Masons don't believe Jesus was Son of God.

reply to post by Masonic Light

I have read it, and it is indeed interesting. However, it considered a "pop history" and its conclusions are not accepted by academic historians.

True, but sometimes speculations give birth to research which verifies their validity. It seems at least, to provide some intuitively satisfying explanations, even though it lacks full support for these.

reply to post by kingswillquiver


I'm not a Mason nor am I an member of the Eastern Star.

I believe you miss the concept of being a Mason. It's not to force everyone to be like minded in religion. It's to make good men better.

I have a problem with you saying Christians believe in Jesus because the bible say he is the Son of God. I have to worry about this. They have no other way of knowing for sure except for a book. One deemed holy by certain groups of faith. I think a spiritual connection to him you feel inside would be more of a reason to believe.

Especially when Christ states in the bible the scribes have lying pens.

Did you know God called his son out of Egypt? Did you know there was no true levitical priest in Israel at during the period of Jesus teaching? Guess where the true priesthood were? If you guessed Egypt you are right. So perhaps those priest that you say Christ was trying to reveal the truth from didn't know the truth in the first place.

You say masons are the true anti-christ religion. Stange but they do some of the same works as Christ. They heal sick children. They help people in need. They most usually set a good role model.

But then they blow it because they don't tolerate people like Peter or Judas. Pauls past would of probably kept him from being a member if he was alive today.

So I don't think they qualify.

Maybe the true secret of masonary is they are trying to find a way to combat those evil women. Ones like in the bible. Look at the problems women created for Adam, David, Samson, Jacob, Abraham oh the list goes on. If I was going to keep my eye on any group from a biblical Christian view point I would be focused on a secret womans group. You never know what us evil women are up to.

I see the title of the thread. I see your signature. I know the big 10. Remember the one about bearing false witness? Do you remember the words of Christ about lairs?

So to answer your signature why yes I am are you?

Originally posted by napayshni57
You say masons are the true anti-christ religion. Stange but they do some of the same works as Christ. They heal sick children. They help people in need. They most usually set a good role model.

But then they blow it because they don't tolerate people like Peter or Judas. Pauls past would of probably kept him from being a member if he was alive today.

How is it that Freemasonry doesn't "tolerate" Peter or Judas?

Originally posted by napayshni57
Maybe the true secret of masonary is they are trying to find a way to combat those evil women.

Huh? I'm completely befuddled... There is no reference to women, evil or otherwise, in the entire first page of the thread, let alone the original post which you have replied to... When did this topic start to address "evil women"???

reply to post by Roark

Peter denied Christ, hid himself after Christ was taken away until after his death. Judas sold him out. Masons are a brotherhood where I don't believe they leave each when things get tough. They sure don't sell each other out.

The op wants to use the bible to condemn a group of people. In the bible it seems the male counterpart is the one that causes most of the problems. So why not keep your eye on the male counterpart of the masons instead. Which is the eastern star. I'm sure he could find some thing to post a thread about.

Some thing to the order of : Order of the Eastern Star caught worshipping the Gods named mastercard and visa.

The spouses and significant others in the masons might just agree with the op then. lol

Uh, OK. Thanks! Sorry about that. I completely missed the point there!

Originally posted by kingswillquiver
I was in a debate in another thread, and Augustis Masonicus made the statement,

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by kingswillquiver
I wouldn't expect anything else from the anti-christ religion called Freemasonry.

Why does a person's belief that Christ is not the son of God make them anti-Christ?

While I do not believe in the divinity of Christ I do recognize that he was a great and wise person whose lessons could be better utlized by all of mankind.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

So there's the truth. The basis of the whole religion of Freemasonry.

A: He was stating his opinion and his beleifs, and they no more mean that this is Masonry's beleiefs that it would be to say All English people beleive Christ is not the son of God because here a guy speaking English said so.

B: Masonry is not a religion, never has been.....

C: That statement would likely never be uttered in a Templar York Rite Commandary as it is not only a Christian body, but expects it's members (all masons) to profess it.

You have no idea what you are talking about.

I'm a Christian, I'm a Freemason, I'm a York Rite Templar....and I approve of stating that Christ was son of God.

[edit on 8/10/2009 by ForkandSpoon]

reply to post by ForkandSpoon


Here, here brother!

My Masonic journey has been so meaningful to my relationship with Christ, and to God. I've learned more about faith, hope and charity in the lodge than any of the various churches I've attended. This is not to say the lodge teaches religious lessons, but it amplifies my Christian beliefs to such an extent that it truly brings joy to me now to sit in Church and listen to the Word.

As a Knight Templar I have to agree that seeing the things we've seen, and living through the Orders, that there is a powerful message in Christianity.

There is a particular moment in the Order of the Temple (i won't elaborate but ForkAndSpoon will realize what I mean) where the Cryptic Masonry symbol is explained. It hit me like a truck!

I felt like in this one moment all of my Christian beliefs suddenly made sense.

I should explain for non-Masons - The Blue Lodge of Freemasonry does not require a member to be a Christian. In fact, most of the York Rite doesn't require one to be a Christian, but many of the ceremonies are drawn from the New Testament.

In order to become a Knight Templar, though, it is necessary for a man to affirm his Christian beliefs and swear to take up his sword in the defense of Christianity, and in defense of orphans and widows.

So, to definitively answer the OP headline:

Masons DO believe Jesus was the son of God, especially Templars. Even Blue Lodge Freemasons believe Jesus was the son of God because we believe ALL people are the children of the Great Architect, and Supreme Ruler.

reply to post by kingswillquiver


The Creator is who you should praise and give thanks to every day.

Not a human.

-Thanks.

We're all children of God......it's just a matter of who you feel was Messiah or if they have come yet...Christians obviously feel we know the answer. That said as a Mason we feel that, that in no way makes us better then other men, rather we know that faith without works is dead......and that all men of faith must strive for the life and the morals God has laid before us.

I know many Ministers within the York Rite Commandary...I know of at least one Rabbi who is also in York Rite but merely elected to stop after first two sections of Royale Arch, and Crptic Degrees and doesn't participate in the Templars. There are also Hindu and Muslim and other religious men and ever their clergy within masonry....All of us disagree perhaps on which religion is the "word" of God. However all of us agree in certain principles and wisdom, that are taken from the Old Testiment/Torah. We also beleive our disagreements are not worthy of bledshed with each other, as we ultimately are all worshiping God in the way we feel is correct, and our place isn't to judge the other. If only all men of faith could accept such basic tolerance.

Masonry is NOT a religion in that it does not really concern itself with the life after death, it would council you to go to your chosen faith for that, it's about how to live in THIS life among men of different beliefs. How we can live in peace, with tolerance, and dignity, and to build stronger bonds among men no matter faith or money or power.....

The great problem for all the conspiracy theorists that they do not get, and why so much of their drivel is so rediculous to masons, is that the very idea of an "elitest" few holding power is the exact OPPOSITE of all the lessons of freemasonry, which teach egalitarianism. Should ANY such Illuminati exist, or any other secret world order exist....it would find Freemasons it's most staunch enemy.....and through different ages that is exactly what we have been....Freemasons have ALWAYS opposed such would be despotic rulers.......which is why Freemasons were also slaughtered in Hitler's Death Camps.......and why many of us wear blue forget me nots to this day.

Masonry in antiquity DID get involved with several world revolutions and in every case it was to give more power to people....and take it away from a corrupt, and despotic few. Masonry will ALWAYS side with the struggles of the many rather then any elitest few.

[edit on 9/10/2009 by ForkandSpoon]

Originally posted by emsed1
There is a particular moment in the Order of the Temple (i won't elaborate but ForkAndSpoon will realize what I mean) where the Cryptic Masonry symbol is explained. It hit me like a truck!

I felt like in this one moment all of my Christian beliefs suddenly made sense.

I have to concur, before masonry I was sort fo Semi-Christian I agreed with the moral lessons, but still had many issues with the church, it's history, and more importantly to my faith ,certain theological issues that still kept me from being bale to fully commit to the Christian Faith. I can definately say that my journey in masonry answered many of those reservations, and allowed me to give myself fully to Christ.

I have heard similar things said by Jewish brothers, who were "sort of Jewish" lol....in heritege, but not always in faith, and masonry was a final peice that put their Jewish faith in perspective and allowed them to give themself fully to their faith as well. While I do not know of any I can see how the same could be said from other faiths or help a Muslim, or a Hindu Brahman even.

You might say many reservations men have with faith, lay with our misunderstanding of the world we live in. Once one has a better understanding fo what it means to be human, and of the world we live in, many of the reservations one has melt away.

You have to beleive in a higher power to become a Mason, but by truly growing in Masonry, your faith in that higher power will become stronger.

The Noble Qur'an Sura: 112 Sincerity Verses: 1-4
In the name of God, The Most Gracious, The Dispenser of Grace:
SAY: "He is the One God "God the Eternal, the Uncaused Cause of All Being. "He begets not, and neither is He begotten "and there is nothing that could be compared with Him.

Also to note Jesus's word of "begotten" is really "unique" & that word translates as Monogenēs part of the body from latin manoganiso with what you are referring to in as "Only Begotten Son," reference of thought. Which is a wrong translation by the Protestant bible-(bible equals the word book in greek) of the western world. Remember the middle eastern religions came from different languages before they came off a english press!

John 3:16 RSV
For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. - Around 300 ACE
John 3:16 KJV
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. - 1611 ACE translation appears words started showing up.

ACE= after certain events.

Yes Jesus is unique but he is not begotten nor are we all sons of God that would make us "Apotheosis" Which means to be instantly "to be made divine" now. "In theology the term apotheosis refers to the idea that an individual, group, or locale has been raised to godlike stature." It's fun to play like your little demigods/half-gods? By saying your the sons of the or a God?

Originally posted by kingswillquiver
I was in a debate in another thread, and Augustis Masonicus made the statement,

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Why does a person's belief that Christ is not the son of God make them anti-Christ?

While I do not believe in the divinity of Christ I do recognize that he was a great and wise person whose lessons could be better utlized by all of mankind.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

So there's the truth. The basis of the whole religion of Freemasonry.

What, based on ONE persons person views of Christ you are able to divine the beliefs behind the ENTIRE brotherhood of Freemasons?

I don't think so.

Sorry but it is my opinion that you are simply out to deride masons because one or more told you they did not agree with your view that Christ was the son of god.

Perhaps they could be called anti-christian simply because they make no effort to back the church, but hey the church makes little effort to back Jesus Christ so I guess your all even.

Hey, any mason who doesn't believe in Jesus Christ has every right not to. As a matter of fact, one would be very wse not to believe in Jesus Christ according to the traditional fundamentalist christian tunnel visionist viewpoint. LOL.

reply to post by starwarsisreal


I've heard that the real father was Marcus Aurelius (Cleopatra back door man)

The Freemasons are the Pharisees, Priests, and Kabalah lovers that Jesus fought so hard to reveal the truth from.

Malarky!!! Where do you get that the Masons developed from the Pharisee and Saducees? That is the most uninformed statement I think I have ever heard here, OP!!! I say that in all sincerity.

The Pharisees and the Saducees were followers of the Old Testament!! The Masons,if they orginated from anything it was from the ancient mystery schools of Egypt. You obviously don't know what you are talking about, OP!!!

[edit on 21-12-2009 by SpeakerofTruth]

Kingswillquiver, do some research before you make claims just to fit your personal ideology.

After the destruction of the Second Temple, the Pharisaic sect was re-established as Rabbinic Judaism — which ultimately produced normative, traditional Judaism, the basis for all contemporary forms of Judaism, with the exception of the Karaites.

Yeah

This is why I think anti-Masonry is crappolla. Not only do anti-Masons know nothing about Masonry, they know nothing about anything they try to compare them to.

JEESZUS this thread is so far gone.
I can tell.
What a waste of time.

Originally posted by EnlightenUp
Since when was Bible thumping Christian fundamentalism a requirement to get into freemasonry? Belief in a supreme being, yes. I guess that must mean Satan. There's no other possibility or nuance to anything.

No, I'm not a Mason but I'll stand up against B.S. any day.

Oh man...seriously?
Okay, look, people are allowed to believe whatever they want.
If you want to believe in a religion that's responsible for murdering millions of innocent people and stealing their belief systems, incorporating it into an oppressive, intolerant, bigoted, corrupt and inherently 'evil' theo-political fascist system, then go right ahead.
Me, I'm siding with your 'Adversary', at least that way, I'll have more fun.
And why are people still claiming Freemasonry is a 'religion'?
I thought it was a fraternity...then again, I'm just some guy...what do I know?

It was a terrible joke to begin with, dude. The whole premise of the OP is that, because one Mason doesn't believe that Jesus is the Son of God, therefore NO Masons believe that Jesus is the Son of God.

Anyone who can't see the error in this kind of reasoning needs to unplug their computer and stop making other people stupider by posting on the internet.

Originally posted by Roark
It was a terrible joke to begin with, dude. The whole premise of the OP is that, because one Mason doesn't believe that Jesus is the Son of God, therefore NO Masons believe that Jesus is the Son of God.

Anyone who can't see the error in this kind of reasoning needs to unplug their computer and stop making other people stupider by posting on the internet.

I feel dumber already...
So Roark, you used to be a Mason?