The Conspiracy of American Political Peril

I'm late to the thread but think this is a great decision

I love the idea of being able to "filter out" some of the wackier US politics threads. I'm not American, I don't live in the USA and whilst it might be a magnificent nation in all things I'm not really interested in the nuts & bolts of your politics, as most of you aren't in Scotland's, where I live.

For those of you who object to this change, just revisit "recent posts" and think about ATS where most of the threads were about Scottish politics, Scottish politicians ... you'd be bored to tears within only a few hours (if that).

Well that's what us non-US folks have had to put up with for years ... and we've stuck by ATS through thick & thin ... give it a try. Might be a winner.

You know... I just thought of something... maybe this discussion, is in this forum... to help contain.. or single out... some of the voices of dissent - and or madness...

Call me crazy... but it's a theory... lol
(playing the x-files/unsolved mysteries/twilight zone/current affair music all mashed up into one glorious melody)

reply to post by SkepticOverlord

In response to you seeing the Freedom we enjoy at a NFL game, would you rather it be in Church, or maybe in school, or lacking those two options, maybe at the park where you rented a pavillion for a kids birthday?
I think what you saw was an expression of
American Liberty at work. We as a people are tired of being ignored, being bankrupted, and all other slights, real or imagined, perpetrated upon us by the politicians we elect to serve US.
It is also worth note that a man of your accomplish looks down on the discourse of ideology as improper and not as a venting of some very serious problems in our society. You don't like the venue chosen by the Patriots of either side, spoiled your time and wasted the money you spent on a ticket? Stay home, as this is the shape of things to come. We can only wonder at the frustration of these folks that they chose a puplic venue such as an NFL game, but my hat is off to them.
My words of wisdom yo everyone, disagree with anyone who flys a banner you disagree with, as soon as it gets down to namecalling, you will know you have won, unless you are the namecaller.
The world we are in is coarse and impolite, if you don't like it, lead by example, no shame in walking away.

Originally posted by LAUGHING-CAT
American Liberty at work.

Apparently the point I was making is being side-stepped.

I could have used many other examples of recent encounters and overheard anger...
1) supermarket checkout arguments
2) squabbles in the airport
3) neighbors bringing up "politics" out of the blue
4) an email list for Internet professionals being overrun with political postings
5) and so on...

I think we all have examples of experiencing an increase in unexpected encounters of ideologically-slanted political anger. And in every case I encountered, the topics were grossly misinformed points we see in the biased media.

I would be thrilled if people were caught up in discussing logical solutions to societal problems, based on actual information and focused on solutions that result in a net-benefit to society. But that's not the case, and the crux of my example of what we saw while tailgating before an NFL game.

We as a people are tired of being ignored, being bankrupted, and all other slights, real or imagined, perpetrated upon us by the politicians we elect to serve US.

Indeed. As am I. So what is wrong with using real facts and sane language when expressing your resentment over the situation? Restating lies or misinformation and reflexive anger at the other "side" does nothing to redress the list of problems, and instead, only enables those problems to continue.

You don't like the venue chosen by the Patriots of either side, spoiled your time and wasted the money you spent on a ticket?

The money I spent on the tickets were wasted long before the ill-informed "protestors" were encountered... it was the horrific Browns @ Bills game. (sigh)



If we, as a people, are genuinely fed-up with the policies and behavior of our government, isn't it our responsibility to accurately state our issues?

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
I cannot help but notice that those who I have observed to be the largest part of the problem are currently making the most noise about this particular change.

It sure looks like an agenda derailed...perhaps some paychecks affected as well?

However, there are still a few more to check in...I expect to see their mewling shortly.

Good call, ATS...

Wow, this awnser of yours clearly shows your own political bias, and hatred...

So everyone who who happens to disagree with the Obama policies, and in turn see this as a move to try to control dissent is being paid off for this?...

It is obvious by now that everyone who agrees with this is a proponent of the policies of Obama, and doesn't want to see the truth as to what the Obama administration is doing... but then agian pointing this out might gain me two more flags as a "political troll" yet every one of the Obama fans is no political troll when they are showing their hatred even in this thread.

And of course, notice how such response of yours is not "political trolling" and "political baiting"....



[edit on 15-10-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
Sure, I'm merely an observer and my politics are centre/left...but I am still a reasonable thinker.
...........

Your claims of being a reasonable thinker go off the window when you yourself claimed everyone who disagrees with this "must be paid off to disagree"...

But hey, your hatred to the right, and btw we are passed beyond the "our guy didn't win" I would have preferred that Ron Paul won, but since the election I am focused on the policies being implemented by the Obama administration, which are forever changing the Republic into something it was never supposed to be.

[edited for errors]

[edit on 15-10-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

Originally posted by TheBandit795
CONSPIRACY THEORY AND RELATED TOPICS.

Since when are politics not about conspiracy theories?...

What could have motivated for example the JFK assassination?..

What about the changes for control of the people which is occurring all over the world? Is that not a political conspiracy?...

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
.................
I think we all have examples of experiencing an increase in unexpected encounters of ideologically-slanted political anger. And in every case I encountered, the topics were grossly misinformed points we see in the biased media.

But you are not just moving threads that are "of ideologically-slanted political anger", you are moving every thread which is critical of the current U.S. administration and by making this move you are claiming all such criticism of the current U.S. administration is propagamda, as well as "a disease". You are playing on the other side when you claim you are not.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
Indeed. As am I. So what is wrong with using real facts and sane language when expressing your resentment over the situation? Restating lies or misinformation and reflexive anger at the other "side" does nothing to redress the list of problems, and instead, only enables those problems to continue.

Again, the thing is that you are lumping everything, including political dissent being discussed in a civil manner, and by making this move, and in your own words all of this is "propaganda and a disease".

Not only that, but "real facts and sane language" has been used in several threads which you have moved into this new forum.

And once again I have to ask you, aren't you also taking a side meanwhile trying to suppress the other side by labeling it as "propaganda and a disease"? Yes you are, and your next awnser shows exactly that.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
The money I spent on the tickets were wasted long before the ill-informed "protestors" were encountered... it was the horrific Browns @ Bills game. (sigh)

Ill informed protestors?... Even several LEFTWING SOURCES have presented information which you claim is just "a disease and propaganda".

BTW, yes, I know such issues shouldn't be discussed in a sports event, but you used this as an example of what you call a "plague, and a disease."
Since this is a conspiracy website, you will find political conspiracies being discussed here, which is not the same as discussing such issues on a sports event.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

If we, as a people, are genuinely fed-up with the policies and behavior of our government, isn't it our responsibility to accurately state our issues?

So, are you, and by you I mean the admin of ATS, the only ones that can define what is "an accurate way to state the issues"? Even when information has been accurate, and are real facts you have moved such information to this new forum, which by your own words

"It's unfortunate that the infection has polluted the topics and tonality of discussion here on ATS... a place that, in theory, should be immune from such pedestrian diseases. In many ways it appears as though the players (viruses) perpetuating this deadly disease have infected our topics in much the same way nearly every issue is politicized in the mainstream media."

You seem to be claiming that you, and some others are exempt of this disease, and propaganda, but even in threads which you claim are pointing to this disease you have taken a side.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
The Republicans Have Their Long-Knives Out: "Ever since the election, and for the foreseeable future, the Republicans only have one thing on their mind, screw Obama." He said nothing else matters to them, not voters, and certainly not getting anything done. While the daily dance of special interest continues, he said that everyone is continually distracted by the inside war between Republicans and Democrats...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Do Democrats really care for the people and the country? Does President Obama cares for the people and the country when even he himself has been shown on video not to care? Not to mention his actions since day one in office.

Anyone who points to this fact, that despite everything you say you have taken a side is immediately flagged as "a political troll." Yet you claim this move is not to stiffle, and to control dissent in the forums?

Oh yes, many members who are part of the left have claimed at times that you have taken sides with the right, but I have never seen you agree with any members who claim "the left has taken control of the website". I might be wrong but the only time i saw you ever agreeing with such a comment was around 2005 when a few members were claiming "the right is taking over the website" you agreed and said you, the admin, were working to remedy that, and for the most part that seems to be the side you have taken.

You, and in general the admin of ATS are not exempt from "the disease and propaganda", even when you seem to claim you are.

Are there Americans, and even people from other parts of the world that have taken a less civil way to discuss such problem? yes, but when you claim that this new foum is reserved for this "disease, and propaganda", you are in turn claiming that dissent, even when it contains facts is part of this "plague and propaganda. You might not realize that's what you are doing, but it is so.

Every person has their opinion, and they are entitled to it, but I have even seen you state for example that information I have given about what happens in Cuba, and the healthcare and education in Cuba is not true because the CIA fact book states so.

I am not claiming that you are a tool of the government, but certainly you are not exempt from this "propaganda, and plague that has infected much of the world". You are not exempt from "an intense political bias", and this shows in your comments.

You say that healthcare reform is needed, and yes I agree there are things that need to change, but not the way that the Obama administration is pushing for.

You point to the lobbyists and the "Republicans" just going after Obama not caring about anything else, but again what about the fact that Obama made deals with Big Pharma, and the fact that even Obama in person has stated that it might be better for a person to continue using the pills instead of getting treatments, or getting an operation that doctors say could help? Doesn't that help Big Pharma?

The bills, and changes that the Obama administration is pushing for are not for the good of the nation, but now pointing this out, and giving facts about this which even leftwing sources point out is part of the "propaganda and plague"?

It is obvoius that you can't see that you have been indoctrinated by this "diseased propaganda and plague ," and now any form of dissent, even though it is allowed has been catalogued as "a disease and a plague" by you, and the admin.

This is shown by the fact that the mayority, if not every member that has agreed with this move is a proponent of the Obama policies, meanwhile those members who see this move as a form of control of dissent disagree with such policies.

I am not trying to change the decision since it is more than obvious it has been already decided, I am pointing out the facts that you don't want to admit, that you, and the admins, are part of such "plague and disease."

We have different ideas and opinions, and as such will always be in one side, or another, or in a third side. But every one of us is in one side, whether you want to admit it or not.


[edited for errors and to add a comment]


[edit on 15-10-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

You can segregate the topics, provide greater staff scrutiny, regulate and rule the flow of discussion, punish, ban, and explore but it will not change the reality, nor will it stop it. You will not find any real answers, nor solutions.

While many of you believe that it is all "politics" it is in reality a symptom of a greater global cause, and ultimately the breakdown of order over chaos in ALL "civilized" nations.

The ability of governments and economies to sustain acceptable levels of prosperity, opportunity and ultimately to provide the most basic essentials is failing.

So many seem to believe that through political agendas everything can be fixed... But failure is certain, no matter which political party is in charge, so there is the rub, someone will be blamed, and arguments will erupt.

The very fabric that had held humanity together for centuries is unraveling, global populations have already grown beyond self sustaining abilities and it has finally reached into the US economy and government which had thought itself immune to this kind of failure.

Nothing you will find in your new forum will change what is happening, nor will it slow the progression of the problems, because none of the answers are political. It can and will only get worse.

Either nature will find a way to reduce global human populations, or man will eventually. Between now and then you can expect to see further breakdown of civility, not just on ATS, but everywhere. Your rules will not stop this, nor change it.

Descent into chaos will include ATS, while you all are looking for political solutions or for someone or party to blame, bickering, playing the dirty political games, the core problems will only continue to worsen.

Enjoy your oblivion while it lasts.

[edit on 15-10-2009 by Walkswithfish]

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
you are moving every thread which is critical of the current U.S. administration

No, far from every thread.

And since the forum is focused on showcasing, exposing, and examining the artificially manipulated divide, highly partisan criticism is a valid topic to be contained herein.

And once again I have to ask you, aren't you also taking a side meanwhile trying to suppress the other side by labeling it as "propaganda and a disease"? Yes you are, and your next awnser shows exactly that.

I am indeed "taking a side" of sorts... no side.

Ill informed protestors?... Even several LEFTWING SOURCES have presented information which you claim is just "a disease and propaganda".

Ill-informed by angrily shouting the president is a "commie," yes.

I don't understand the left wing comment?

Since this is a conspiracy website, you will find political conspiracies being discussed here, which is not the same as discussing such issues on a sports event.

And as I and others have stated, the state of american politics -- infecting the populace with an intense artificial divide -- is a conspiracy... hence the forum.

So, are you, and by you I mean the admin of ATS, the only ones that can define what is "an accurate way to state the issues"?

We've never made any claim of the sort.

Even when information has been accurate, and are real facts you have moved such information to this new forum

Do you have an example of a thread that was inappropriately moved -- devoid of issue-distorting bias?

Of the threads I moved, some began with well-realized points that focused on issues instead of political ideology, but quickly devolved into partisan tit-for-tat. But if we've accidentally moved a solid issues-focused thread, I'd certainly want to revisit the topic to see if the move was inappropriate.

You seem to be claiming that you, and some others are exempt of this disease, and propaganda, but even in threads which you claim are pointing to this disease you have taken a side.

I don't believe I've ever "taken a side" in politics. However, those who are unable to avoid injecting ideological division into everything they ready may, from time to time, associate my opinions with one side or another. (I've been accused of favoring both "sides.")

Do Democrats really care for the people and the country?

That's a highly-charged partisan statement. My response is that national politicians no not care for the people and country.

You say that healthcare reform is needed, and yes I agree there are things that need to change, but not the way that the Obama administration is pushing for.

For a brief moment of time, I had something that approached hope... let's call it attentive anticipation.

But what happened was typical of professional democrat politicians, their habitual irresolution resulted in a healthcare reform proposal rife with compromise and deferment.

It's my opinion that government must exist in order to solve problems or do things that are too big for people to do on their own. Solutions to these big problems must result in a net-benefit to society. Instead, we're gridlocked in bitter dispute between the "sides" in an effort to roll out solutions that benefit one of the political parties... not society. Logical solutions to the long list of "big problems" faced by any large culture will invariably sway between traditional conservative or liberal ideals... but the only way to achieve the right solution for society is to remove ideology from the consideration set and do what's right.

You point to the lobbyists and the "Republicans" just going after Obama not caring about anything else, but again what about the fact that Obama made deals with Big Pharma,

That didn't factor into my direct personal experience... so there was no reason to mention it. My focus, in that piece, was on the overwhelming number of lobbyists milling about the congressional office buildings.

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


Those are conspiracies... Flaming or mudslinging about Obama (and the deomcrats) or Bush (and the republicans), based on the utter crap in the mainstream media is political bickering...

interesting post bill so i have a question or 2 for you .[ 1] why is it that your post only concerns the united states of America. my reasoning being that everything you have just said is taking place world wide and in every nation especially those of the so called free world or the nations of the g20 and the eur. and even the so called communist nations have the same problems . it must stem from all of these so called united nations meetings or the a fore mentioned group as it seems that every time they get together we THE PEOPLE of the world get screwed over again.not just your nation. it seems that WE THE PEOPLE have lost control of our so called leaders world wide as they all seem to have no idea of how to manage money ,nor do our corporations -GREED rules supreme.
our loss of control was when they decided that they know what is best for us all and they sure as hell made rules and laws to control us THE PEOPLE like mindless little sheep -right out of your bibles gives you an idea how long they have been using and abusing us all -RIGHTS FREEDOMS AND EVERYTHING HAVE ALREADY BEEN STRIPPED FROM US ALL AS YOUR OWN CONSTITUTION IS NOT WORTH THE PAPER IT IS WRITTEN ON. read the posts by sizzle on the erosion of our rights in the u.s.a. as this applys world wide -doubt it.
children of rock and roll said no to them -we will not kill,we will not be guilty of our fathers sins,we want change and correction as this war should not be taking place as there are other ways and means to the end.
and what happened -they called out the police and military and shot us in our great halls of learning-and where were the people and their families at this point -cowering in the corner when they saw what the leaders of your nation did to their own children.MURDERED. but we were called dissidents,long haired drug crazed hippie killing satanist freaks and so on by them. what happened next? the leaders of your nation ,their lying little priests,your brain dead military's leaders and their neo- nazi police stood hand in hand on the steps of your nations own capital the day they said this then they turned their backs on YOU THE people and they walked back inside as if they did no wrong.sorry for the reminder but this is all recorded on the news reels of that time which i was raised in.
Canada is no better every time we the people protest their mindlessness they call out their own paramilitary neo- nazi police force, in force ,they have even been seen and recorded starting a riot and they can`t be charged as they are doing their [DUTY TO UPHOLD THE LAW].SAY WHAT!!! now the terrorist group which was called the flq is now a political party in Quebec -only in Canada do you say.
do you remember Tienanmen square ,same thing different nation.
how about France and Germany over the last few years no jobs for the youth so they took it to the streets to call the worlds attention to the social problems that they are up against ,what happened? same thing again.
how about great Britain no jobs for the youth they took it to the streets and the same thing happened there with one exception ,BRITAIN now has youth detention camps for the youth if they are out of work [sounds like Hitler has risen again in another nation.]
[2] i wish the people of the u.s.a. would open up their eyes and minds to what is going on in this world outside of your own nation-as it is a world wide problem and those whom are in power have no intention to fix it as they KNOW WHAT IS BEST FOR US by their STANDARDS,god help us all . as the rapture is the day that those so called fools on the hills push the button for nuclear war and WE THE PEOPLE can all kiss it good by- while they all run into their underground warrens like rats in a trap. and WE THE PEOPLE are forbidden to have the same protection as they the fools on the hills -by their own LAWS. how does it feel to be a nothing in this world people? as we are all expendable by their standards-also their own words.
[3] so when are WE THE PEOPLE going to begin to stand up for our selves and take back what is rightfully ours? -FREEDOM-. AND WE DON'T NEED TO KILL OR REVOLT BY THEIR STANDARDS ALL WE NEED TO DO IS UNITE WORLD WIDE AND REMOVE THEM FROM OFFICE AND PUT IN OUR OWN CHOSEN PEOPLE on all levels of government in every nation-then we control the world and not those war mongering brain dead self serving fools.we then control the banks they no longer dictate to us ,we control the company's who mismanaged themselves ,we control the military spending ,we control it all . what was is coke once said .WE `D LIKE TO TEACH THE WORLD TO SING IN PERFECT HARMONY? IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN UNTIL WE TAKE BACK THAT WHICH WAS TAKEN FROM US -EVERYTHING.
POWER TO THE PEOPLE
AS
WE THE PEOPLE ARE THE POWER

NOT THEM OR THEIR MINIONS

REMEMBER THESE WORDS WELL

reply to post by ElectricUniverse
Neither party cares about the country I thought this was obvious for years these guys only really care about is filling their pockets.It's why Ron Paul ends up having to fight to remain in the house his own party have been trying to get rid of him for years now.


[edit on 043131p://3126 by mike dangerously]

This is a great idea.
To get at the root cause of anything is to bring it down.

I would like to contribute with this:

We know that the Skull and Bones came into being about the time of Lincoln's presidency. He gave a speech in which he says our enemy will come from within not from across the ocean.

I believe he was aware of the threat. After his assasination there was a conspiricy trial.

JFK talks about a shadow government to the press corps.

Rothschilds leaves behind papers that say the last conflict needed to destroy America is the Arab American conflict.

So it appears the desire to destroy America may of course go back to the Revolutionary war. After all I don't think Britian liked losing.

The other factor to consider is that it is easy to sway people if they already believe as you do and of course power, greed and such have been always with us.

I also read a top secret document back in 85 called silent weapons quiet wars that described using mass psychology to begin the break down of different aspects of society.

We know of the work done during the Hitler reign and other subsequent experiments on human psychology and even back to many Ancient world leaders that used people on their staff as it were, to keep them informed of how the people believed or felt and they would use that to direct the people in the direction they wanted them to go.

So if you put people who agree with your agenda into the right places then it is not so much a conspiricy as it is a evolution of minds.

As to the present individual in the White House, I will not refer to him as our president until we have undeniable proof, it is similar in the rise of Hitler. Hitler's predeccessor made things so horrible to the German people that they too wanted change and this great orator wanted to give it to them. They to were horrified by what came down the pike, but even today there are those who say he did great things for germany.

so the ability to subvert the ploitical arena is not as difficult as it may appear.

It took one generation to convince women to stay on their backs during labor. So how many generation do you think it will take to convince the masses that socialism or even another hitler is ok? It starts with education both in the home and in the market place and the school.

A DVD that steps the world through the true purpose and reason of the Constitution and the reason for freedom may be a good strart, but is the information we have even the correct information?

have we to subcummed to the lie without realizing it? To find the root you have to unscramble the whole mess back to its infancy.

Is this thread, on this website, on this thing called the internet, the proverbial candle being lit in the darkness?

This political and societal mess came about in a time before the internet. The media that existed was usurped in order to mold public opinion - and they succeeded. The results are what this thread is about.

"They" are doing their best to usurp this media, the internet, as well, but for now they are only half succeeding. We see their attempts. We see their attempts this time.

They will try and control the internet to their likings, but for now it is free. Let us use it to bring more light; to light more candles.

Thank you ATS. I hope soon I will need sunglasses while reading this site and others.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
The infection has been expertly managed for decades through a combination of media manipulation, repeated political lies, and fringe issue sensationalization. The goal is to keep the American public fixated on hate, hollow blame, and non-issues such that the real persons of power (corporate lobbyists) may shape public policy.

Not that I don't agree with much of the stated premise of this forum, but I think it's a bit naive to blame the big bad corporate lobbyists for a broad-ranging political conspiracy. Corporate lobbyists strive for an extremely narrow objective: Self Interest. They lobby for policies and laws that benefit their respective industries.

I don't think you can "infect" the broad general population with the fervor of rebellion over narrowly-targeted issues. For example, if you think the American Revolutionary War began because of taxes on tea and stamps, you need a refresher history course. Colonial discontent and rebellion escalated on many fronts over many decades prior to the war. From the rum and apricot and tobacco trades to piracy on the high seas to the madness of King George III and more, the reasons behind the Revolutionary War were many and intertwined. Narrow issues don't start revolutions.

As much as conspiracy theorists may vilify organizations such as Goldman Sachs or individuals such as Bernie Madoff or the late Kenneth Lay, the fact is that these individuals and organizations were/are motivated only by the acquisition of money. They're not out to destroy the world with religious dogma or secular fanaticism, they're not much interested in whether you persecute homosexuals or abort the unborn, and they don't care if Lyndon Johnson escalated the Vietnam War into a meat grinder for U.S. troops or if George W. Bush started the Iraq War to avenge his father.

Corporate lobbyists don't give a hoot in hell how any of these domestic and foreign issues play out, as long as they continue to acquire money; and, trust me, they're going to make money whether the world is baked to a cinder by manmade global warming or is restored to some idyllic Garden of Eden through a miracle of ecological technology.

The "ones to blame" — if playing the blame game is your progressive agenda — are those who feed the dragon, not those who dream up schemes and throw money at the fetid whores occupying our nation's highest offices.

Blame yourselves for not disempowering the legislators and the executive enforcers. It's as simple as refusing to open your pocketbook. That's right, as long as you spend your money for goods and services, you are perpetuating the "conspiracy"...

Ever wonder what would happen if the American People simply stopped spending for one day? Wall Street would go into a precipitous tailspin and the despicable denizens of Washington, DC would go scampering like rats from a burning tugboat. The economic ripple would circle the world a hundred times before stability was restored.

To tame the "conspiracy" you have to cut off its nuts — at least for one day — and the nut-cutting is YOUR responsibility.

— Doc Velocity





[edit on 10/18/2009 by Doc Velocity]

reply to post by Doc Velocity


Yes, Yes, Yes!!!

I agree completely. People complain like heck about the powers that be but fail to see the direct connection they have with them thru their pocket-books.

Well stated. Except a one-day no buy thing would be hard to pull off. I would advocate people just become discerning buyers. Be aware of the brainwashing going on via commercials. Think about what is really necessary. Think about who makes the stuff they need/want. Think about where it comes from. Think about who they are supporting with their purchases.

Then again, probably too much thinking for the average Joe.

C'mon, now, I still have faith in the intelligence and spirit of the American People. Anytime you're rubbing your temple, perplexed over one of those loaded Gallup or Zogby polls on a given issue, I challenge y'all to try this... Go down to yer local Wal-Mart and casually ask the same poll question of 10 shoppers at random. You'll get truthful answers, maybe a smile, and your results will be so far off from Zogby and Reuters it'll make you realize what a ridiculous scam is the "polling industry" in America.

TALK TO PEOPLE, what a concept.

I was in Aspen yesterday, said hello to John Denver, and as I walked down the sidewalk in front of the old Hotel Jerome I overheard a couple of teenagers discussing politics, Aspen-style:

"Y'see Obama do da troops ting, rye?"
"Yeh Obama da man!"

Our future. Their hands.

Do the math.

— Doc Velocity

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


Liberating 23 Million people in Iraq is pointless??? I expected more rational from you.