Michel Moore gets destroyed in a debate about capitalism

This headline is completely misleading. How did he get destroyed in this "debate"?
Please, before attacking me, just answer the question. Most of what he says is correct. I agree he's intellectually dishonest - he should have, at least, given away 10,000 free DVDS or tickets to the movie in opposition to capitalism. Doesn't change the fact that much of what he says is entirely correct.

[edit on 9-10-2009 by really]

true capitalism is a fairy tale just like somebody saying there will be a benevolent communism in a money orientated society.

Originally posted by arcnaver
Seems like so many of you "I hate capitalism" people sure have no problem benefiting from it. You are using a BBS based on Capitalism. Now whose the hypocrite?

You are also connecting to it on a communication system initially created with tax dollars. It's unlikely in a real capitalist society, the internet would have ever been created. As the initial investments for research would have been too high for something that had no obvious profits in the near future. In addition, no company would create something that their competition would have equal access too.

double post


[edit on 9-10-2009 by Kaploink]

What video were you watching? Did you post the wrong link, maybe?

I'm not sure. But, in this video Michael Moore was not "destroyed". Far from it. And there was never any debate. Unless you consider asking a question, then answering a question a debate. Usually for something to be considered a debate one has to disagree with something. Then, points are made to in agreement or in disagreement of the topic at hand.

There was one question mentioning capitalism vs corporatism. Another mentioning that our political system doesn't function properly.

If anything the kid making the point seemed to totally agree with Michael Moores stance on the issue and the system. He just expressed his opinion that he should be attacking "Corporatism" and not "Capitalism".

Well, I got news for you. Capitalism IS Corporatism in the United States.

Originally posted by Maximus_Prime
reply to post by Alxandro

 

It’s not so simple, to group Mr. Moore into the gutter with those who prey on the disenfranchised. 25 million, what does that even mean? Does that make him a have and thus evil? I am curious what is your level of education and why you along with countless other chose to hate this guy so much, is it cause he carved his own path? Maybe you hate white people (which honestly don’t exist, have you ever seen a white person? (The skin is more pink you know.)

I starred this post and your previous one....good observations on your

part.

What I have learned on ATS is people don't need much of a reason to

hate. Just appeal to their biases and no evidence is required to gain their

support. In other words, sing a tune, and no matter how ignorant you will

find followers. Most people love to criticise to pump their egos.

The first thing that came to mind when I watched the film was...ok...where

does Michael Moore get owned in this video.....and it never happened.

Change the title....it's disinfo.

Originally posted by kozmo
Capitalism is an even playing field that allows everyone to compete freely.

Level playing field? Everyone? I guess that means me too?

So, you're saying that I could start up a Cell phone company tomorrow and expect to compete against AT&T?

Maybe if I jump on the credit card train I could give VISA a run for their money?

You've got to be joking. The fact is that our government has passed laws for YEARS catering to mega-corporations allowing them to create such a conglomerate and monopoly that NO ONE could compete with them.

It's corporatism in disguise.

EDIT: Nevermind. I thought you were defending our current system. But, after re-reading your post I see that you were admitting that we do not live in a Capitalist society.

Please disregard the quote and response.

[edit on 9-10-2009 by tyranny22]

reply to post by tyranny22

Capitalism IS Corporatism in the United States.

And it will be Corporatism under Socialism as well if we switch. There is no difference when the ones in control never really change. Corporatism runs Socialist Countries as well.

Capitalism, IMO...CAN WORK...but we have to protect those who have fallen and need help to get them back in the game.

I view capitalism as a way for people to show their uniqueness. There just has to be proper restraints on how big business can be and we need to protect workers by raising tariffs. Raising tariffs would be a dagger into the hearts of many international corporations.

We don't need to trade socialism for capitalism...it's not necessary...as government is supposed to be for the protection of the people in it's country..by those foreign and domestic....

..whether they are wearing BUSINESS SUITS or GUNS.

Originally posted by FredMcWoozy
France huh?

Did you know in France if you wanted to start your own business, art gallery, bakery, business services you are not allowed....People leave the country so they can start there own business.

I am not sure you are correct with this statement.

www.french-property.com...

reply to post by Wimbly

Here we go again with partisan issues. Its something that happens so repetitively that it has no originality, depth or any tangibility to what is actually going on.

There are too many people who are fooled by the idea of liberals v.s. conservatives and the OP here is one of them. WE ARE ALL AMERICANS (EXCEPT, OF COURSE, FOR MICHAEL MOORE.) Our country has been rotting from the inside out because people DO NOT RECOGNIZE that all of these people (politicians) are working for the same team. They consistently act as if they are at war with each other while secretly shaking hands behind the scenes and screwing us out of rights, freedoms, and most importantly...MONEY.

The reason why the government can consistently play us like puppets is because the majority of Americans do not recognize the game of chess being played with their hopes, dreams, beliefs, and moral issues.

WAKE UP!!! FOR GOD'S SAKE, LOOK AT WHAT IS HAPPENING AND QUIT FALLING FOR THE SAME GARBAGE THAT KEEPS US DIVIDED. How much more of this can you subject yourselves to??? This stuff that is posted isn't news, this is the same recycled fodder that is used against us so that we will continue supporting this system that takes advantage of us as opposed to look after our best interests. WE DON'T WORK FOR THEM, THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO WORK FOR US.

As far as capitalism goes...Haven't you all seen enough with our corrupted economy to realize that it isn't really capitalism at all?? Take a good look around...something IS FAILING, and it appears to be OUR "capitalistic" monetary system. So...how can you defend something that is slowly draining our economy while we continue to borrow from our supposed "enemies?"

If capitalism is so great, why are we completely reliant on a communist regime (CHINA) to consistently bail us out of our own debt???

WHEN WILL YOU GET IT???

There are so many people on ATS to pretend to know something above someone else and fight relentlessly to prove something that is irrelevant to the REAL ISSUE AT HAND. If you can't see what's happening, then expect this to continue on the same course that has been in the works for decades. Drop you partisan issues, educate yourselves, unify, and then the rest will fall in place. Without unity, we are completely doomed.

By the way, there was no destruction of Michael Moore in this video. That was a very inaccurate assessment from a person who didn't like him in the first place. If that is how you choose to interpret this, then I would suggest taking a course on objectivity.



[edit on 9-10-2009 by EvolvedMinistry]

[edit on 9-10-2009 by EvolvedMinistry]

I'm no Moore fan, but, he was not destroyed in this debate. He actually states good points.

The US of A is NOT a Democracy. We are a Republic. We have elected officials who make our decisions for us.

These officials should be voted out every term so that the government stays fresh.

Secondly, special interest groups have no business in politics.

Thirdly, capitalism is self defeating. By the nature of always wanting to make more everything will cost more. It quickly becomes a "Status Quo" environment......unless you make millions

reply to post by Kaploink


Kaploink,
You should post your statement twice. It was that good.

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
reply to post by Wimbly

 

I fail to see where Michael Moore got "destroyed". Sounds more like the "words" game to you, but if thats your view.

I fail to see how the fact corporate influence in DC proves no connection to capitalism. Capitalism, the unregulated market allows corporations to freely mingle in DC. Its that very system, unregulated system, that has allowed much of the politicians be lobbied.

So true. I had this conversation with someone the other day. In an unregulated system there would be no anti-trust laws. In the end everything would be run by one big Corporation (much like you see in Sci-Fi movies like "Aliens").

reply to post by David9176


I totally agree. I don't want socialism. I didn't want the bailouts (corporatism) and I don't want the health plan (socialism). AND I'm a democrat.

A pure Capitalistic system is the BEST system. Unfortunately American hasn't operated on a Capitalistic system since the Eisenhower administration, and some could argue that it started well before that ... when interest groups influenced the Wilson administration into reinstating the Central Banking System under the name "Federal Reserve".

reply to post by Wimbly


Star and flag for posting a vid that demonstrates just how know-nothing Moore is. All that rambling and he never really addressed the young man's questions. I guess we should be thanking FSM that he even conceded that we do not live in a free market at all. ;o)

reply to post by tyranny22

You've got to be joking. The fact is that our government has passed laws for YEARS catering to mega-corporations allowing them to create such a conglomerate and monopoly that NO ONE could compete with them.

How many mergers have we seen the last few decades...TONS. It seemed like every week for a long time to huge companies would merge and become giant.

It shouldn't be allowed! People don't realize that most of the choices they have for elections are ALL PAYED FOR from campaign contributions from the big boys. They may throw us a bone here or there to keep people content afterwards...but that's it.

Then people go into the ballot box and vote all R's or D's down the list.

It's so insanely stupid.

Anyone that can't see Michael Moore as a hypocrite needs to get their head examined. it's so simple. he rants about a bad system, and uses the same system to profit. there is nothing wrong with making a profit, and I'm happy he lives in a nation that allows him to do that. But recognize him for what he is---a hypocrite--plain and simple.

reply to post by tyranny22

Oh yes...Michael Moore is a know-nothing idiot right? I guess that your education completely supersedes his which puts you on a much higher pedestal of intellect and experience. And lets not forget that HE actually gets to mingle with politicians (something that you cannot make claims to) and probably knows our political structure far better than yourself.

But, I'm so happy that you were able to take the time and grace this board with your superior knowledge and your ability to judge others according to your own predisposed beliefs and savvy.

As it were, I think I'll believe someone like Michael Moore over say, a guy who hates him just because Michael Moore speaks against your preconceived conservative values. And by the way...how is our economy doing again? Oh, that's right...it's still in the tank while we consistently borrow money from China to bail us out of our own stupidity. What was the national debt again??? And before you attack Obama, just remember that Bush was borrowing from CHINA quite regularly to sustain the American way of life far before Obama was elected. I'm sure that in your mind, you'll attribute everything that has negatively occurred in the past 9 years to Obama being in office for less than a year. Just so you know, I DON'T TRUST ANY OF THEM BECAUSE I'M SMART ENOUGH TO REALIZE THAT THEY ARE ALL PLAYING US JUST LIKE TRUMPETS. Does that make me smarter than you? Maybe, maybe not. But at least I can see what I consider to be the big picture. Until you get over your partisan differences and realize who your real enemy is, you'll be stuck in this same rut while our freedoms and economy goes down the garbage disposal. Do you really think that if a conservative was in office that anything would be different? Obama is doing nothing but following in the footsteps of his predecessor by limiting more freedoms, waging more war, and draining the pocket books of the American people. You should be proud. Instead, I'm sure that his skin color, healthcare plan, intelligent capacity to speak, and his "supposed" partisan identity wasn't something that you had planned for, so, you need something to rage against. Michael Moore isn't really the issue here, is it?

All of our political representatives are greedy, warmongering idiots who still believe that they can wage a war against 3RD WORLD people who have never been defeated. You might want to ask Russia how successful their last endeavor against Afghanistan was. And by the way, waging non-stop war has EVERYTHING to do with the reason why capitalism is FAILING. But, I'm sure that you can educate me otherwise...right???

But, here's something for ya...until you can explain to me how Capitalism is so amazing when we depend on Communist currency to stay afloat, I will have to chalk you up as a know-nothing as well. That's MY star and flag.

Actually he almost has it correct when he says a free market doesn't exist. It can't when over regulated or people are kept from competing. Corporations or unions in league with government to keep out competition hurt the free market. I think the problem however is the FED and government policy, though. Specifically the mortgage debacle.

I agree with the others who say his analysis then falls down when he advocates big government and taxes as the solution, but admits it doesn't or hasn't worked in solving the problems. I think the government is the cause of the problems.

He then tells the college students they are getting ripped off on the price they pay for a college education for the type of jobs available. True, for the moment. However things could make those educations pay off. Right now junior college is cheaper.

However he doesn't see that government policy pushed the FED to create a housing boom. All the capital went to overpriced housing and not to industry where it was needed. He will not admit this as the problem. The free market would have avoided this catastrophe by changing interest rates or other market actions.

So if there are no jobs other than Taco Bell. who is responsible? I'd say government and not the free market. And the FED keeps the boom and bust cycle going.

reply to post by wdkirk


Excellently stated. Unfortunately, there aren't more critical thinkers who can recognize the intellect of your post. Most people are too separated by their differences or the "gang" that they're a part of (democrat/republican) to understand the true nature of what is happening.

And I agree with your first statement as well. Moore was not destroyed at all. People say things like that because they want to "frame" things according to their already established opinions. Very sad. In that respect, they're no better than the MSM in which they complain about daily.