Tyrants who love "conspiracy theories"

Originally posted by pai mei
Problem: 80% of Venezuela is too poor ro make themselves heard - trough the internet or media.

I lived under socialism in Romania. Is better than this s..t capitalism.
everybody was hired by law.

I am more of a tribalist. Something like socialism but with as little work as possible, no "jobs"

Hmmm...each to his own.

reply to post by pai mei


I have to say that while I do not share your worldview at all (Im a capitalist-extremist), I respect your viewpoint because you clearly admit and state your view rather than hiding behind contrived theories. Good stuff

reply to post by Skyfloating


Thanks "Hired by law" - means no stress for survival. But here is a quote from Daniel Quinn I agree with, I am against work just to have something to do.
Work for the basics of survival (this means very little work with today's technology - if we function as a tribe), then do what you like. Work for more stuff, or relax, socialize, live, work on what you always wanted. A system to allow this must be created. Now - it's 8 hours a day, no matter what you want. My system would allow you to have 11 months a year free time. And have the basics - for all. No more people without food, clothes, shelter.
Also - it would allow freedom of movement, of whatever. Of joining societies of people interested in the same stuff and working on it. Not because you are "paid" but because you have free time and do what you like.

Karl Marx recognized that workers without a choice are workers in chains. But his idea of breaking chains was for us to depose the pharaohs and then build the pyramids for ourselves, as if building pyramids is something we just can't stop doing, we love it so much.

[edit on 11-9-2009 by pai mei]

alot of the groups that end up hurt by conspiracy theory driven propaganda are literally sold out by their own people. in other words, the top of the heap is USUALLY populated by people who are already morally bankrupt of things the rest of the populace expects from each other as a matter of civilized behavior.

as a result, while it may be jewish bankers, it's jewish bankers that have sold out their own heritage and people. their people suffer while they use their money to flee to safety. a christian president, who has sold out his own heritage and the religion of his people. his own people and he'll be long gone when the SHTF. a socialist leader who has sold out his own heritage and the religion of his people and he'll be in a bunker on the moon when the SHTF.

this is because the people who run nations and have the most power, can't, by virtue of their jobs, be morally ethical people. the nature of the job requires them to be dangerously immoral and they deem anyone who thinks otherwise as dangerously naive and stupid. this is the nature of things in the top eschelons of the world's most powerful people. had they been omniscient, most of that would be unnecessary, thusly why there will never be utopia on this planet until jesus is at the helm. anything less is just more of the same.

how anyone can think otherwise, is beyond me.

reply to post by pai mei


The marxist doctrine has it that workers did not actually get the job by their own free will and accord, but were somehow forced to work.

Ive travelled Russia, Poland, Romania, China and the squalor and depression seen as a result of marxist doctrines is horrific in my eyes and has little to do with the tribalist utopia you recommend.

But I dont want to argue with you. I think the world is big enough to feature both systems and those who prefer the one system can move to that country, without the necessity to impose their system on those who dont want it.

I encourage you to move to countries in which tribalism is practiced (Africa) or socialism is appreciated (Cuba). That takes care of the whole issue, right?

reply to post by Skyfloating


Where is tribalism in Africa ? Maybe a few tribes : the bushmen, and not even they. People in Africa say :look I am part of tribe X. But they do not live as a tribe anymore, just "third world poor people". Same way : native Americans will say "I am from this tribe". But they do not live as a tribe.

www.survival-international.org...

Living in a tribe - does not mean to get crazy, put on an animal skin, go in the woods and make fire with two sticks because "that's tradition". A tribe is not about that. It's about a social organization - that appears naturally for a group of free people.

In the fall of 1970, a magazine called La Raza, one of the countless local publications coming out of the movements of those years to supply information ignored in the regular media, told about the Pit River Indians of northern California. Sixty Pit Indians occupied land they said belonged to them; they defied the Forest Services when ordered to leave. One of them, Darryl B. Wilson, later recalled: "As the flames danced orange making the trees come to life, and the cold creeped out of the darkness to challenge the speaking fire, and our breath came in small clouds, we spoke." They asked the government by what treaty it claimed the land. It could point to none. They cited a federal statute (25 USCA 194) that where there was a land dispute between Indian and white "the burden of proof falls on the white man."

They had built a quonset hut, and the marshals told them it was ugly and ruined the landscape. Wilson wrote later:

The whole world is rotting. The water is poisoned, trie air polluted, the politics deformed, the land gutted, the forest pillaged, the shores ruined, the towns burned, the lives of the people destroyed . .. and the federals spent the best part of October trying to tell us the quonset hut was "ugly"!

To us it was beautiful. It was the beginning of our school. The meeting place. Home for our homeless. A sanctuary for those needing rest. Our church. Our headquarters. Our business office. Our symbol of approaching freedom. And it still stands.
It was also the center for the reviving of our stricken, diluted and separated culture. Our beginning. It was our sun rising on a clear spring day when the sky holds no clouds. It was a good and pure thing for our heart to look upon. That small place on earth. Our place.

But 150 marshals came, with machine guns, shotguns, rifles, pistols, riot sticks, Mace, dogs, chains, manacles. "The old people were frightened. The young questioned bravery. The small children were like a deer that has been shot by the thunder stick. Hearts beat fast as though a race was just run in the heat of summer." The marshals began swinging their riot sacks, and blood started flowing. Wilson grabbed one marshal's club, was thrown down, manacled, and while lying face down on the ground was struck behind the head several times. A sixtysix- year-old man was beaten into unconsciousness. A white reporter was arrested, his wife beaten. They were all thrown into trucks and taken away, charged with assaulting state and federal officers and cutting trees - but not with trespassing, which might have brought into question the ownership of the land.

www.scribd.com...

[edit on 11-9-2009 by pai mei]

reply to post by undo


So people in power are immoral by nature and there is nothing that can be done but wait til jesus returns?

Passivity does not sound like something Jesus might have taught

reply to post by pai mei


So could you find a community that lives by those ideals rather than demanding those who prefer capitalists to change their ways?

reply to post by Skyfloating


ngm.nationalgeographic.com...

A tribe on the inside, capitalism on the outside.
Capitalism and consumer society : www.storyofstuff.com...
Communism is no better at protecting the planet.

[edit on 11-9-2009 by pai mei]

reply to post by pai mei


I liked the national geographic article

I dont want to derail this thread on CTs into a capitalism vs. socialism debate. If you wish to debate the topic and open a thread, I promise I´ll come in and debate it.

reply to post by Skyfloating


Please refrain from putting words in my mouth or describing my intent.

Your embrace of the Bush administration makes your intention rather suspect to say the least.

Originally posted by OmegaPoint
reply to post by Skyfloating

 

Please refrain from putting words in my mouth or describing my intent.

You`re the one who implied Bush being behind world war II.

Myself, I associate Hitler and the Thule Society with being behind WWII.

I think your angle on WWII is questionable, but it might explain why you call Bush a murderer in another thread.

Originally posted by OmegaPoint
Your embrace of the Bush administration makes your intention rather suspect to say the least.

Relax.

Bush has an approx. 85% disapproval rating in mainstream society. Im just open-minded toward alternative ways of seeing things, thats all.

Another hit piece thread on conspiracy theorists eh skyfloating?

Originally posted by twitchy
Another hit piece thread on conspiracy theorists eh skyfloating?

Yeah, and the longer I stay here and get called a disinfo-agent, satanist, evil-conspirator etc. by these people, the more Im going to play with the notion of daring to disagree with the hive-mind consensus here.

_____________________________

OmegaPoint: I dont really care for Bush much, but I experiment with the notion that the mass-consensus about him might be wrong because of the fierce insanity with which he is bashed. When people get that angry and demagogic its a sign of having been brainwashed.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
You have the "evil" Freemasons to thank for the U.S. Constitution, which is one of the most reasonable and peaceful documents out there.

Ah, so you admit that the very first people responsible for America's original charter were Zionist affiliated?

I know you consider all this stuff black propaganda, but come on man, it's undeniable.

I don't think Freemasons are evil, in general. But if the U.S constitution is so reasonable and peaceful, then how do you explain the ongoing wars till this day? All that killing. I'd be willing to bet that at least 60% of all these people who die in the process are completely innocent.

But there's always an enemy. If it's not the Nazis; its the Russians, if not then the Koreans, if not then Iraqis, if not that then Afghanistan. And your OP is almost shouting out for a new war against Iran.

The fact that so many around here actively hate this decent group of people says everything about the mindset of some CTs.

Well I'm a CT. I never thought much of the Masons. After researching the issue a bit I came to the conclusion that its definitely not some massive overblown conspiracy, but there are definitely some fishy things. We'll leave it at that.

Go live in NKorea/Venezuela/Zimbabwe/Iran for a few months and you`ll better understand the other side of the argument.

Point taken, but I think I live in an oppressive enough country, thank you very much.

Best regards,

Originally posted by Majorion
Ah, so you admit that the very first people responsible for America's original charter were Zionist affiliated?

The Constitution is a pretty good document. Read it.

I don't think Freemasons are evil, in general. But if the U.S constitution is so reasonable and peaceful, then how do you explain the ongoing wars till this day? All that killing. I'd be willing to bet that at least 60% of all these people who die in the process are completely innocent.

I pretty much explained the cause of the most deaths in recent History in the OP

But there's always an enemy. If it's not the Nazis; its the Russians, if not then the Koreans, if not then Iraqis, if not that then Afghanistan. And your OP is almost shouting out for a new war against Iran.

Im a non-interventionist who believes that others should be left alone and not attacked...with the exception of self-defense.



[edit on 11-9-2009 by Skyfloating]

Originally posted by Skyfloating
reply to post by undo

 

So people in power are immoral by nature and there is nothing that can be done but wait til jesus returns?

I returned...

People are not immoral by nature.

The problem with capitalism is that it is fundamentally built of the exploitation of weaker individuals, it takes ACTIVE conscious morality (people deciding not do something they could do to make money).

The problem with capitalism and corporatism is that it makes money and power God.

If powerful individual people don't care they can destroy the environment, waste resources, and subjugate people better than under any other system.

Capitalism doesn't make people bad, and I would say that the system itself is not innately immoral, but it is simply structured in a way that rewards a lack of mercy for weaker people.

reply to post by Jezus


there's no moral difference between a system that gives all the money and power to a few people on a committee, who then dole it out to the populace based on THEIR PERSONAL PARADIGM, and a bunch of capitalists, who dole out the money from their reserves based on THEIR PERSONAL PARADIGM. when the smoke clears you still have a handful of very prosperous people who are holding sway over the masses of poor based on their decisions, either monetary or otherwise

at least in the capitalist version, the poor have a chance, however rigorous, to rise to the same level of success or stability. in the socialist model, it's almost like being branded for life, to be a slave to the system, whose lot in life will never change.

[edit on 11-9-2009 by undo]

Originally posted by Jezus

The problem with capitalism is that it is fundamentally built of the exploitation of weaker individuals

This type of reasoning causes a lot of suffering man. I hope they wont teach this to our children.

It is through my capitalist ventures that I have the resources and funds not only to support family and friends but also those in need.

And it is through capitalism that you sit in front of a computer right now.

Nothing whatsoever to do with exploitation of the weak.

Capitalism begins with an idea for a business that can generate money in order to

a) Expand
b) Employ people
c) Contribute to society

And thats how every bit of progress you see in this world came about.

If you want to know what the rejection of Business and Capital looks like, go browse pictures of Uganda.

Anti-capitalism itself is a conspiracy against progress.

[edit on 11-9-2009 by Skyfloating]