NAVY and NASA - The REAL "Chemtrails"

reply to post by choche

That is called a sundog. They are caused by sunlight hitting the ice crystals in cirrus clouds.



www.islandnet.com...


[edit on 9/22/2009 by Phage]

Outside of the thread start, due to the nature of some of this activity, I'd say not all chemtrails are military, but rather of economic importance. (Although the military would have to support or know about the operation in some way in order for it to proceed on an effective scale.)

I'd suspect some of the higher altitude chemtrails are just a bandaid for the thinning ozone layer problem we created for ourselves in the recent past. No proof to back up this idea, but some of the suspected metal oxide compounds supposedly released would actually be good for this. This is because: the chemicals absorb UV, and in the right conditions when exposed to UV - thus they act as a catalyst for ozone production. Some of the other suspected chemicals also may help precipitate chorine or flourine out of the atmosphere too. So if you wanted to attempt patching the ozone, that would be the best chemistry to go with. (Not a chemist, but googling the right terms and having curiosity yields some interesting data.)

Still, those compounds aren't exactly the best things to be breathing in once they get down to where we are. So it's trading one problem for some others. (Instead of bad sunburn and skin cancers, you may get asthma and other respiratory or immuno-inflamitory disorders.)

The advantage may be not needing level 50 sunblock anytime you go outside, and for wanting food crops to be a bit more productive for lack of excessive UV damage. (I figure the second one may be economically important enough to put money behind.)

Now if the ozone layer is actually bad enough where an expensive bandaid process is needed to CYA, I suspect TPTB wouldn't exactly want the public knowing about it. (Especially when the parties involved in causing the environmental damage have been able to get away pretty much scot free. Outside of major chemical companies, who would be left to hold accountable anyways? And also, how would you go about in explaining the tradeoff risks for your bandaid process once disclosed?)

Which makes me wonder, has anyone ever done UV level monitoring in an area before and after chemtrail sightings? I'd be curious to know if there's anything to this idea.

reply to post by Phage
There is another thing I came across, and regarding standard additives in all Jet fuels,(as far as I know) Dinonylnapthalene sulfonic acid=Barium Salt. Some other additives are TM secrets but are also thought be Barium derivatives. So you could speculate from that, that a contrail equals an accidental chemtrail. DSA is used most likely for a cleaner burn, maybe to take out water pollution in the fuel, I don't know.



edit x 2 to add this link,chemtrails.cc...



[edit on 22-9-2009 by smurfy]

reply to post by smurfy

There's no denying that there are exhaust products in contrails, they are produced by engines after all. But the only difference between contrails and persistent contrails is the atmospheric conditions in which they form.

reply to post by OzWeatherman


Thank you for the diplomatic response and link.

I realize there are those of you who have a wealth of knowledge, a science-based background, and experience researching contrails vs. chemtrails and weather changes due to chemtrails vs. normal cloud patterns - amongst other topics.

There are a few of us, however, who are nowhere near your level of understanding in this matter, nor a clue how to research this topic... yet we know something unnatural is occuring in the skies above, and have just enough info to be concerned. Hopefully, you won't be too distracted by the few of us who have yet to learn the basics, and don't have enough time to devote to the search for truth.

I have always been very observant, and what I have seen in cloud pattern over the last say 10 years is much different than the first 30 years of my life here. More recently, I have also noticed an irridescent or illuminescent quality in the "fog" that appears after very high altitude lines of "cloud" had appeared over same location. It is not the same fog that rolls in from the coast line.

Looking forward to reading more.

I applaud each of your efforts to connect the dots.

reply to post by Phage
Agreed Phage, but that is not what I mean when I say a contrail is a chemtrail. I live right below a flightpath for two landing airports, no landers have any visible exhausts ever noticed, nor by small jet planes. Also the flightpath for high altitude transatlantic jets is right overhead as well, West/East or vice versa, and also high altitude jets mostly North,(no idea where they are going) the high altitude jets as described always have a contrail (aka) a chemtrail.Very occasionally there may be a jet go by at a lower altitude than usual cruising which will show an exhaust sporadically. So you have to say, it's not so much the engine that produces the toxic "stuff" but more the toxic stuff that is already there, and combustion after that.

[edit on 22-9-2009 by smurfy]

reply to post by smurfy

You've demonstrated my point. The conditions which are conducive to contrail formation (primarily very cold temperatures) normally occur at high altitudes.

BTW, north bound high altitude jets are probably on their way to Asia or the west coast of the US, via the polar routes. They have a long way to go so will fly at very high altitudes.


[edit on 9/22/2009 by Phage]

reply to post by Phage
I agree, it's basically steam, plus the naughty bits, and I have said about the former before in other threads. Having said that how do you differentiate between a deliberate Chemtrail and a jet exhaust? it can't just be cloud formations, jets do that anyway.
As for the Northbound jets, I live on the East coast in N. Ireland, and the US is West of me, and any jets I mentioned going North at high altitude are headed straight for the North/North East of the Pole.


[edit on 22-9-2009 by smurfy]

reply to post by smurfy

I don't differentiate. I don't believe in "chemtrails". They are all contrails.

There is no reason to believe that contrails are anything more than clouds of ice crystals (plus exhaust products). They are not created deliberately, they are a product of the combination of hot water vapor in the exhaust and very cold temperatures aloft. When it is cold enough and/or the humidity is high enough, the contrails persist and spread.

You'll note that the photographs of the B-17's at altitude on the way to bomb Germany also had these contrails, and they were piston engines.

Same thing with the B-29's in the Pacific theatre.

And no chemtrails.

All contrails.

reply to post by Phage
That is what I have already said,"accidental chemtrails" as regards jet exhausts, because that is what they are and they are also the normal contrails as we all can see. A deliberate spraying of toxic material is a different matter, and that's where the differentiation is and there is no way of knowing. I'm actually agreeing with you in most areas as regards this thread other than we cannot know for sure.

reply to post by Phage


The day locomotive sized exhaust trails form behind my vehicle in the Winter time, I'll believe you.
OzWeatherman- I would love to see you debate Dr. Nick Begich on Haarp & Chemtrails...

Originally posted by dooper
And no chemtrails.
All contrails.

But the thread is not about contrails...

...its about spaceship "chemtrails"

Deliberate trails of chemical sprayed out for 'experiments'

And I haven't even gotten to the satellites 'spraying' stuff that is in the plans (and patents)

reply to post by Marrr

Does it get to -45º where you live? That's about how cold it would have to be. But your vehicle probably doesn't produce as much water vapor as aircraft engines do so the contrail wouldn't be as large.

It does get that cold in Antarctica:

When it’s around -40°C/F and colder, this makes it super easy for clouds to form. It’s so cold that contrails can form on the ground. I’ve included a picture of a C-130 that just landed. And it’s producing a contrail on the ground.

nbc5weather.wordpress.com...


[edit on 9/22/2009 by Phage]

reply to post by zorgon

The thread title says "Chemtrails".
What did you expect to happen?

Great stuff as usual Zorgon Funny how some will come in and do their darnedest to sway the conversation to their way of thinking. Its almost like they can't stand any other thinking outside of what they want us to think. So vehement and determened in opposition they are. Almost like they are on a mission. Funny that

[edit on 22-9-2009 by Barkster]

Hi zorgon,

Excellent thread, and apparent fight.

S&F

Has anyone found the Earth Protection System Zorgon mentioned ?

I hope someone does as I find this quite educational as I've never looked into this area which the thread is about

Surely there's another thread around here where people can argue about contrails

The test of noctilucent clouds seems rather normal given the increase in natural ones occurring as of late. Over the past year ATS has had articles on Noctilucent clouds that have stupefied scientists...

So to me it just makes sense that we would be doing tests to better understand them.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by Bspiracy

 

Those are called altocumulus clouds and they form at lower levels than "chemtrails". They, like contrails, have been around for a long time.
www.chitambo.com...


[edit on 9/21/2009 by Phage]

You can try that avenue all you want, but I'm the one that took the image. It was on a day when the air was not moving in low or high areas. That cloud stayed there for an hour never moving one way or the other but only morphing in place. The ripples were exact right angles and the hexagons were apparent. The ripples were moving across one another on the same plane is 6 different directions at once. it was surreal.

The conditions the day before and night before were full of trails. the rainbow patterns during the dusk hours made the clouds look like my car had been leaking in them for days. I live directly on the water and we have no smog or pollution that would cause that and like I mentioned previously, those conditions have disappeared from my area for over a year when they were once 4 times a week.

I've searched every cloud database out there to find a match to that picture and I've been asked to forward to meteorologists. No one after looking at the 10mp image was so sure as you are.

The conditions were perfect for the energy exchange to be seen. NO wind, heavy saturation of whatever it was in the air that made the clouds oily looking and something was making it react like it was hardwired to a sonic cleaning device.

You believe what you wish though and myself and many others know what we saw.

b