Michel Moore gets destroyed in a debate about capitalism

It just seemed to me they were debating something. Nobody got owned this whole thread is idiotic. Almost as bad as the costco add.

It just seemed to me they were debating something. Nobody got owned this whole thread is idiotic. Almost as bad as the costco add.

I'm still young, like the college kid, and I am humble in my beliefs. I question them everyday, and I wish more people would question their own beliefs. We are learning new things everyday, this is the age of communication and information, if ever it would be a good time to question your beliefs, I think now is a good one.

So here is where I put my two cents in.

The whole country seems to be argueing about this same topic, and many that I have read here. I think Mike and the kid are right when they both demonstrate that we have a broken system. I think everyone in this country can appreciate democracy, and capitalism. The broken system that we have now makes it more difficult to appreciate the latter.

1913 was a damning year for our country, as most of you know, the Federal Reserve Act was put into place that year. This argument to me shouldn't be about capitalism vs. communism. It should be about what needs to change in order for the beautiful concept that this country was founded upon, for that concept to succeed. Taxation without representation is why we have Tea-Parties. For too long now, our politicians have represented the corporations and not the people, and that's I think mainly what Mike was trying to say.

The kid suggested that we take from the government the power we have given it and I agree that the power should be restored to the states in that sense. We as individuals have more control over our State representatives than we do our National government. Therefore, we can be more effective in making change at the local level, where we actually live. I have very little concern about the politics in other states, I don't live there. I live here, and the politicians at the local level do actually have the fear that their jobs are at risk if they make the wrong decision. The people in Washington, do not share that same fear.

Putting an end to the Federal Reserve and restoring the issueing power of currency to the people, and not the banks, would bring about the most important change that could be made today. As long as our banks answer to world banks, we are not in control of the money, not in control of the debate, nor the politicians.

National Healthcare, and "Free" education make perfectly good sense to me. Although, I believe now would be a very bad time to make those changes. First, "End the Fed", than restore integrity to our political system, get our finances in order so we are not bailing out large failed corporations, and creating Federal deficits that our kids and their kids will have to pay for, and then institute the type of changes that we would like to see. I don't believe that there are many people out there that have much belief in our educational, health care, government or insurance systems. They could all be considered a failure, depending on your situation. In any situation I'm sure that everyone can agree on one of those issues. Fixing a situation, doesn't mean throwing more money at it or borrowing more money. I do believe that almost everyone would agree that if we could trust our government officials, and we were proud of where our taxes were going, and we did make sure to provide a decent standard of living for those people that cannot provide for themselves, we would not all be in disagreement.

My vote is to wait on health care reform until, as a country, we are both financially secure, and willing to trust our government officials. And I think that people have this whole entire debate misunderstood. Our media is just as much in the pockets of the corporations as our politicians are. We have been led to believe, that this is about race, or capitalism or whatever else they're currently pushing.

Michael Moore doesn't want Socialism and he is in fact a very intelligent person. Smarter than most of us. He also has more balls than most of us. I don't ever entirely agree with any one person. Although, insulting a person is not the answer.

reply to post by MADCZAR


One: some friendly advice, try not to post the same exact message more than once.

Two: I don't think anyone got completely owned, but Michael Moore seemed like a total hypocrite and just could not defend his own work.

I just want to say that all during this video he's saying how democracy is SOOOOOOOOOOOOO good... NO IT'S NOT. Democracy is BS, democracy is the rule of the mob!

What we really want is REPUBLICANISM...which this country was BASED ON. Where minorities have a voice!

And the economic system he wants where everyone have a say, it's called LIBERTARISM. Where people vote with their dollars and the government isn't there to prop up failed corporations.

But he seems to not even know what it is...

I think Moore touches on some important questions regarding how today's society functions with his films.

It's not black and white. Because Moore criticizes capitalism, it is incorrect to assume he supports socialism. That's a bit reductionist and doesn't actually apply.

We are forced to function within the boundaries of the culture we live in, otherwise we are on the fringe.

what he wants and calls for is a different model where it isn't just left or right, black or white, but that everyone has dignity and access to the American dream.

under the current model, this is not the case and the tenets of capitalism have been corrupted. So, there is indeed something inherently wrong with only using a bare single model system from which to run your society.

there must be a wider spectrum of access to wealth for everyone.

heck, its' the 21st century and I like many people work more than 40 hour weeks, have to commute and do not have the lifestyle of learning and leisure that was promised by our tech future.

The cake is a lie.

People definitely need to refresh the concepts of capitalism and corporations.

Capitalism would NOT allow mega corporations - they would be busted by anti trust laws - which they have regulated away by buying up government.

Corporations in the old day were only able to be formed for a specific task - and were dissolved at the end of it - that is true capitalism - which is free markets, and laws protect competition.

Competition is at the very heart of effective capitalism - and is the antithesis of mega corporations - they simply should NEVER exist under a capitalist system.

They were created, protected and signed off by the NWO - make no mistake - a return to true capitalism would sound the death knell for corporations, and as such dissolve the political power of special interests.

The central banking system is the largest most incestuous monopoly in the world - and who sits at its center? The NWO power brokers.

I watched the interview with Hannity on Fox the other day.
Most of the time, his tone was somewhat with what I agree.

The points he was making is that he is not against capitolism. It has just gotten out of hand with corruption and power.

It is the Govt's fault, as the laws where never enforced that are on the books.
To few corps own way too many things. To big to fail. That is a complete BS deal.

Originally posted by SpacePunk
reply to post by Frogs

 

So, he's worth 25 million.... so what? He earned that, and more power to him. It's not like he got a 25 million bonus for running a company into the ground. 25 million is small beans in todays world. He provides a product, and people have a choice if they see that product or not.

That's the difference that many of these form posters don't want you to think about.

Mr. Moore made that wealth from providing something funny, educational, dramatic, he didn't do it poisoning a village in the Amazon, he didn't do it poisoning the water of a village in India, he didn't do it forcing kids to work for twelve hours a day for less than a dollar.

They don't want to think about that, so they criticise everyone who has wealth as though they are the same. That makes it more comfortable for them to look at their investments and the products they buy without feeling guilty.

All of these posters are very quick to open the "hypocrite" can when they see something that makes them look like the piles of crap they are for supporting companies like Exxon and Coca Cola.
They simply don't want to face the truth, yes, he has money, but you still support corporate scum more so than this guy will ever be.

You guys want to talk about Hypocrisy? Take a look in the mirror, then come back with a relevant argument and defence for why you still wear sweat shop clothes and drink Coca Cola. You still buy fuel from companies like Esso and you still eat crap produced by other nations and imported to drum your own farmers out of business...

Remember, "Deny Ignorance"...
That doesn't mean finding the easiest target to make YOU feel less guilty for your own actions.

I hate moore more than jones, but I didn't see him destroyed.

Do I need a new dictionary?

reply to post by Amagnon


good post

reply to post by anyjerk


You seem impressionable enough to see the proper ways BUT you will have to realize the United States
Constitutional way has been hijacked
by the ousted communists that raped Germany and Russia.
They have fled here and to other powerful countries from those countries with an ax to grind against the entire world.
They are Zionists.
Home base Israel.
Check the history and the path. It's a no brainer.
They have enough nuclear power to destroy or blackmail the world. Marxism is the key to understand the phenomenon.
MM is just a media freak controlled by those I speak of.

Did you even watch the video?!

HE WAS NOT GETTING DESTROYED. 90% of the video was him talking to no disagreement, just the kid asking the question nodding his head. Part of the problem with some of these threads is that people are taking things are surface value rather than investigating.

The kid said the problem is with corporatism and our government. The problem is for the politicians. Moore was saying we need to have a true democratic society.

I agree. I am also a business owner of a successful business. I am actually doing well in this economy. Why? Because I charge prices 15% - 40% lower than my competition. I know people that have made more money than I and have worked half as hard. Why? Because they are gouging prices.

The truth of the matter is capitalism really leads to anything for money. It rewards those that are greedy. It rewards shortcuts and doing the wrong thing, because it is more profitable. If not then there would not be so many law suites. In the end it rewards large corporations that have the government in their back pocket.

The problem with socialism and communism is it pushes up and makes the government too powerful.

We need a system where we work together.

If you work you work for the best solution. People accomplish things, not money. Get rid of money.

Every one works, every one gets.

If you have a good idea, you own it. If some one has a better idea to improve it, you work with them, if not they own it.

Every body works together for the best for society rather than a me first attitude. However the problem is most of the people that are smart enough to make this happen, are in it for themselves. The people at the bottom do not make it happen because they keep participating and only believe what they are told. Everyone thinks inside of the box of Capitalism, Socialism, Dictator, republican, democrat, libertarian.

I say we are human and we should work together for a real solution that benefits us all. We are the ones that make it happen, everyone should benefit.

nuff said.

reply to post by Donny 4 million


I do understand and agree with what you say... Still young, but I have done research... The religous colonies seem to be a bi-product of the world government... World government a product of people we don't seem to neccesarily understand... Ying/Yang, government/religion, capitalist/communist... all seem to be a part of the same system set up by whom? World bankers I guess

I love how there is soo much hypocrisy or blanket idiotic statements coming from this guy.

He wraps a turd in a hot blanket then hands it over to the ignorant. I can smell the # from a mile away but that doesn't stop the sheep from rolling around in feces... let's hope it doesn't have pox in it to...

ps. I was really hoping someone would say the word COERCIVE economic system, which is what we have. It is the basis of fascism, communism, socialism, totalitarianism, authoritarianism, and all the other #ty forms of government where a man is robbed of his labor. You NEED a government that has powers to COERCE the people, usually at gun point, to give up their property and hand it to another, in order for those forms of government to EXIST. Just like the word VOLITION, NO ONE EVER SAYS IT....zzzz

Originally posted by Amagnon
People definitely need to refresh the concepts of capitalism and corporations.

Capitalism would NOT allow mega corporations - they would be busted by anti trust laws - which they have regulated away by buying up government.

Corporations in the old day were only able to be formed for a specific task - and were dissolved at the end of it - that is true capitalism - which is free markets, and laws protect competition.

Competition is at the very heart of effective capitalism - and is the antithesis of mega corporations - they simply should NEVER exist under a capitalist system.

They were created, protected and signed off by the NWO - make no mistake - a return to true capitalism would sound the death knell for corporations, and as such dissolve the political power of special interests.

The central banking system is the largest most incestuous monopoly in the world - and who sits at its center? The NWO power brokers.

Great point. I think any one of us that has an idea kicking around in the back of our heads and wonders if it could turn into a going concern loves the ideal of capitalism.

Where is gets all wrong is when the big money is allowed to push around the smaller businesses to the point they cant exist. Walmart did this over and over when they pushed american businesses to sell barely above cost to get access to the market in a deal with the devil and playing them against each other until many of them went out of business and made China the defacto supplier for everything we buy.

Folks, we are living in a Plutocracy and it is sad to see that there are so many potential patriots out there get side tracked and poisened by the biggest corporatist mouthpiece in the world, Rupert Murdoch.

reply to post by Wimbly


I have no idea how you think he was destroyed in this video??? He has made valid points regarding the sad state of affairs in the Western world using examples that the kids could relate to. Everything he said was spot on. Regardless of what he has made in terms of money he has earned it considering the fact that he went out into the world and told things as they are from the get go.

This video does not say that he is necessarily a socialist but rather that the capital system the way it is set up with it's monopolies are not working.

[edit on 9-10-2009 by Egyptia]

Originally posted by MADCZAR
It just seemed to me they were debating something. Nobody got owned this whole thread is idiotic. Almost as bad as the costco add.

What are you talking about? Moore rambled on about a completely different subject and than brought up free stuff in order to get applause and then his partner chimes in an attempt to save him. It was like watching an episode of the Simpsons!

Originally posted by kozmo
reply to post by SpacePunk

 

NEWS FLASH: Capitalism allowed Michael Moore to earn $25M dollars! DOH!

If the country were Socialist, which this idiot is seen advocating, he wouldn't be permitted to make the kind of money he has made. So, what we have here is called HYPOCRISY. Yes, Michael Moore is a hypocrite - oh, and a moron!

You know, one person changing isn't enough. We can't have or expect one guy to sit outside the White House and do a hunger protest. Do you want him to give all his money to charity? When you're advocating for change you can't just step out of the current standards of society, you have to work within the scope of it until you get that change you want.

The first 6 or so comments that I have read I find really stupid. I don't get what it is but I've seen more and more of it around here on ATS the past 2 years and its driving me nuts. You can dislike the guy but don't let that take over your entire thought process. And since when was he "destroyed" in that video clip?? I saw nothing of the sort, and there was not even a debate!! A few comments by a guy in the audience is NOT a "debate". Nice trying to spin it to fit your reality, bunch of crap I feel like more and more people are losing touch with reality on this site and its not worth the effort listening to morons or debating them, they're lost. This is like Fox News, is there a Glen Beck Virus going around?


[edit on 9-10-2009 by ghaleon12]

reply to post by ghaleon12


See, here's the problem with the logic "one person changing isn't enough." You're intentionally trying to minimalize the importance of Michael Moore by calling him the much-humbled "one person." Surly you realize the power that Mr. Moore wields, and the millions of supporters he has. If he were to give his money to charity or make a film on how he's living in poverty to show that "capitalism doesn't work," most assuredly he'd make large waves.

Further, if "one person changing isn't enough," what about the President? If he decides something should be done about something, be it political or economic, you better believe that he'll have a tremendous amount of sway.