NAVY and NASA - The REAL "Chemtrails"

Originally posted by Imagir
The BARIUM Oxidation occurs very easily and, to remain pure, barium should be kept under a petroleum-based fluid (such as kerosene) or other suitable oxygen-free liquids that exclude air.

Which is the FUEL for airplane?

Yes refined kerosene is the fuel for external combustion engine aircraft.

Piston driven aircraft internal cumbustion use gasoline.

[edit on 23-9-2009 by burntheships]

reply to post by firepilot


umm. i don't think you read me right. let me clarify.

i said i did see contrails, (and they were only persistant if there were clouds at their altitude.), i didn't see them persist for more than an hour even in those conditions. they would disperse. they NEVER were laid down in grid patterns and subsequently joined together to form a cloud barrier.

the germans have ADMITTED to spraying chemtrails.

www.chycho.com...



[edit on 23-9-2009 by billybob]

Originally posted by billybob
the germans have ADMITTED to spraying chemtrails.

No. They haven't.

That video has been debunked a number of times.

The German airforce was training using chaff, which is used as an anti-missile measure by military planes all over the world, and it interfered with weather radar.

Chaff is most certainly not chemtrails. Anyone claiming that video refers to chemtrails is spreading a falsehood. Its simply not true

[edit on 23/9/09 by neformore]

Gee, yet another chemtrail believer spreading misinformation. As many times as that german video has been debunked (even on ATS for that matter) you wonder it they are willfully spreading something they know is false.

Yes the video is about CHAFF. Chaff is not a powder, chaff is not something sprayed.

What is the chemmie fascination with "Grids". If you have planes flying all different directions, like N to S, and many going W - E, well gee, what are you people expecting?

City streets have grid patterns too, when will conspiracy theorist starting up with car-trails and complain about interstate highways being in grid patterns

Originally posted by firepilot
City streets have grid patterns too, when will conspiracy theorist starting up with car-trails and complain about interstate highways being in grid patterns

Many people I interact with on a work based level who believe what Nasa say as truth already complain about gridlock on a daily basis. They wind the windows up so they wont be choked with fumes whilst sitting in gridlock. These same people that I know in my daily goings about would hardly be called "conspiracy theorist's" which is a term I loathe as its creates multi-levels of social dichotomy which as seen in this thread prevents and curtails reasonable interest into an important matter of trying to understand 'what the phuck' the military on this planet are REALLY up to.

If you missed this PDF I highly recommend taking the time to read over it.

www.history.navy.mil...

The U.S. Navy engaged in both aspects of this 1960s space program, military and scientific. The Naval Research Laboratory developed a highly classified satellite reconnaissance system (See Section 2.5) and at the same time participated with the scientific community in unclassified space research (which served in some cases as a cover for the NRL's classified work). The Navy's Transit navigation satellite development at the Applied Physics Laboratory was an exception to the rule. Transit was developed and launched to provide precision navigation for Navy Fleet Ballistic Missile (Polaris) submarines. Initially a classified effort, the technical details of Transit were later released to the public to improve safety of navigation and similar uses.

Read the name of the this very thread and look at the OP posts from two different sources which are mentioned in the article I posted.

I see some people posting how these chemicals are ok to place into the orbit as it won't affect humans here. Now who really knows if it will or not ? I know for sure that anyone defending this DO NOT know.

IF these chemicals that are being released in orbit are KNOWN to go wrong what would be the outcome? Would the organistaions that are responsible provide any compensation for the mis-calculations? My bet is NO as go and talk to any person from Vietnam and regardless of their political persuasion some folk will tear up whilst talking about the effects of completely unnecessary actions which still effect children born to this very day.














[edit on 23-9-2009 by Somamech]

[edit on 23-9-2009 by Somamech]

Well seeing no matter what I do to edit a quote from My post above works.... I will post what is supposed to be quoted txt box below in txt

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Eisenhower administration determined, therefore, to pursue space goals in two distinct parts: military and civilian. The civilian part would be overt, "scientific," highly advertised and fully exploited for its world propaganda value [4]. The military part would be covert and highly secret. (The high degree of secrecy was as much to avoid bad publicity abroad as it was to keep the Soviets from knowing the details.) The mere existence of U.S. spying and other sensitive military applications from space would not be acknowledged openly by the U.S. government.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

whatever you wanna believe. i am not purposely spreading falase information, and i'd love a link to this supposed "debunking" of the german video.

and for those who would like to know more (obviously not the rabid defenders of the contrail theory), here is a video...

Google Video Link

testimony from the doctor connected to the NSA and the pilots who are doing the spraying is pretty interesting to me.

it's amazing how you can't mention chemtrails here without a horde of "debunkers" jumping down your throat. just like 911 debbies, these people have nothing better to do with their time then argue with people who they think are crazy.

911 was an inside job, the CIA killed kennedy, the fourth reich runs amerika and all wars are engineered for profit and control, and we're all slaves to the rockefellers and the rothschilds. if you don't know these things, then you trust the powers that be too much, and you can believe what the television and newspapers want you to believe.

absolute power corrupts absolutely. "they" have absolute power. do the math.


[edit on 23-9-2009 by billybob]

These are NOT contrails.
THESE ARE CHEMTRAILS....

And remember THE CLUE is BARIUM

reply to post by Imagir

Why do you say they are not contrails?
Why is barium the clue?

Originally posted by billybob
whatever you wanna believe. i am not purposely spreading falase information, and i'd love a link to this supposed "debunking" of the german video.

Contrail Science

The big problem with the video is the translation. In the shot above, the german word “duppel” is translated as “chemical trails (chemtrails)”, when the actual translation is “chaff”. The German word for “chemtrail” is “chemtrail“.

Originally posted by billybob
whatever you wanna believe. i am not purposely spreading falase information, and i'd love a link to this supposed "debunking" of the german video.

Why not just email Karsten Brand and ask him yourself?

Originally posted by Imagir
These are NOT contrails.
THESE ARE CHEMTRAILS....

And these are not chemtrails, these are CONTRAILS

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/a580808a166b.jpg[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/4d4f4f9aeaf3.jpg[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/23d0c09e6386.jpg[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/461aaea1942d.jpg[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/b94a5a888213.jpg[/atsimg]


The difference is they are taken by someone who spends a lot of time photographing the sky, rather then surfing the net Maybe some folk need to get out more?

reply to post by neformore


from your debunking website...

Summary:

* A meteorologist sees cloud images on radar that he thinks are not actual clouds, he estimates they are 350 km long.
* He asks the government (via his local Green Party member) if they made these clouds with chaff.
* The government denies this, but says maybe the Dutch, but probably not for clouds that big.

i'd say that "debunking" debunks itself. they are talking about TONS of material, but the military only admits to small amounts.

reply to post by billybob

Aircraft do not carry "tons" of chaff and it does not take "tons" to produce long reflections on weather radar.

Chaff is frequently released by military aircraft in the desert area west of the Great Salt Lake (GSL). The chaff is seen on the radar display usually as narrow bands of high reflectivity that travel with the winds after emanating from a point source. Sometimes these chaff echoes can stretch for hundreds of miles. The bands are also very shallow and are usually seen on only one tilt of the radar, though this depends on the range from the radar and the amount of diffusion time. As chaff drifts closer to the radar site, it may be seen on several tilts making it more difficult to distinguish from actual weather.

www.wrh.noaa.gov...

Chaff is composed of small glass fibers with a metallic coating. It is deployed in a cloud, it's purpose being to protect the plane from radar guided missiles. It falls very slowly but I wouldn't really want to get showered with it. Still, I would rather our pilots did get the training they need to; a) avoid being shot down b) shoot down the bad guys.

The potential for chaff to affect soil and water is remote. Levels of use and accumulation would have to be extremely high to generate any significant adverse effects. Laboratory tests of chaff, using a modified toxic characteristics leaching procedure, indicated little or no potential for adverse effects on soil. Adverse effects to sensitive aquatic organisms, although unlikely, may be possible in certain small, confined water bodies. These should be addressed on a case-by-case basis in areas proposed for chaff use that include highly sensitive aquatic habitats.

The materials in chaff are generally nontoxic except in quantities significantly larger than those any human or animal could reasonably be exposed to from chaff use. Safety risks were found to be extremely low and isolated to specific circumstances that can be avoided or managed. The primary issue is the potential for interference with air traffic control radar, which is managed by requiring units to obtain a frequency clearance from the USAF Frequency Management Center and Headquarters Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) prior to using chaff that could interfere with air traffic control radar. Air quality issues included questions about the potential for chaff to break down into respirable particle sizes and the possibility that hazardous air pollutants may be generated from pyrotechnic impulse cartridges used with some chaff models. ‘Ibe results of chaff particulate tests and a screening health risk assessment concluded that these are not significant concerns.

www.globalsecurity.org...


[edit on 9/23/2009 by Phage]

Why am I not surprised??

Six pages, and the lemmings have taken the bait....right over the cliff....

I would be astonished, but that's hardly possible anymore........

reply to post by billybob


Nice side step.

The site also points out several major flaws in the claims made about the video.

I notice you missed out Karsten Brandt actual comments - and remember - this is the guy who is on the actual video that has been taken completely out of context;

Are they “Chem Trails?
On various Internet sites there passionate arguments about aircraft spraying chemicals to either change the ozone hole or, acting for the United States (who else also ..), to change the weather – for world domination. This is – according to the supporters of this conspiracy theory – not just an occasional trial, but regular, worldwide and especially in Germany. The sprayed chemicals leave greyish-white trails in the sky that are not like normal contrail, “Chem Trails” look quite different and also behave differently.

The beauty of this conspiracy theory is this: Everyone can see the trails, everyone may feel threatened, but no (normal) citizens can touch or examine them. The web pages show photos of various trails, and the “strange” pattern they leave behind in the sky.
For the layman, it is, at first glance, odd that one day contrails stay in the sky for hours, but the next day they dissolve within minutes . However, this “phenomenon” varies with the humidity and the change is very easy and simple to explain.
Of course, we also can not be absolutely excluded the possibility that a plane sprayed chemicals in the atmosphere. But as regularly and as extensively as has been claimed by the conspiracy theorists, you can just use common sense to exclude. For such a comprehensive worldwide conspiracy, there would have to be not only thousands of US pilots involved, but also scientists, German authorities, etc., etc. . How probably is it that with such a number of people, there is no leak?

You claimed the video shows the Germans military "admitting" to chemtrails. It doesn't though, does it?

Hell, even the guy in the video you claim as evidence doesn't think thats the case.

I have gone away somewhat from the original topic in debating this - and for that I apologise - however if spurious claims are being made, its only right that the facts are presented properly - otherwise the myth of these things continues while any real debate about the subject is lost.

well, chaff is in fact chemicals, and various ones according to the reports.
and, it is sprayed from military planes without asking anyone underneath it if they mind.
and they spray whatever they feel like spraying.
cloudseeding experiments have been going on for decades.
outright denial that anything is ever sprayed that may be harmful is downright suspicious.

contrails are not the same as they were when i grew up, period. i didn't find out about them from a website. i looked up and noticed.

reply to post by billybob

No.
Chaff is not "chemicals" and it is not sprayed. The locations and times in which it is used for training is carefully controlled. It is not "chemtrails".

The FAA has placed more stringent restrictions on DOD use of any type of chaff that operates within the bands used by air traffic control radar and navigational systems. In taking the more conservative approach to air traffic control and flight safety, FAA has limited or placed restrictions on the locations, altitudes, and/or time periods within which specific types of chaff can be employed.

www.globalsecurity.org...

Cloudseeding occurs in and under existing cumulus clouds. It is not done over widespread areas. It is not "chemtrails".

Hi, chemtrails fans.

I can't believe that the "negators" use MSM and MSI MSW stuff ! !
[ Main Stream Media, MSInfornation, MSWebsites ] ! !

Hey ! are we in a conspiracy forum ?
? Did we not learn that all MSM MSI MSEverything is censored,
biased, . . . ?

And the chaff-hundred-miles-long argument used, is DISinformation !
Any one that knows a little about jet fighters, KNOWs that
they throw chaff by squirts; NOT hundred miles long shots ! !

A fighter DOES NOT WANT to be found without chaff left ! !
He will die ! !
So, he goes ***intelligently***, with his load !
He DOES NOT DO hundred miles long shots,
that will empty his reserves !

So, when the trails in the radar are hundred miles long, it is NOT chaff !
Many know what flares and chaff are for, RIGHT ?

EDIT to add: -hundred-miles-long.

Blue skies.


[edit on 2009/9/23 by C-JEAN]

reply to post by Phage


Thanks for clearing this..... i had the doubt about how that cloud would look like at night.... so i guess it´s just a cloud that i didn´t know about... Again... Thank you... i like this page for the amount of knowledge that the members and moderators have.