Why Christ was NOT Yahweh of the Old testament

reply to post by doctorex


Has it ever occured to you that maybe.... just maybe the apostles and Christ were all using the OT scriptures in a specific context to better explain the prophecy? I mean, there's plenty more NT verses that speak of Christ being YHWH of the OT. I'm not gonna bother because I've already posted them on this thread. I personally can't believe you're being duped by the COG(PKG) doctrine after all the failed prophecies of Ron Weinland. That alone is enough to discredit your doctrinal views. Of course that's just my opinion.:bnghd:

It could well be that they quoted it always in the context of Yahweh being the father because that is simply how it is.

The only old testament verses that you believe to be saying that Christ was Yahweh is all in how you read it. If you take the interpretation of Christ and the Apostles, then you have the correct interpretation. Look into the verses Christ quoted when he overcame the temptations of Satan. For instance Satan told him he could throw himself off the pinnacle of the temple because it was Prophesied that Yahweh would send his angels to save him....

Mt 4:6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in [their] hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

He was referring to a prophecy concerning the messiah (Psalm 91), who would seek refuge in Yahweh, and that Yahweh would send his angles to keep him. Christ replied that he would not tempt God, and what did he quote?

Mt 4:7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

He quoted....

Dt 6:16 Ye shall not tempt the LORD (Yahweh) your God, as ye tempted [him] in Massah.


The same goes when Satan asked Christ to worship him. He replied with a verse showing he would only serve his father, who in the verse he quoted was Yahweh.

It's all there in the New Testament in plain black and white. Herbert Armstrong simply didn't understand this because God didn't reveal it to him, it was for another time. Just like anything in God's word, when God shows what is true, you wonder how you ever had though differently, because it is so plain, but until God shows it, it's hidden. The church is always coming from darkness into light. You either move forward with what God gives through revelation, or you stagnate. Don't get me wrong though, there is a difference between growing in revelation and going backward by changing doctrine in a backward sense, such as Tkach did in the World Wide Church of God. Herbert Armstrong grew in the sense that he was coming out the trinity as God revealed it to him that God wasn't limited to three, but he only came halfway out of the darkness concerning the nature of God, because that was all God revealed to him. He went from three, to two, not understanding that God, in the beginning, was one (not two), just as it states throughout all the Hebrew scriptures, and that Christ was the first of the first fruits (symbolized in the wave sheaf offering) into that family. If Christ was already immortal and already eternal in existence, why was he the first of the first fruits into the family of God? It doesn't make any sense, unless you understand that he wasn't already immortal until his resurrection. He died, and Yahweh cannot die.

Originally posted by doctorex
Christ is the son of God, he was made by God, he didn't make himself, otherwise he would not be his firstborn son. Also Christ died for our sins, and the Eternal cannot die. If Christ was Yahweh, and he was dead for three days and three nights who sustained existence for that period of time?

You mentioned that Christ was the son of God. With Christ being the son that means He was human and it was the human part of Christ that died, i.e. His body. He was alive spiritually though.

Originally posted by doctorex
JOHN 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, an the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
The above quote is talking about Yahweh, and since everything that was made was made by this being, and Christ himself was made, this is not talking about Christ, Christ is not mentioned until the 14th verse.

If it's talking about Yahweh, then who is the "same was in the beginning with God"? That means there's two people. He was talking about Jesus preincarnate. The word "Word" in verse 14 is the same person in verses 1-3.

Originally posted by doctorex
With that last verse, I'll show that Yahweh was not Christ, because Christ is currently sitting at the right-hand of Yahweh, proving that he isn't Yahweh.
David said prophetically that his lord (Christ) would one day sit at the right hand of the LORD (Yahweh).

That's the human part of God.

Originally posted by doctorex
The above scripture plainly states that Christ did not glorify himself, but that he was glorified by YAHWEH!....proving once again that Christ was NOT Yahweh.

The reason why He didn't glorify Himself was because He humbled Himself as a servant. God was in the body of a man showing us the way back to Him.

Originally posted by doctorex
Some say that since Christ was the word of God, it was him who was speaking in the Old testament, but it was Yahweh, and I've just shown that Yahweh is not Christ. Name any scripture you like, it says "the LORD (Yahweh) said....", and as I pointed out above, Paul said it was God the Father who was speaking to Israel through the prophets, and it wasn't until their days (the Apostles) that God the father spoke to them through His son.... "God who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son" (HEBREWS 1:1-2)

You don't understand that Christ was man and God at the same time.

Originally posted by doctorex
People also mistakenly think that it was Christ who did the physical creating, but that is not true also, since any creating it always said to be done by Yahweh. It was Yahweh who formed Adam from the dust of the earth, it was Yahweh who breathed the breath of life into him, it was Yahweh who told Job he laid the foundations of the earth. I could go on but you get the picture.

That is what John 1:3 states. It was Christ who made everything.

Originally posted by doctorex
People mistake scriptures talking of Christ who made the worlds etc, not understanding the word "worlds" means ages, and they concentrate on the physical creation, not understanding exactly what it is that God is creating, and is still an on going process, his family. It is through Christ he does this creating, because without Christ's sacrifice for our sins, he cannot dwell in us through his Holy spirit to create a right heart and mind in us, allowing us eventually to become born sons of God, just like Christ, but I've been over the creation part of this topic a million times. I just wanted to show why I believe that Yahweh was NOT and IS not Christ. Yahweh is God the Father.

It also says that He made all things. What about Isaiah 7:4 stating,
"The Lord Himself shall give you a sign: Behold, a virgin will conceive and bear a Son and shall call His name Immanuel." Immanuel means God with us.
Also see Heb 1:8
"But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom."

reply to post by texastig


Hi Taxasstig, I've been over all your points through the thread.

reply to post by doctorex


I think you're right that Jesus Christ was not the same as Yahweh, but I do believe he was a messenger of Yahweh, and as such, was designed to spread lies and keep humans in bondage. Jesus Christ was a member of the Yahweh-led elohim, opposed to the Light Bearer, Satan, and His legions.

Originally posted by satanictemple
reply to post by doctorex

 

I think you're right that Jesus Christ was not the same as Yahweh, but I do believe he was a messenger of Yahweh, and as such, was designed to spread lies and keep humans in bondage. Jesus Christ was a member of the Yahweh-led elohim, opposed to the Light Bearer, Satan, and His legions.

Hello there!

Can you give me just a couple reasons why you think Jesus was a messenger of Yahweh? I just dont see it that way at all. Jesus's nature was totally different and the ones that did follow Yahweh denied Jesus because Jesus taught against alot of what they believed.

And in what way did Jesus keep humans in bondage? If we are going by the Bible to then I should add I dont think the Bible is a accurate accont, I do think there is enough within it to see the nature of Jesus but you have to read around the agenda of Rome to see this. Who is to say that when Jesus tells them...you are of your father the devil...that Jesus is not talking about Yahweh?

[edit on 20-4-2010 by LeoVirgo]

reply to post by LeoVirgo


It's all in his name, satanictemple. We have a satan promoter on our hands calling Jesus and God evil!