Masons don't believe Jesus was Son of God.

I was in a debate in another thread, and Augustis Masonicus made the statement,

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by kingswillquiver
I wouldn't expect anything else from the anti-christ religion called Freemasonry.

Why does a person's belief that Christ is not the son of God make them anti-Christ?

While I do not believe in the divinity of Christ I do recognize that he was a great and wise person whose lessons could be better utlized by all of mankind.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

So there's the truth. The basis of the whole religion of Freemasonry.

Here's the issue. Christian believe Jesus was the Son of God, because the bible
says so.

The funny thing is, we are ALL sons of God. Jesus wasn't being heretical, he was speaking within the confinement of the bible.

But those that SAID they believed in God, cast Jesus down. These are who the Freemasons developed from.

The Freemasons are the Pharisees, Priests, and Kabalah lovers that Jesus fought so hard to reveal the truth from.

The truth was, these people were making money using God as a means, instead of earning, using favoritism and deception.

Nothing has changed, it has just gotten worse as the Freemason main job is to protect the bankers and their interests.

So yes, Freemasonry is the ultimate anti-Christ religion.

I beg to differ. There are many freemasons who believe Christ was the Son of God. Just not AugustusMasonicus. How can you take the words of one Freemason and apply them to the orginazation?

As I understand it, Freemasonry requires it's members to believe in a Higher Power greater than humans. How does Jesus being the Son of God have anything to do with that.

C'mon, man, I'm not even a Mason and I know this.

Cuhail

So?

I don't believe that Jesus was the son of god either, does that make me the anti-christ?

Probably not the anti-christ but a heathen who should be burned up in a fiery grave right?

Like cuhail said masons believe in a higher power, a grand designer or architect.

It could be Jesus, Jesus' dad, Allah, Buddha, doesn't matter.

[edit on 27-9-2009 by lucentenigma]

Originally posted by Cuhail


As I understand it, Freemasonry requires it's members to believe in a Higher Power greater than humans. How does Jesus being the Son of God have anything to do with that.

C'mon, man, I'm not even a Mason and I know this.

Cuhail

Because Jesus really was the Son of God, fulfilling prophecy.

Ex-33 degree Mason Jim Shaw says; "The Blue Lodge Mason is taught that the "G" in the basic Masonic symbol represents God. Later on, he is told that it represents "deity". Later still, he is told that it represents "geometry". In reality, this letter represents the "generative principle," the Sun-god and, thus, the worshipped phallus, the male "generative principle..." In its position (along with the square and compass) on the east wall over the chair (throne) of the Worshipful Master, it is the representation of the Sun, thus of the Sun-god, Osiris. Its earthly meaning, then, is of the sacred phallus; its cosmic meaning is of the Sun, worshipped since antiquity by pagans while facing the East. Reference, book: The Deadly Deception", page 144

bibleprobe.com...

Cuhail, maybe you should read what ex-Masons say, instead of believing
current Masons.

They are under oath. They are protecting their families.

If they can get other Freemasons to denounce Jesus, the next step of denouncing God is not as difficult.

That's why Jesus is the gate. G8(G20)

[edit on 27-9-2009 by kingswillquiver]

Originally posted by kingswillquiver
I was in a debate in another thread...

Uh, a debate is where you actually address the points the other person brings up. All you did is run over here and try to start an inflamatory and overly general opinion thread.

Originally posted by kingswillquiver

Ex-33 degree Mason Jim Shaw says...

Jim Shaw never received the 33rd Dgeree and since he lied about this (and various other points regarding his participation) I would take the rest of his opinion with a grain of salt.




[edit on 27-9-2009 by AugustusMasonicus]

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by kingswillquiver
I was in a debate in another thread...

Uh, a debate is where you actually address the points the other person brings up. All you did is run over here and try to start an inflamatory and overly general opinion thread.

Your right. I should have said, "being gang posted against"

I have no problem taking on the brotherhood.

reply to post by kingswillquiver


Jim Shaw is a liar and idiot. He was also never a 33rd degree. I can't believe people still take his book as fact after all these years.


[edit on 27-9-2009 by jeasahtheseer]

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by kingswillquiver

Ex-33 degree Mason Jim Shaw says...

Jim Shaw never received the 33rd Dgeree and since he lied about this (and various other points regarding his participation) I would take the rest of his opinion with a grain of salt.




[edit on 27-9-2009 by AugustusMasonicus]

Umm, yeah, right. Your the one with all the secrets, not Jim Shaw.

Pathetic, but typical.

Since when was Bible thumping Christian fundamentalism a requirement to get into freemasonry? Belief in a supreme being, yes. I guess that must mean Satan. There's no other possibility or nuance to anything.

No, I'm not a Mason but I'll stand up against B.S. any day.

Originally posted by kingswillquiver


Umm, yeah, right. Your the one with all the secrets, not Jim Shaw.

Pathetic, but typical.

Um yeah, easy to prove. They publish the list of 33rds every year. Show me which year old Jimmy Boy appeard on this list. Should not take you long since it is the truth, right?

Cuhail, maybe you should read what ex-Masons say, instead of believing current Masons.

Who are you to say I haven't? Who are you to say current Masons are deceiving me? Who cannot say that former Masons might have a grudge and are making their statements to deceive? I can.

They are under oath. They are protecting their families.

So am I and I'm not a Mason. Does that make me evil or the Anti-anything?

If they can get other Freemasons to denounce Jesus, the next step of denouncing God is not as difficult.

I have found/heard no evidence to support that theory. Sorry.

That's why Jesus is the gate. G8(G20)

Is that the new trendy way of saying "Jesus Saves"? Okay, man.

The argument you present is lacking enough substance to keep me interested. Sorry.

Cuhail


[edit on 9/27/2009 by Cuhail]

Jim Shaw's experience.

WINE IN A HUMAN SKULL

When it was time for the final obligation we all stood and repeated the oath with the representative candidate, administered by the Sovereign Grand Inspector General. We then swore true allegiance to the Supreme Council of the 33rd Degree, above all other allegiances, and swore never to recognize any other brother as being a member of the Scottish Rite of Freemasonry unless he also recognizes the Supreme authority of "this Supreme Council".

One of the Conductors then handed the "candidate" a human skull, upside down, with wine in it. "May this wine I now drink become a deadly poison to me, as the Hemlock juice drunk by Socrates, should I ever knowingly or willfully violate the same" (the oath).

He then drank the wine. A skeleton (one of the brothers dressed like one - he looked very convincing) then stepped out of the shadows and threw his arms around the "candidate." Then he (and we) continued the sealing of the obligation by saying, "And may these cold arms forever encircle me should I ever knowingly or willfully violate the same."

The Sovereign Grand Commander closed the meeting of the Supreme Council "with the Mystic Number," striking with his sword five, three, one and then two times. After the closing prayer, we all said "amen, amen, amen," and it was over.
PROMINENT MEN TOOK PART

There were some extremely prominent men there that day, including a Scandinavian King, two former presidents of the United States, an internationally prominent evangelist, two other internationally prominent clergymen, and a very high official of the federal government, the one who actually presented me with the certificate of the 33rd Degree. Some made only brief appearances; others stayed much longer. However, they didn't do much mixing or socializing with us, except for those whom they already knew. Even though these celebrities weren't extremely "brotherly," it was still quite an experience for me just to be associated with them. It was easily the largest gathering of such prominent and influential men of which I have ever been a part.

The third day there was a banquet to celebrate our becoming "Grand Inspectors General. 33rd Degree." The banquet was a little anticlimactic, at least for me, and I was anxious to get it over with so I could return home. It was good to be a 33rd at last. But it wasn't as exciting or fulfilling as I had thought it would be during all those years in the Craft. I guess this was because of the profound changes going on down deep within me.

www.conspiracyarchive.com...

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that believeth on me hath everlasting life."

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


Consider this your last warning... didn't we tell you to stop pretending to be the Masonic spokesperson???? Didn't we tell you your personal beliefs were not those of the other 5million+ Freemasons?



I don't belive in the divinity of Christ either, I don't even think he was a prophet, I don't believe in prophets only psychiatric patients.

Does that make me antichrist? Dunno, to be an antichrist I would first have to believe in that which I am suposedly working against, no?

I do know many Christian Masons though.. many very devout at that. I had even met a preacher who visited lodge a while back. Seems to me they are prochrist not antichrist..

I understand some rejecting YOUR beliefs scares you, that you just don't understand how someone has the audacity to think differently than you... luckily I don't really care.. you only cause your self anxiety and, well, embarassment over fretting that the likes of Augustus and I don't parrot your specific beliefs.

reply to post by kingswillquiver


I guess by you posting that gibberish it means you scoured the internet and were unable to turn up any substantiation of a one 'Reverend' James Shaw and his perfidious claims of having received the 33rd Degree yet you continue to resort to using him as a 'source'.

Typical.

reply to post by kingswillquiver


Are you sure? I watch this documentary called Ring of Power and it says Jesus is the Son of Julius Ceasar and Cleopatra

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


When you made your oath, did you kiss the bible?

Shameful.

First and foremost ONLY CHRISTIANS (generally speaking) believe that Jesus was the son of God. So unless you were to assume that all Freemasonry was ostensibly Christian this would be a fallacious assertion.

Second of all - to paraphrase another - so what? No one - anywhere - has any obligation to accept an article of faith unwillingly. I can't imagine it to be any different for Free Masons, Cabalists, Rosicrucians, or even Amway reps.

Whatever the attraction is to identify the entire community as one thing or another is damning to those who are just plain curious.

And I can assure you, no Freemason that I have ever encountered would be so vain and presumptuous as to speak on behalf of his or her(?) brethren on a forum such as this. It would be at odds with who they appear to be.

I would caution you on vetting your sources more carefully, and also, examine closely your inclination to accept such statements.

No I am not.

reply to post by kingswillquiver


Well talking into consideration that I am neither masonic and neither believe in Jesus been nothing but a human being like me with no more links to a god or creator than the ones we all have, I don't see the problem here with some masons personal beliefs.

Still for what I have read and research before into the Masons, your assumptions of them "putting down Jesus" is not true, as a matter of fact Masons are as Christian as you.

I'm an Atheist here and I'm not a mason, but the original post I find to be an ill-informed troll.

Now you may question what I'm doing even posting in this thread? I'm finding it really tiresome seeing this amount of junk on ATS.

I've read up on Free masonry and regardless of the "Belief in a supreme being" it seems you can still be a christian/buddhist/whatever... now that sounds like a fairly tolerant organisation, so the OP doesn't ring true. Also, so what if some people deny jesus was the son of god? It's their belief, not yours and to post reactionary (troll) threads doesn't seem at all tolerant or compassionate, more like a cheap attempt to garner S&Fs and hammer home an ill-thought out argument... these tend to be the worst sort of threads on here, usually constituting of a knee-jerk, single-paragraphed rant - you can then compare that to other threads where people have obviously researched and put thought into constructing their arguments, these seem to run for at least a few paragraphs and have links to references, as opposed to anecdotal "he said/she said" quotes...

As for the title of this post, it just begs the question "So what?" and also gives the thread a somewhat sensationalist/tabloid bent. As for the "Gang-posting" statement, that really is a weak and flawed argument, that seems to have been invited by the headline - what do you expect when ATS is known to have Masonic members???

AND!!! I restate it here I am not a Mason, but it seems from posts I've read, that they're able to make coherent arguments and back them up with decent research, yet using the bible as evidence is a little shaky considering the contention about who wrote it, when and the various interpretations of it over the numerous years.

Slight edit: Typos

[edit on 27/9/0909 by jokei]