Could you wish an ETERNITY of hell on someone?

Originally posted by amazed



That's a slippery slope because, well you just wished it on someone, you wished it on those who, wish it on people.

I was wondering if anybody would notice that!

Congratulations!

Actually, I don't believe in hell, although I consider myself to be Christian. I truely believe talk of the fires of hell, and satan and demons to be fear tactics to get people to keep on coming back to church and tithing.

I'm actually looking for a new church to attend, and I haven't found one yet that doesn't use this ruse.

edit to fix quote



[edit on 2-10-2009 by Blanca Rose]

Originally posted by Blanca Rose

Originally posted by amazed



That's a slippery slope because, well you just wished it on someone, you wished it on those who, wish it on people.

I was wondering if anybody would notice that!

Congratulations!

Actually, I don't believe in hell, although I consider myself to be Christian. I truely believe talk of the fires of hell, and satan and demons to be fear tactics to get people to keep on coming back to church and tithing.

I'm actually looking for a new church to attend, and I haven't found one yet that doesn't use this ruse.

edit to fix quote



[edit on 2-10-2009 by Blanca Rose]

Why do you need any "church"? Believe in yourself, live a good life and be free from organized religion.. Take the hours wasted sitting ina church and do some community service, etc.

Originally posted by reasonable


Why do you need any "church"? Believe in yourself, live a good life and be free from organized religion.. Take the hours wasted sitting ina church and do some community service, etc.

I already do the suggestions you have made.

I also believe that a church is anywhere you are when you want to feel close to God. A blade of grass, a tree, watching an animal play, or admiring the beauty of a rainbow. I could go on and on.

Church, the place where many attend together, is also a place where it can bring families closer together, and where you can also meet people of like mindedness. Some people consider other members of the congregation family, even though they might not be related. I also believe that when prayers are said by a group, rather than just an individual, that there is more power to them, especially if they are prayers for a common good.

I am now located in the deep south, where you cannot turn on any street without seeing a couple of Baptist churches. I just don't agree with Baptist ideology. That is to say, I believe in attending church, and I enjoy it. I just haven't found one yet, down here, that doesn't spout about fire and brimstone every other line.

It is possible to do all you have listed, and enjoy a religious experience also, even in an organized religion. I know because I have experienced it for myself.

What works for me, might not work for others. Everybody should find out what works for them best, as far as a relationship to God, or Jesus, depending on what makes them comfortable.

Church is not for everyone. Nor is any organzied religion.

I'm blessed to have a choice.

For me to be able to wish hell upon someone, first I would haveto fully understand what hell is, and I don't. Secondly, I would have to be able to condemn them to that place myself, which I can't. So in short, no.

IMO, hell is nonexistance. It is the creator taking back what was granted i.e. Existence. Nonexistance would be "eternal" wouldn't it? One wouldn't even realise they were in "hell". So, in a way, no, but on the otherhand, sure why not. Nonexistance can't be too bad as compared to existance. I'm sure some would likely CHOOSE nonexistance if given the option.

A2D


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Originally posted by Donnie Darko
A lot of people who consider themselves Christians have no problem with God sending non-believers and sinners to eternal suffering. This has always bothered me immensely, that God sends anyone to Hell, I can't think of a crime that deserves infinite punishment, and many Christians believe even not believing is a crime worthy of eternal Hell.

I'm a Christian... I can assure of this.

While Jesus was on the Cross he said: "Forgive Them Father, For they know not what they do"


That to me sounds like forgiveness for evrybody.

Is God (The Father) to ignore his Son's request? No.


Nobody is going to Hell, but you will feel the swift kick in the nuts from Karma. If Hitler was responsible for killing 6 million Jews... then he will feel the pain of suffering 6 million times.

Hi, very interesting topic. I actually once made a thread about something like this and other things that didn't make sense to me.


It just seems so weird that Hell, as most people know it, could exist. It doesn't make sense to me. I mean if God has all eternity to spend with Christians in Heaven, why can't He use some of that time to spend on non-believers and helping them change for the better? I believe everyone can change, even if they're someone like Hitler or just really, really bad and "set in their ways". After all, isn't it said that the only certainty in life, is change? Everything is always changing. Why should people be any different? Obviously God wouldn't change though because He is the Source and Creator of everything.

But people change all the time. Especially when they learn new things they hadn't previously known. Then they change their ways and lives accordingly, like say when someone is "born again", or when a new scientific discovery is made.

To me, the only thing that would make sense is reincarnation. And there's quite a bit of evidence I've read about that's convinced me it's real. See if there's reincarnation, you have multiple lives to live through to choose whether or not you want to spend eternity with God. Every lifetime is different and obviously you'd be born into different walks of life where you acquire new insight, giving you more understanding and in a better position to choose where you'd rather end up: Heaven or Hell. Say for example a man is ignorant and racist in one life, but then he dies and is born into a life where he is a man of the "race" he used to look down upon. Then he sees how it actually is to be that man and might experience the kind of racism that he used to dish out! Therefore, hopefully, he would acquire new insight and understanding into something he'd previously been ignorant about.

Imho if God really loves us and we are as precious to Him as He says we are, shouldn't we be given as much information and experience as possible so we can really make an informed decision about where we choose to spend eternity? I mean it's the biggest decision you would ever make, where you would choose to spend eternity. And time has no meaning to God, so I don't know why we'd have a set amount of time in which to make our decision. Only one lifetime? That's barely enough. And hell actually may not exist as another place, it might actually just be here, on earth. The more ignorant you stay, especially of your own choosing, the more you'll reincarnate on earth and stay in "hell". I believe that Buddhism probably has it right.


So no, I wouldn't wish anybody to go to hell, because I believe everyone can change for the better. Though sometimes I do hope some people got to hell, out of anger which I know I should stop, but I could never really mean it

reply to post by Donnie Darko


Yes. On the dillweeds who come here and announce that the world is only 6000 years old.

Originally posted by Donnie Darko
I don't understand why Hell doesn't bother more Christians. I'm Christian and I don't believe in Hell because it seems too far out of whack with Christ's teachings. I think Hell was added in later when the religion was taken over by greed.

I've often considered Hell to be eternity outside of Heaven. As in, you suffer eternal hell by not being allowed to enter into Heaven for not repenting your sins.

Still baloney in my mind, but I agree with you that the concept of Hell is a tool used by the religious controllers of the past in order to force people to follow their rule.

Of the past and in the present I should say, except the level of influence has gone from being able to put to death to 5am tv shows making billions on false faith.

If someone did something really horrible to me or someone I loved, I might wish life in prison, or death, but I couldn't wish eternity in Hell. I could never be okay with the idea that some people are burning in Hell forever and will never ever escape.

I am not sure. There are certain crimes I know I would wish the soul of the perpetrator to never be free again.

Sometimes a person is just pure evil. That happens. I do believe that we are more than our environment makes us. In a way I would consider it the reincarnation of a soul, some good, some bad... some in between.

Some people are just too sadistic to even keep alive, imo.

Yes

there was once this guy named Hitler. he killed millions and might've killed billions if he had gotten his way. some might not think his death was enough punishment for him. he might be a suitable candidate for eternity in Hell.

then again, i have no right to judge.

God is Most Merciful, All-Knowing, and Supremely Just...


[edit on 3-10-2009 by muftanan]

While i dont speak as a christion now i was raised one so i feel i can contribute.

I feel that humans in general have a nature (which is to be mean and cruel and a great many things unjust) and we need a punishment then out lives the nature of our crimes ( just like the attemp of the US courts) to discourage us from certain actions. while the bible speaks of hell and did jesus, i do think a man lived named jesus and he preached peace, i dont believe jesus or got was telling the truth. And no im not calling jesus a liar im just saying if we all were made in god likeness , and we can lie even from a young age, then so can he. then purhaps hell is a lie to help us humans end up with happyer earth based lifes. Frankly i dont care if this goes agienst the idea that god cant be wrong. Because it wouldnt be about wrong it would be a known distruth.

Sorry if that doesnt make sense but im awke enough to want to respond but tired enough i might skip inportant points.

I could never be okay with the idea that some people are burning in Hell forever and will never ever escape.

Nor am I. That is why, as Christians, we need to be out spreading the Gospel. If we do that, the people were fairly warned and decided to not heed the warning. We can't do anything then.

So, I go to hell be because I prefer to use logic, which leads me to think the bible is full of lies, and was written by humans (even if there are some good life lessons in there). What about every person born into a country/family where a different religion reigns, which usually becomes their faith? They just go to an eternity of hell when they've been a good person, and might not even be familiar with any other religion? I don't need your gospel or warnings thank you very much, I'm a happy and vibrant person and my life is brilliant. Have fun fearing hell...

EDIT: I wonder how many people do good things just because they fear going to hell? Will that really get you into heaven?

EDIT:

I personally haven't made up my mind on if there is a hell but the whole idea sounds horrible and contradictory.

There are bigger contradictories than that within Christianity.
Here's an extract from a recent thread of mine, related to this topic:

All religions are different and full of lies about reality, sure, some of the stories my be good life lessons, but it's still the work of man, and a lot of the time, it's just plain bad advice. We don't REALLY know if the universe was created by a God, or if Gods(s) really exist. It's silly to accept everything you are told without evidence. Now you don't have to ask questions at all. Seemingly, some great book has answered everything for you. You now know where you came from and how you got here, you don't really have to ask questions about reality. You now know what's right and wrong. How can you accept all this and be content with it? It's an insult to independent thought. Christianity says it's a sin to be gay. Is it wrong to truly love a person for who they are, does it really matter if if our physical shell is male or female? Isn't it the person inside that counts? Can you not feel deep down inside your soul that man wrote that, as well as other morally questionable things in the bible, through arrogance and bigotry?

In my eyes, religion takes us on a road in the completely opposite direction to where we should be headed. We shouldn't be reading a whole bunch of crap, accepting it as truth, and throw our questions out the window, we should be denying ignorance, we should be seeking real truth and answers, we should be asking questions (with totally open minds), and we should be doing it all without being mentally enslaved and manipulated by reality overlords. If any God(s) do exist, this is the way in which we will be able to know and feel it's existence.

Originally posted by CHA0S reply to post by Zealott

 

Originally posted by Zealott reply to post by CHA0S

 

It was always my opinion that the bible was a step in the right direction but written too long ago. Gays are wrong because if everyone was gay population would suffer. During the times of the Romans and the Athens before that, this was an actual concern.

So you fear everyone will become gay? One could also argue we are reproducing to rapidly, that we will kill the planet and run out of space on Earth, and that gays help balance this out, slowing the rate at which our population increases. I highly doubt there will ever be a day when we lack a sufficient amount of straight people to reproduce. Like you say, why worry about something that doesn't concern you? They deserve a right to love whom ever they like.

Originally posted by Zealott reply to post by CHA0S

 

Say no gays, and then you won't have to worry too much about the population issue.

So we condemn them to hell for some peace of mind?

[edit on 3/10/09 by CHA0S]

My father is a devout Christian, growing up he made all his kids to to church on Sunday. I resented the fact that I had to go and it was not by free choice. The fact of the matter was if it was free choice, I doubt any of us would of gone.

Later in life I can view being forced to go as not such a bad thing. I still carry many of the values and beliefs from my experiences as a child.

I was having a conversation with my father yesterday about this very topic. I was speaking about how the God of the Old Testament and the God of the New Testament seem to be very different. Further more I said the whole concept of Hell seems to be in contradiction to what Christ teaches. I also told him many Christians struggle with the whole concept of hell.

I asked if God created us and he did it out of love, how could a loving God send his creation to eternal suffering? I told him that it didn't add up. My father got out his Bible and we continued the conversation. The thing you need to know about my father is very few can win an argument within the context of the bible. You should see the Jehovah's Witnesses practically run away from his house, pretty funny.

Basically the conversation was cut short because he had a business call to attend to. Where the conversation left off was my father coming to terms that in fact it's not him who decides who goes to heaven or hell but God. I think that was a big step in the right direction.

For many non-Christians the whole concept of hell is overwhelming and many will stop listening at that point.

I personally haven't made up my mind on if there is a hell but the whole idea sounds horrible and contradictory.

[edit on 3-10-2009 by oconnection]

I think more to the point:

How do Christians rectify the existence of eternal punishment (aka Hell) in light of the predicates 'omniscience' and 'omnibenevolence'.

If you know what I am getting at

reply to post by Doomsday 2029

While Jesus was on the Cross he said: "Forgive Them Father, For they know not what they do"

That to me sounds like forgiveness for evrybody.

When Jesus said this during his crucifixion, it wasn't these words that enable someone to be forgiven. It's the Christ's death that does. When someone trusts in Christ for their salvation, they're forgiven. Until then, they're not. This forgiveness is open to everyone. It's just not that when Jesus said this is everyone immediately forgiven. Nor will everyone be.

Instead, when Jesus said these words, he was living out his command to love your enemies. Jesus, through he was just crucified by the Romans and Jews, still loved them.

Originally posted by octotom
reply to post by Doomsday 2029

 

When Jesus said this during his crucifixion, it wasn't these words that enable someone to be forgiven. It's the Christ's death that does. When someone trusts in Christ for their salvation, they're forgiven. Until then, they're not. This forgiveness is open to everyone. It's just not that when Jesus said this is everyone immediately forgiven. Nor will everyone be.

What if they don't know of Jesus or Christianity? And why are we still being punished for what our ancestors did? I will never ask for forgiveness, for I have done nothing wrong, and when I do something wrong, it's up to me to fix it, which doesn't mean asking a God for forgiveness...

[edit on 3/10/09 by CHA0S]

reply to post by CHA0S

So, I go to hell be because I prefer to use logic, which leads me to think the bible is full of lies, and was written by humans (even if there are some good life lessons in there).

No, you don't go to hell for this. You go to hell for not accepting Christ as your savior.

What about every person born into a country/family where a different religion reigns, which usually becomes their faith?

That is why Christians have missions. Christians are to spread the gospel of Christ. Beyond that, that person still always has the ability to go and pursue something else other than their religion, much like many in the west do today. People in the west don't simply stay Christian because they're from here.

I don't need your gospel or warnings thank you very much, I'm a happy and vibrant person and my life is brilliant. Have fun fearing hell...

And that's your choice. I'm not trying to force "my gospel" onto you. You've heard the message and that's all that matters on my part. We'll see how it turns out in eternity.

I don't fear hell. Far from it! I live my life happily every day. Praise my God and savior who died for me.

EDIT: I wonder how many people do good things just because they fear going to hell? Will that really get you into heaven?

I'm sure many do. There are also many people that do good things because it's the right thing to do. There are many Christians, I'm sure, that do good things because they don't think that Christ's payment was enough or are unsure. Still, there are Christians that do good works because it is an evidence of the Holy Spirit dwelling in you.

But, from the Christian perspective, works will never earn you salvation. Only Christ can.

Ephesians 2.8-9:

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Originally posted by octotom
When someone trusts in Christ for their salvation, they're forgiven. Until then, they're not

So if some random tribe in some random location never hears the 'Good Word', what becomes of them?

reply to post by CHA0S

What if they don't know of Jesus or Christianity?

I answered this in the post that I just posted. I guess I don't type fast enough!

And why are we still being punished for what our ancestors did?

We're not. Where did you get that?

I will never ask for forgiveness, for I have done nothing wrong,

Oh? I commend you.

and when I do something wrong, it's up to me to fix it, which doesn't mean asking a God for forgiveness...

When we sin, yes, there is an aspect that we have to fix ourselves. For example, if I flip out on a coworker, I need to go and apologize to him. Doing so restores our relationship. Likewise, when we sin, it also separates us from God, ruining our relationship with him. So, just like with our coworker, we need to ask God forgiveness in order to restore our relationship with him. The first step that everyone needs to take is accepting Christ as their savior so that relationship can be started in the first place.

reply to post by silver tongue devil

So if some random tribe in some random location never hears the 'Good Word', what becomes of them?

As I said before, unfortunately, they'd have to go to hell.

Originally posted by octotom
reply to post by CHA0S

 

That is why Christians have missions. Christians are to spread the gospel of Christ. Beyond that, that person still always has the ability to go and pursue something else other than their religion, much like many in the west do today. People in the west don't simply stay Christian because they're from here.

Yes, but there are always those who will never get a chance to hear about Christianity, and those devoted to other religions. Are you telling me these people will go to hell, even if they were the best person they could be?

And that's your choice. I'm not trying to force "my gospel" onto you. You've heard the message and that's all that matters on my part. We'll see how it turns out in eternity.

Well, you may not, but Christianity has been forced on me my whole life. It felt more like enslavement than salvation. If I go to Hell, so be it, Heaven couldn't be all to good...

[edit on 3/10/09 by CHA0S]