NAVY and NASA - The REAL "Chemtrails"

"2) Purposes:
-Allows for control of some physical processes in the space environment
-Allows for possible denial of adversary communication/navigation systems (military)
-Allows for possible new communication system techniques (military)"

Wont this cut off communication with any sentient beings up there, this could be a means to keep control from alien life perhaps.

reply to post by Mandoon


Not at all as the Aboriginals are still reporting alien contact to this day

Ahhh hahhh....

I admire history as my avatar may suggest for many reasons and in this case when shown certain parameters one can find certain points in History which inter-connect... which in saying so it makes some comments in this thread redundant as said comments are based on what happened a few days ago

Lets take a trip in time travel back to 1958 and the Naval Research Lab


Operation Argus Atmospheric Tests 1958 Vintage Atomic Bomb Film




Now that whole program as seen was based on the Magnetosphere as seen in that 45 minute video

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/875e11097098.jpg[/atsimg]


[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/82324fe37efe.jpg[/atsimg]


[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/f85c673bb80d.jpg[/atsimg]


[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/60ee4e26a9ec.jpg[/atsimg]


[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/3e7d7f16322b.jpg[/atsimg]


[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/825ac97474e5.jpg[/atsimg]


Well that should make anyone wonder what they are up to now :O

Originally posted by weedwhacker
Really. I'm trying to wrap my head around the Earth. No, not literally, but just calculating the immensity of it, the SURFACE AREA of the entire globe, and then trying to see how in the dickens we puny Humans can hope to make something THAT large and widespread with our current technology....

Ahhh there it is The Magic Question....

Your right you know... that puny little HAARP couldn't do a global thingie, that's for sure... but you already saw two other locations mentioned, the one in Norway and the use of the Arecibo dish..

Well hang onto your hat fly boy, because it's about to get interesting

Originally posted by Phage
HAARP and other similar programs can affect only a very small part of the ionosphere at altitudes far above the layers of the atmosphere which involve weather. The experiments have no lasting or dramatic effects on the ionosphere. The effect of the Sun is millions of times greater than what HAARP can produce.

Fear not oh noble opponent... I will get to the HAARPies soon... and we will speak again of weather, defense and power requirement...

Originally posted by Phage
There is nothing in the document which indicates "that HAARP is most definitely involved".

Well perhaps you and your 5 starlings should look a little closer..

I can clearly see the words HAARP Transmitter in that slide show... so Virginia Tech seems to thing it's involved




Sometimes I do notice that some people tend to focus on only one small section of a piece of the puzzle and brush everything else off the table... rather than sit back for a second and look at the implications of the whole picture


[edit on 22-9-2009 by zorgon]

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by Phage
There is nothing in the document which indicates "that HAARP is most definitely involved".

Well perhaps you and your 5 starlings should look a little closer..

Perhaps you should.
Nice try on the switcheroo. Wrong document.

When you said, "that HAARP is most definitely involved", you were talking specifically about the CARE document. The document which references HAARP is talking about natural dust in the ionosphere. See, up above the HAARP transmitter? It says "Natural Dust Layer". See the slide with the artificial dust cloud? That one doesn't say HAARP, does it?

Sometimes I do notice that some people tend to focus on only one small section of a piece of the puzzle and brush everything else off the table... rather than sit back for a second and look at the implications of the whole picture

Often I notice that some people ignore and intentionally misdirect attention from details which contradict their speculations about the "whole picture".

[edit on 9/22/2009 by Phage]

Originally posted by neformore
Lets get some grounding and some terminology sorted out here a moment.

The recognised - and indeed long held definition of "Chemtrails" refers to what people see as lines in the sky. Those lines (and I'll go out on a limb right now and say that I beleive they are contrails, and nothing else) are generally formed at altitudes greater than 26,000 feet by aircraft passing overhead. (4.5-5miles plus)

Granted... the 'official term 'Chemtrail' has been used specifically in regards to contrail like looking trails from airplanes leaving chemicals.

Me personally... I am not that focused on that... spraying pesticides on an unaware population, spraying agent orange on people as a test with out their knowledge... running military aircraft spewing out tons of toxic fuel remnants ( I have the data sheets)... high altitude 'experiments' dumping chemicals from rockets and satellites to effect the weather, the ionosphere and the magnetosphere...

To me its all the same... but if you want to nit pick the term and its usage... fine...

Chemtrails of the 1st Kind...
Low level spraying of pesticides, crop dusting, chemical defoliants etc. These chemicals directly get into the air we breath (I still remember the mosquito foggers driving down the streets while kids played), the water we drink and the food we eat via the soil... Not to forget military testing of sprays on people (Don't believe me just google 'Agent Orange tests on towns')

Chemtrails of the 2nd Kind
These would be your aeroplanes spraying for whatever reason... I really don't see the difference WHAT the reason is IMO... smoke from sky writers, bad engines, nasty military jet fuels, cloud seeding... all of those are putting harmful chemicals into the air. It also seems MOST LIKELY that if they are now doing it in the upper atmosphere and space, that they MOST LIKELY did or are still doing, low level atmosphere tests first. In fact they even did it with Nukes in the 50's and 60's (yes I have the data for later)

Chemtrails of the 3rd Kind
LEO rockets dumping chemicals to 'test' changing the ionosphere etc. The use of high energy electron fields like HAARP produces to create plasma mirrors for a number of reasons

Chemtrails of the 4th Kind
Satellites in orbit releasing times amounts of chemicals like barium or gases for what ever reason we can still only guess at...

So you and other skeptics may wish to poke at the term 'Chemtrails' and stick to the narrow focus so you can say "But those are not chemtrails, they are rockets trailing chemicals"



To me its the same thing, dumping chemicals into the air... by what ever means... the end result is the same

Often I ignore and intentionally misdirect attention from details which contradict their speculations about the "whole picture".

*FIXED* for historical reality

reply to post by zorgon

Hi zorgon ! !

WAY TO GO ! ! S & F ! ! and to all that understand, too !

And, in a parallel way of thinking, if the **stuff** does not
come out of a medium or heavy 2 or 3 or 4 engine winged JET,
we could call it a CHEMDROP ! ! ! B-)
I will always love "my" little-chemdrop-one there:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

CHEMTRAILs = CHEMDROPs = RARELY good =
= last 2 lines of my signature. . . B-)

And I guess that those who do the "doubtful" chemtrails,
[and we know what are and that persistant contrails exist, also ! !]
they are as much crazy b4st4rds as those in Monsanto ! ! ! and as
psychotic b4st4rds using MSG, Asparthame, fluoride, mercury. . .

We must think about what "big-pharma", "petrol", "armament"
do to all of us, and even to themselves ! !
Soooooo, CHEMtrails/drops are not a big surprise ! ! !

This is like 9/11. . . One day, the true story WILL spread out ! !

Blue skies.

Originally posted by zorgon
To me its the same thing, dumping chemicals into the air... by what ever means... the end result is the same

Except that if its in LEO, its not "in the air", its in space.

Technicality I know, but kind of an important one, don't you think?

reply to post by Annav
Is that airplane pic a joke ? it is cited as a contrail which it is quite obviously not. There is enough confusion in this thread already. The only things I can find in common with CARE and HAARP re; the CARE experiment, is that Noctilucent clouds and the Plasmasphere are cold areas and that both are highly Radar reflective. Anything to do with Chemtrails would be much nearer the ground...like your pic actually!

reply to post by zorgon


Not to rain on your parade, again

Chemtrails of the 3rd Kind
LEO rockets...

...and....

Chemtrails of the 4th Kind
Satellites in orbit...

...can really sorta be bunched into one category, it would seem.

Oh...wait. "LEO rockets"? They don't actual orbit, right? More of the 'sub-orbital' flavor? They manage to reach 3-4 km...to 'test' changing the ionosphere. I'd think the 'testing' would be affecting rather small areas. AND i would like to see strong data for how stable and persistent such a "plasma mirror" would be. There's a lot of garbage out there, hitting the magnetosphere, and leaking through...isn't there?

As to orbiting satellites. Hmmm....those must have HUGE payloads, eh?

How are the "barium and gases" gonna leave orbit, and re-enter to cause harm to the ecosystem? I mean, they're on orbit, so all their molecules are moving along at a pretty good clip....

But, we leave that one as an open question, and just dangle it for someone else to run with and be paranoid about, because as you said, we can only guess at the reason for them.

To me its the same thing, dumping chemicals into the air... by what ever means... the end result is the same.

Really?

Dumping chemicals into the air...umm, that's been going on since AT LEAST the 19th century. Something called the Industrial Revolution. Coal burning, in factories and such.

We've really gone for it lately, of course...more people, more factories, more vehicles.

I'd be interested, if yo have the time, if you could correlate data from known and recorded land-based (and aviation vehicular traffic) air pollution sources, and see if the proposals noted in your OP from NASA and HAARP and others compare to a large percentage. I could have made that sentence simpler: What percentage of air pollution from these new experiments will we see in the over-all air pollution data that is collected?

Originally posted by zorgon
I tend to believe the MAJORITY of readers here comprehend what this implies just fine...

Funny thing about "implication"......it has a nasty tendency to be intentionally misleading. So, are you being coy and "implying" these connections? Or are you being very careful to not state them as "real world" or fact?

Welcome to the world of "zorgon's" conspiracies. Where many don't realize it's simply a different version of "The Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon" game.....doesn't make any difference how relevant the connection between A and B is....as long as there is some kind of (usually irrelevant) reference.

[edit on 22-9-2009 by MrPenny]

reply to post by weedwhacker
Hi Weed,
This is the thing really that's kinda mixed up things here. Barium is used in cloud seeding and will be in our atmosphere. Whether it is abundant enough to be toxic,(or not) is a guess based on what is known, but cloud seeding is something I do think that is going on at present in areas that are not needing precipitation. It's not something I can prove, and since first off, you need a reason why, that reason is something I will have to attempt to find out.

reply to post by smurfy

Silver iodide, CO2(dry ice), and salt are commonly used for cloud seeding. Barium is not.

[edit on 9/22/2009 by Phage]

reply to post by zorgon


Another great "world theory" post zorgon! S/F....

Personally I understand the connection you are trying to make, although it is apparent some do not or some are just nitpicking for various other reasons.

Anyways, nothing is certain by far, but you have done a great job in at least an attempt to take actual documentation and relate it to a major fringe phenomena. By the way, I do not believe in 'chemtrails', in the strict sense of the word. I do however think that what you are postulating is possible at least. As far as "the Earth is an awful big place to cover", well that could be taken care of with strategically placed stations throughout the planet. Now of course people will argue "even then we still do not have the technology to cover that large of a sky, or to be able to affect it well enough to do anything". Well also keep in mind that it is CERTAIN that you (whoever "you" applies to in this case ) do not know hardly any of the secret technology the world powers posses, I promise that. We are not talking about needing Star Trek-like technology to pull this off anyways.

Great job again zorgon in attempting to piece the puzzle together. At least you are doing that, which is far more than the majority of people in the world IMHO. LOL, nice job on the Hynek relation to the "chemtrail types". I look forward to more information soon.

reply to post by Phage
Hi Phage my info is that Barium Oxide,(Barium salt?) is used in cloud seeding.
I did not say it was commonly used, although that may well be the case.

Very good info... congrats.... as i read i remember an old photo that i made... so i search for it... date 25 april 2005/ 2:16 p.m. (info in the original photo).. location somewhere in the desertic area between San Luis Potosi and Saltillo, Coahuila, México.... as i return to my house in monterrey i saw these strange luminosity cloud.... i thought it was just a refelct of the window, but later when i moved i keept watching it..... so i turn down the window(i don´t know if these expresion is accurate) to make sure it wasn´t a reflect.... so there was a lot of sun and the cloud was still shining.... i don´t know how much time was there but i can assure that it was visible for al least 40 min. after it was out of my sight.... i leave the picture for you to judge..... maybe it was natural.... but i´m always looking the sky and is the only time i´ve seen a phenomen like these... fortunly i had the camera because i was on vacation... i used a rapid speed of obturation to make the photo darker and with the window of the car up.... so if you see little reflects... trust me the cloud was not affected by the reflects... sorry for the gramma