The Conspiracy of American Political Peril

reply to post by ModernAcademia


Okay it's official...the phrase "redristribution of wealth" has completely crossed over into one of those buzz words that turns off peoples ability to think objectively.

When SO speaks of improving Infrastructure, Schools and Public Safety and nobody thinks that is neccessary or a good thing, but can only scream "Socialism"...well ...hats off to the talking heads that made it happen. No thought required my lizard brained compadres!!

By the current definition of "Redistribution of Wealth" = Taxes....It has been going on since our founding...those damn socialist founding fathers!

Let's just call it taxes....and let the debate be about where our tax dollars are spent.

Socialism....hold your breath...has nothing to do with it....

Originally posted by maybereal11
When SO speaks of improving Infrastructure, Schools and Public Safety and nobody thinks that is neccessary or a good thing, but can only scream "Socialism"...well ...hats off to the talking heads that made it happen. No thought required my lizard brained compadres!!

By the current definition of "Redistribution of Wealth" = Taxes....It has been going on since our founding...those damn socialist founding fathers!

And HOW exactly do you think that by calling it taxes it's different?

Please explain that to my turned off head?

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/b00d6894e531.jpg[/atsimg]

Tell me what you see?

reply to post by ModernAcademia


I see a small percentage of people paying way more taxes than the 95% just because some people think they are rich. Does that seem fair?

You know what else I see, is if you keep over taxing that 5% and they get tired enough of it, they will just take there ball and go play in another country. Then that 95% is even more screwed.

[edit on 13-10-2009 by StinkyFeet]

Does change ever come about from talking? We're frogs in pots.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


So, I read it again. I believe my comprehension skills are quite good actually, but that is just my opinion.

The problem then is "Personal Bashing" because of ones politics?

Gold and Silver prices show the dollar is in big trouble:

Gold and Silver Prices

Better buy food, guns and ammunition as well.

reply to post by aravoth
Disclaimer: As elsewhere!

Explanation: You state this "The company I work for has the largest Health-care lobby in the United States."

And then you state this further down in the same post " Meaning, it's going to contract out, and pay the CEO of my company billions, upon billions, upon billions of taxpayer dollars annually, whether or not anyone is sick, injured, or perfectly healthy. This is a fracken scam."

Ok with that stated I note upon reflection of this that basically means that you also are going to profit from this! Even more pertenant question would be "Haven't you already?" Since by working one might just assume you are also being paid! Care to disclose whether you are reciprocated at all for the work that you do?
Seems to me that you are also try to pass the responsibility buck to your boss! Care to further disclose your own culpabilty, beyond your "I work for" disclosure, in "This [is a] fracken scam."!

Personal Disclosure: As to SO's comment regarding you " injecting your knee-jerk partisan mindset" into this thread I posit that you did this several times when you failed to post the WHOLE context of what SO had posted!

Exhibit A: The original full context of what SO really posted....

"Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
Are you a proponent of Obama healthcare reform?


Healthcare reform is desperately needed. It's broken. It's prohibitively expensive for small businesses and self-employed. There is no guarantee that if you have it now, it will pay for your bills.

As for Obama, he's a child of a system I abhor. I see him as no different than those before him."

Exhibit B: Additional relevant original SO content in full context....

"I did no such thing. You injected your knee-jerk partisan mindset into your own biased assumptions of what you believe my comments to mean.


So may people have spent so much time trying to express their belief I'm biased in favor of one side, while never considering I'm biased against all "sides." (Which is easily discerned from the actual content of my opinions.)

Pathetic."

Yet you make the claim that ....[posted in full context]

Exhibit C: "Indeed.

Maybe if people have a hard time understanding you and your opinions, an attempt should be made on your part to explain yourself better. Rather than using half-witted attempts at insinuated insults."

FYI Exhibits A and B go to show that SO is TRUE to his word and also his assesment of your current inability to discern without biased myopia which you clearly express in Exhibit C! Care to refute?

Further more I noted that SO's comments regarding healthcare's need of reform as stated in Exhibit A RE: "Its broken"

And Now I'll introduce Exhibit D provided by your post: "This is a fracken scam."



Note how Exhibit D is HIGHLY congruent with Exhibit A in this specific case and again show how your statements made in Exhibit C are biased and myopic and therefor your POV was "Pathetic" when compared to the motto of ATS which is to "Deny Ignorance"! Care to refute?

P.S. Was your ad-hominen attack on SO's reputation as a result of him Identifying the "scam" that YOU work for? Is that why your 1st post portrayed an apparent disdain for "reform"? RE: "Spouting the word "Reform" is parroting meaningless dribble from a campaign slogan." Is this because you want to keep your job and any possible benifits that you currently have and are afraid that SO and ATS will destroy this comfortable parasitic reality that you have made for yourself?

Well, At least SO has people to fight his battles for him.

#1, no I have not benefited, only the CEO will. Neither will you, neither will SO, no one will.

#2. I don't work for the Lobby, I work for the company. I'm not on the government payroll.....

#3. You watch way too much Matlock.

#4. If this health-care bill goes through, I will keep my job. In fact I'll probably get paid more than I do now. Thanks... I'll be sure to blow all your tax dollars on booze and strippers. Maybe I'll push to open up a few more "quality assurance departments", that'll suck some more money out of your pocket and pay someone for doing nothing. You don't seem to understand. This will not cut anything from me or any health-care company.

#5. You have no idea what reform is. None, nada, zero, zilch. You think Obamacare is reform, and all it's going to do is increase the wealth and assets of the corporations you hate so much.

#6. Supporting a government program because the person who endorses it is a good speaker is not "denying ignorance", it's a textbook example of herd stupidity.

#7. ATS will destroy nothing, and I haven't created a parasitic reality, you have. That what this health-care reform is. That's what all of these government programs are. Parasitic. I don't steal from my neighbor to pay for my own indulgences.

#8. No I do not care to refute, you are the Perry Mason wannabe making stupid accusations that I am part of the medical elite trying to bring down Lord Obama. Burden of proof is on you, Sherlocke.

I like this idea, maybe you should move my newest thread to this forum! Here is the link:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

It would fit better in this new forum.

Excellent job as usual!

Keep it up!

reply to post by ModernAcademia


Well, this is what I see, and I must admit I copied and pasted this from:
answers.yahoo.com...
But I saw it before and found it again here. Anyway, its a good story.


BAR STOOL ECONOMICS or Taxes 101

Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten
comes to $100.

If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something
like this:


The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay $1.
The sixth would pay $3.
The seventh would pay $7.
The eighth would pay $12.
The ninth would pay $18.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.
total equals $100.00

So, that's what they decided to do. The ten men drank in the bar every day
and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw
them a curve.

'Since you are all such good customers, he said, I'm going to reduce the
cost of your daily beer by $20.

Drinks for the ten now cost just $80.

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so the
first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But what
about the other six men - the paying customers? How could they divide the
$20 windfall so that everyone would get his 'fair share?'

They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that
from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end
up being paid to drink his beer. So, the bar owner suggested that it would
be fair to reduce each man's bill by roughly the same amount, and he
proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay.!

And so:

The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).
The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33%savings).
The seventh now pay $5 instead of $7 (28%savings).
The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).
The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings).
The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).

Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings.

'I only got a dollar out of the $20, 'declared the sixth man. He pointed to
the tenth man, 'but he got $10!'

'Yeah, that's right,' exclaimed the fifth man. 'I only saved a dollar, too.
It's unfair that he got ten times more than I!'

'That's true!!' shouted the seventh man. 'Why should he get $10 back when I
got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!'*

'Wait a minute,' yelled the first four men in unison. 'We didn't get
anything at all. The system exploits the poor!'

The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next night the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat
down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill,
they discovered something important. They didn't have enough money between
all of them for even half of the bill!

And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our
tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit
from a tax reduction. Tax them too much , attack them for being wealthy, and
they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking
overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier

Love the OP...great job SO!

I was one of those people you mentioned that was only interested in shouting my opinions and got into many spats with many people. Ironically, many of those people I get along with now...and that is because you can learn from those you disagree with and understand where they are coming from.

The first thing to do is find faults in your "own" beliefs. Look at what is wrong and why people are saying it is wrong. Look at who you are "really" standing for when you state an opinion.

I only wish more people here would do it. I can sense the hatred for Obama on ATS...it's no secret...I'm afraid that many here don't just hate him for his policies.....and that fuels the fire some.

I'm truly disgusted with just about everything our government has done and is doing recently. The devaluation of our currency continues to grow...the debts continues to grow....the war continues to grow....people's angst continue to grow...

We've got to come together sometime guys....and we had better do it soon before we implode and destroy ourselves.

Does this mean the US has taken over ATS or just right VS left bashing? Only US politics?

I have a few choice words for Gordon Brown but will follow the rules. I see lots of odd and unusual things going on the the EU, UK, ect and wonder why those arent rising up in protest. Especially after the Constitution was replaced in 2006, new monetary system, etc. Do they just keep their cool better?

Hate never benefits anyone. I agree with that.

Originally posted by wonderworld
Does this mean the US has taken over ATS or just right VS left bashing? Only US politics?

I have a few choice words for Gordon Brown

That's a good question,

also I noticed two new topics on the passage of the health care bill today one is in the new PM forum the other is in the more acceptable political news forum,

How are the decision being made as to which forum they should and would be posted in or moved to?

TY

and since some old post are being moved into PM, how old of a topic will be moved?

Are you going to go back as far as the Bush years?



[edit on 033131p://bTuesday2009 by Stormdancer777]

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


Hey Bill,

You know I'm one of those "knuckle draggers" from the right. Sure I'm a college grad, former officer with the USMC, lifetime member of the NRA and so on.

Now this broken record here...................

You seem to be another prime example of someone either unable to understand what I say, or sees different words than those I type.

is one I'm having difficulty with as well. I've read the original post and every other post on this thread.

I find the "flavor" of your premise and subsequent decision to assign a new "place" for this political badgering a little confusing as well. I can only guess many of your detractors are lumping your decision making process with those of the current administration in regards to recent news stories.

www.minnpost.com...

Perhaps the timing of your decision has led to some confusion. Are we to merely mark this down as coincedental?

As the thread progresses your personal frustrations seem to be ratcheting up 6 fold. It's certainly "OK" and in some regards admirable for you, the owner of this site, to state clearly your affiliations, beliefs, and thought processes that brought all of us to this point.

I've been around since 2004 and I won't leave when you "come clean" with your agenda. It's a great place, you're not a bad guy, and the tinfoilers are worth reading everday.

Just some clarification for us Neanderthals would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Becker

reply to post by aravoth
Disclaimer: As elsewhere!

Explanation: Thanks for your prompt reply.

1stly You state and I quote "Well, At least SO has people to fight his battles for him."...and I would like to inform you that I am in no way fighting SO's battle for him! My A PRIORI intent in challenging you was to deny ignorance! For the public record I have NEVER had direct or indirect contact via any form of communication methods with SO or any of the 3 Amigo's EVER in relation to defending their reputations. I do however stand up for what I believe in and in this particular case its the ATS motto!

2ndly In your No#1 reply you claim you made no benefit and yet in your No#4 reply you claim that you will get paid more! Being paid and having a job is a benefit! Care to refute?

3rdly In your No#2 reply you claim that your not on the Government payroll but this is not congruent at all with what you said in your very 1st post RE: "The company I work for has the largest Health-care lobby in the United States. Do you know what this lobby buys off Congressmen for? Universal Health-care... Why would a health-care company (who apparently stands to loose billions) want that? Because the Health-care industry isn't going to loose any money. In fact universal coverage will make them even more wealthy than they are now.

This health-care bill is Corporatism. Period. Who do you think wrote the bill? Politicians? They don't know crap about medicine. My company wrote a large part of that bill. And they are still working on it. The government isn't all of the sudden going to spring "government hospitals" out of the ground. It's just going to use the existing infrastructure. Meaning, it's going to contract out, and pay the CEO of my company billions, upon billions, upon billions of taxpayer dollars annually, whether or not anyone is sick, injured, or perfectly healthy. This is a fracken scam. And anyone who has the ability to think knows it. The above doesn't even include Pharmaceutical companies.

70% of all the health-care costs in the US are already paid for by the government. SEVENTY PERCENT. But nearly 80% off all net revenue in the health-care industry goes directly into the pocket of a corporate CEO running the companies."

So you work for a company that has the largest Health-care lobby in the United States. [Note I never claimed you worked for the lobby I claimed that you worked for the scam which INCLUDES the company you work for!]

This company sets up and pays for the lobbyists to lobby for them and as a consequence the company you work for profits via the "scam" with the buying off of congressmen.

You pass the buck to your boss with the claim of him profiting by up to 80% on the 70% Government financial input into the company you work for, but fail to consider the remaining 20% which goes towards the future of the company and therefor your job and also goes to pay your wage!

4th Both Your No#3 and No#4 replies are irrelevant to this issue because No#3 is just and ad hominen atttack on my reputation regardless of whether I actually watch Matlock or not [I haven't watched in ages...last time was in the 1990's ], and No#4 fails to consider that I'm an Australian Citizen and not now or have ever been American!

5th Your No#5 reply is uninformed as to what I really know about reforming and my ability to apply that knowledge! Also I have never stated any opinion on ATS about Obama's healthcare or whether I think it's reform or not! Care to refute?

6th As regards your No#6 reply I have no argument and for once it appears we actually agree. An agument based on ethos [someones reputation..or lack of it] which is exactly what you were trying to do in your posts to SO is and EPIC FAIL! [Note that I'm doing the same to you, but since you had no qualms about doing this to SO and also ATS then why should I have qualms about doing this to you....Seems to me you deserve a taste of your own medicine! Care to refute?]

7th Your No#7 reply makes the claim that you don't steal from your neighbor to pay for your own indulgences! I can only reply by saying reread my 2nd and 3rd replies above which clearly show that you are deluding yourself that you are not part of the scam that is defrauding your neighbours! Care to refute?

Finally your No#8 reply is all pathos [emotionally] based and it seems I have hit a sensitive nerve in your psyke. As regards the burden of proof I would like to quote the evidence you yourself supplied " My company wrote a large part of that bill." and " This is a fracken scam."!

Personal Disclosure: Maybe you should go reread what you wrote in your No#6 reply which I fully agreed with!

Originally posted by TheBandit795
reply to post by lucentenigma

 

This is website about conspiracy theories. Not a political discussion site. When the site was created back in 1997, the intention was not to include political discussion. It creeped in on it's own during the years beginning around 2003. Back then we (were forced to) create the first forum specifically created for political mudslinging (the mudpit). The political discussion has since grown on us (forced down our throats IMO), and here we stand today where we must create another forum about U.S. politics in order for the rest of the site to be focused on CONSPIRACY THEORY AND RELATED TOPICS.

[edit on 13-10-2009 by TheBandit795]

I was a lurker back in 2003.

Thing is times change, ebb and flow and all that good stuff.

Take out all political discussion and the owners can watch that white counter down below creep up to a lot higher number.

Trust me I have owned websites that have profited over 100k a year.

If this was a "true" conspiracy site I highly doubt that little white counter would have gotten that high in the first place.

I'm sure that is what keeps that counter so high is the fact that this site is a pseudo conspiracy/political site and of course $$$$$.






[edit on 13-10-2009 by lucentenigma]

reply to post by David9176


Well, I would have to disagree with you, I know the FED, specifically Old Ben, will have to find the exact right moment to begin a reversal of this current policy, but this talk about a spiralling dollar is simply wrong. Lets look at the facts:

Dollar Index is higher today than in October 2008, thus Dollar = Stronger

CPI October 2008 = 216.573
CPI August 2009 = 215.834
(Had to compare to August b/c October wasn't available yet)

You should notice that August is lower than October, thus Dollar = Stronger

We should be MUCH MUCH more worried about DEFLATION than we are of inflation.

For those of you who don't know macroeconomics,
inflation = [CPI(09) - CPI(08)]/CPI(08) = -.34% inflation or a deflation of .34%

Thus, dollar buys more and Dollar = Stronger

I realize the dollar is lower today than a few months ago, but the market is self correcting and we all hope Ben Bernanke is smart enough to time the reversal of this monetary waterfall just right, otherwise you are right, inflation will be a problem, but currently, NOT AN ISSUE!

reply to post by Becker44

www.minnpost.com...

Perhaps the timing of your decision has led to some confusion. Are we to merely mark this down as coincedental?

Interesting, I am a little confused since to me politics and conspiracies, go hand in hand.

reply to post by memarf1


I know that it's not an issue...right now...yes we are in a deflationary period...what I was refering to was how the dollar has been devalued the last 3 decades.

I agree with everything you stated....except I don't think Ben is going to be successful.