OL breaks out into song..."All the jesters and the clowns .... They'll make you smile , they'll make you frown! ..... they'll make you laugh they'll make you cry , they'll make you wonder why ..... about TPTB lies !!! :shk: "

reply to post by DINSTAAR
That's what makes ATS a great forum we all know BS when we see it,unless of course you are so totally invested in the system that to call something BS is just mind blowing we all know the game is fixed perhaps these posters from both sides of the political divide grow up and become aware that both their teams have poisoned the atmosphere but,that would mean owning up to past mistakes and no one is willing to do that.



[edit on 103131p://4026 by mike dangerously]

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


Dear Sir, a letter of definition if you will;

I, StoneGarden, compel no denial or refusal to identify incorrectly, the circulating and valid at present circumstances or conditions that surround ATS. I understand1 overspread views about social relationships involving authority or power with feeling a need to see others suffer, is something that ensues from an interconnected and relatively extended secret plan with intent to carry out a harmful act.

I agree that, for an indefinitely long period of time, ATS members have tried unsuccessfully to bring this knowledge that is readily available to anyone and everyone in topics and all responses to them located on this website2, and that further action was necessary.

I agree that this corruption is so difficult to understand, decipher and is highly likely to do more harm than good. So there was a natural tendency and obligation to examine it, in order to note the similarities of a highly developed abnormal growth3 that would have been detrimental to good health of this social relationship among humans, if allowed to continue. I am "one who has an insatiable interest or devotion to information about recent events or happenings by all forms of media"4. I am a seeker of truth, and it is very discouraging to know of, and not quite grasp the political aspect of this truth.

However,

I am not "a politician who belongs to a small clique that controls a political party for private rather than public ends"5, or one who is actively involved in politics, particularly party politics. I do not react spontaneously in the expected manner of deep hatred6 in any way of looking at things, not of the same opinion as my own.

I regrettably concur that this corruption has overshadowed the subjects of discussion and the arrangement of such here on ATS... which is a website that, hypothetically, should not be affected by any given influence. I myself have found it very difficult to trade illusion for fact at times. This majority of individuals that appear to be the guilty parties involved as mentioned above, are those who indefinitely continue to spread such corruption in these discussions, into an exact distorted version of reality portrayed by our prevailing current of thought, influence, or active media sources.

Furthermore, a distinct part of a whole here at ATS, would rather remain ignorant to see this corruption for what it is. Inoculation in this case, is a preemptive tactic in which one party attempts to foresee and neutralize potentially damaging criticism from another party by being the first to confront troublesome issues, whereby I agree to the terms and conditions.
I hereby understand, that the present action moderators have considered and enacted with regard to acknowledged criteria, was to organize or arrange said corruption and discussions into the new "US Political Madness" forum on this website, to the best of their ability. I understand that it does not infringe my rights to freedom of speech, and agree to its terms and conditions.

Since the disruptive and unsettling political mood is a consequence of this characteristic of conspirator corruption, I understand that, any news articles involving the American Government should originate in this new forum. With exception to undiluted news stories that involve said United States. -- for example: "Obama Says Decision on Afghanistan Coming in ‘Weeks’"7, which have designated and current forums.

I understand the new forum will operate under "close staff scrutiny", and that this notice will be shown on all topics:

This forum is dedicated to the discussion of the state of divisive politics in the US including political ideology, politicians, political figures, politics in the media, and speculation of conspiracy theories related to the divisive state. Participants should be aware that this forum is under close staff scrutiny. Because of the inherent distrust of government by conspiracy theorists, discussion topics and follow-up responses in this forum will likely tend to be highly critical of the current administration.

I hereby acknowledge and heed your warning, and I agree to refrain from political sniping... far from it. And I will not engage in partisan hate. I understand that the same rules, as always, apply -- and that being tagged with a "Political Trolling" offense equals two "red flag" warnings.

Thank you for addressing this issue SkepticOverlord, and making things clearer.
Starred and Flagged.

StoneGarden



1 "We shall never understand the natural environment until we see it as a living organism" - Paul Brooks
2 "in threads such as:" - SkepticOverlord
3 "When lymphoma occurs, cells in the lymphatic system grow abnormally. They divide too rapidly and grow without any order or control." - Kate Kretschmann: please forgive the exploitive use of Answers.com
4&5 "news junkies," "political hacks," - SkepticOverlord
6"Hatred, for the man who is not engaged in it, is a little like the odor of garlic for one who hasn't eaten any" - Jean Rostand
7"Obama:Afghanistan Decision in 'Coming Weeks’" - Associated Press

ps. I agree with this move, and before anyone jumps on me for rambling on like a madman... If you actually read this post, you will understand it's context.

reply to post by DINSTAAR


You said yourself that it is close to censorship.
Maybe this is a blessing in disguise.
We just need a NEW ATS Clone site with a different name.
Call it: Q Clearance.com
or Above Q Clearance.com
AQC.com........I like the sound of that.
Republicans Welcome!
Independents Welcome!
Democrats also Welcome!
Bob Lazar said he received a security clearance above Q clearance
while working at S4 / Area 51.
With all the republicans gone, there can be really long pro Obama
threads that go on and on forever. - Liberal Monologues -

[edit on 13-10-2009 by Eurisko2012]

[edit on 13-10-2009 by Eurisko2012]

Originally posted by DINSTAAR
The forum was specifically created to contain something subjectively defined.

Not quite the case.

Judging by the responses in this thread, the comments within many other threads on ATS, and the speculation of many respected conspiracy theorists outside ATS, the concept of a "divide and distract" conspiracy as defined by the intense partisan political divide is a given.

This is, after all, a conspiracy theory social content community. Our primary focus is that of conspiracies. As such, we categorize the conspiracies, or conspiracy/secrecy-related, subjects as needed via a collection of topical forums.

With that in mind, this forum -- defining the madness of the partisan political divide -- has been long overdue.

Those with a mind to focus on conspiracy theories are applauding the effort. Those of a mind to continue the hateful rhetoric and knee-jerk vitriol are not. It's difficult to accept that your passions have been expertly manipulated, I understand that. However, we are a conspiracy site, and we will treat what we feel are conspiracies, as conspiracies.

reply to post by DINSTAAR
Disclaimer: As elsewhere!

Explanation: RE: "First off, the name of the Topic List is not accidental. "

And I note that the SkunkWorks and [HOAX] forums also do not have accidental names! I personally endured my "Amish inspired, Quake and Volcano powered, Space launch systems" thread [NOT linked out of respect] being moved from the Science and Technology forum to the utter stinkyness of the SkunkWorks and I was not chuffed by this at all. But then I have only myself to blame as I personally starred the 1st few replies that were all condescending or jovial in nature purely because I appreciated them bumping it up the recent threads list and for no other reason. This of course resulted in its corruption from science to pseudo science and my attempts to recalibrate a course direction were by then a futile and vain in attempt! My intent was not stinky but I let it get that way and was subsequently APPROPRIATELY mod'ed! Is this new forum setting a precedent previously unheard of upon ATS? Nope!

Moving on I also noted your statement to the effect of "The forum was specifically created to contain something subjectively defined." and this really is stretching it a bit to far and I have to respectly disagree due to the philosophical basics of stoicism which define a simple 3 tier accurate ruler to measure ALL posts and threads by! They are LOGOS or an appeal to rational logical thinking backed by meeting a definable burden of proof! Next is PATHOS or an appeal to emotion which is purely subjective and finally there is ETHOS which is an appeal to someone or somethings reputation or lack of reputation, which also is a purely subjective realm! Any POLITICAL posts or threads that contain either of the latter two tiers of philosophical stoicism would automatically qualify for this forum! Care to refute?

Personal Disclosure: I'm quite disturbed that you stated that "One must remain objective to uncover the truth and not stifle the voice of others, even if they are controlled by the oppressors. I understand this isn't censorship but its close." and you go on later to state that "It is absolutely marginalizing when you label the forum as such and the explanation for opening the new forum is to fence in the threads that the staff labels as BS."...where as you had previously to that 2nd statement I identified of yours stated " I think a system where you can X-mark a thread as BS would be more effective." and went on to post "My gut reaction about separating the BS into a topic list specifically for BS was agreement. After I thought about it, it just didn't feel right."! Where do you actually stand on this issue? Because I would just like to show you to yourself RE: "As well as that idea, the reader/poster should be able to remove annoying threads from their list of threads. Have an option to not show a thread." and yet you had previously posted "This is the marginalization I am talking about." which concerned the psychological speculations of members on members and futher more you reiterate what SO had already posted "Bottom line, if a thread does not interest you... don't read it.".....HOW ABOUT YOU TAKE YOUR OWN ADVICE and NOT psychologically speculate on the motives of the owners or the mods!

P.S. OL is officially insane by order of the Australian Federal Government and I have always been upfront about this whilst I have been on ATS and it has never caused me any problems in posting posts or threads and I note I'm earning more kudos lately in the form of Applause, Flags and Stars, so my madness is irrelevant as its a matter of ETHOS and not LOGOS!

Edited to add P.S.

[edit on 13-10-2009 by OmegaLogos]

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


So is it fair to say that those of us who primariy want to discuss politics are at best a tolerated nuisance unless it directly correlates to a conspiracy?

It is ok if the answer is yes. I just want to know how you feel.

If we are kind of a pain could you suggest some other forums we would be welcome at, beause I honestly don't know enough to make a good decision on another forum? You can u2u me if you think that is more appropriate.

Thanks

reply to post by StinkyFeet


If you google "political discussion boards" you'll find many forums with the sole purpose of political discussion. If you were to try and post a thread on one of those boards about possible government involvement in 9/11, or JFK, or whatever, i'd bet your thread wouldn't go too far. I don't understand all the feigned confusion, this is a conspiracy site. They're not even banning primarily political discussion, but they have every right not to want it filling the front pages.