Sunset and Sunrise Crepuscular Rays on the MOON

reply to post by Libertygal

That implies some atmosphere doesn't it?

I would invite you to re-read the first link you referenced.

Not in any way does it imply, nor suggest, "some atmosphere" on the Lunar surface. Not in the way you seem to misunderstand.

The drop in atmospheric pressure will NOT cause your blood to boil, or your eyes to bug out (a'la the movie Total Recall). BUT, as every scuba diver knows, rapid decompressions can be injurious to the body, as in dissolved nitrogen accumulating as gas bubbles in your blood, at the joints (the Bends). ALSO, one first thing taught to every Scuba diver student...NEVER hold your breath.

Some controversy came up because of the scene in 2001: A Space Odyssey when astronaut Dave makes his emergency egress from the Pod into the airlock...although plausible to survive a few seconds, and remain conscious, the actor is shown hold his breath...very incorrect. For a film that tried so hard to get the scince right in everything else.

John Russell "Painted" this picture of the Moon in the 1700's

John Russell R.A. (1745-1806)

www.trevorphilip.com...


I consider this painting of the Moon more accurate than than what Nasa provide in 2009

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/e0202e51ed23.jpg[/atsimg]

reply to post by Somamech

I consider this painting of the Moon more accurate...

Surely you're not serious?

YOU consider a painting to be 'more accurate' than a photo???

Darn!! I'd sure have loved to have met Picasso's models? Maybe they were extraterrestrials from the Moon.....

reply to post by weedwhacker



Yes indeed I do

One persons lifetime of studying the Moon in "truth" is worth more than 40 years of the "Dichotomy of 'Overt Science' vs "Military Covert operation"

But hey in good spirit I can ask " Surely you don't believe those footprints" after all the science posted here about Electrostatic dust storms ?

Nasa defy's Logic which is the inherent Goal controlling Nasa

Originally posted by Phage
As has been pointed out, NASA (and others) have been talking about the lunar "atmosphere" for quite a while.

Yes I quite agree I have even showed NASA documents for some time...

The problem is that the skeptics have been pushing the words NO ATMOSPHERE so long the little people are not listening to the truth...

Besides many don't believe what NASA says...

So at least YOU agree there IS an atmosphere

The only point of contention then is HOW MUCH...



...but at least we are making progress

[edit on 8-9-2009 by zorgon]

reply to post by zorgon


I think it all MUST remain AS IS because of one of my favorite jokes...

Guy started a restaurant on the Moon, but it failed after only a few months.

Reason? Well, the food was good, but people complained it had no atmosphere.

Originally posted by weedwhacker
Surely you're not serious?
YOU consider a painting to be 'more accurate' than a photo???

Well Jim Oberg says that the sketches of the Sunset/Sunrise rays taken by the Apollo Astronauts are better than the photos (which we still don't have) because he says the human eye can get a better grasp than the camera...

So it makes sense to me...

And if you look at the old archaeology books before they had cameras they meticulously drew everything in fine detail

So yeah he is serious...

Here is another piece of Art...



Notice how big the sun is in the helmet? And the two angles of the shadows?

Seems the sun really does look bigger on the Moon



And who is this third guy?

Originally posted by weedwhacker
Guy started a restaurant on the Moon, but it failed after only a few months.

Oh yeah that guy... well we talked to Barron Hilton about that one... you know, the Lunar Hilton?...

Anyway the problem was that he didn't listen to John see... John told him you can only breathe without a helmet for a short time. He just didn't pay attention...

The new Cosmic Bistro is awesome though... I hear they just got a fresh supply of Martian Truffles




Lunar Hilton and Orbital Hilton, Luna

Phase One: 3 Story 100 Room Underground - Began 1967 with Press release
Phase Two: 5,000 Rom Luxury Hotel under Glass Dome
Drawings Complete March 1998 Peter Inston
Initial Investment for Phase Two: 300,000.00
Capacity in Final Phase: 5000 Beds
Support: A school, a hospital and a multi denominational church
Features: Sand beaches on artificial moon lakes, hotel internal water Recycling system
Final Phase Completion: 2050
Class: Luxury Hotel - Lunar Hilton Hotel
Price: Special offer for one week: $25,000 Euro (Transportation Extra)

"Chairman of the US company Hilton Hotels, Barron Hilton (not Baron Hilton) at a space conference in 1967. The optimistic "Can do" spirit that existed in the US space industry in those days during the build-up to Apollo 11 is particularly notable. That discussion continued in the press for a few years, with senior NASA figures making speeches about the possibility of ordinary people being able to buy trips to space. But it faded away as the space shuttle project was begun and almost everyone waited, relying on that to reduce launch costs. The speech is made more notable by the announcement early in 1998 by Hilton International (a British company) of their plans for a "Lunar Hilton" - using water from the "polar ice" to make an artificial beach. " - Press Conference 1967

www.thelivingmoon.com...

German Article...
www.heise.de...

"Entrance to the Lunar Hilton will be on the surface of the moon, but most of the Hilton will be situated beneath the surface - say 20 to 30 feet - to establish constant temperature controls and a more workable hotel area. The experiments of [4] Surveyor Three seem to indicate that excavations on the moon are possible and that the moon soil might be used for construction. The Hilton will have three levels. At the bottom mechanical equipment will be housed. The center level will consist of two 400 foot guest corridors crossing in the middle core. These corridors will contain 100 guest rooms. The top level will be used for public space. Off the dining room we will place necessary machines and storage areas. To start with we will have only three floors, which will eliminate elevators and minimize power requirements. The multi-storied underground hotel will come later. But - and this is very important - in almost every respect the Lunar Hilton will be physically like an earth Hilton."
- Barron Hilton, 1967, "Hotels in Space", Based on Preprint AAS 67-126, 1967 AAS Conference Proceedings.

www.spacefuture.com...

First on the Moon for Hilton

"A beach holiday is all very well but where better to top up a stellar suntan than the Lunar Hilton? Soaking up the rays under an Earth lit sky may sound like something out of sci-fi, but plans to open the first luxury hotel on the Moon are already well underway. Top British designer Peter Inston (Inston Design International, 33, Cork Street, London W1X 1HB) has been chosen to design the new building, which will include a vast rotunda containing 5000 guest rooms and a central "activity" dome bigger than the controversial Millennium Dome in Greenwich in London. The Lunar Hilton project has gained momentum recently due to the possibility that there are vast ice reservoirs in lunar craters. Ice means plentiful supplies of water and oxygen. Lots of people would love to go on holiday to the Moon, especially if they could stay in luxurious surroundings," says Mr. Inston, who has designed hotels all over the world including the Intercontinental hotel lit Istanbul and the new Hilton hotel in St. Lucia in the Caribbean. "Lunar tourism is going to take off in a big way. I am particularly pleased to be working with the Hilton on this ground-breaking project."

www.resonancepub.com...

John Lear at the Flying M Ranch 1966



John at the guest house. He was Barron's pilot during the Hotel on Luna meetings


You should have applied for a shuttle jockey... then you would know what is going on on Farside rather than waste your time here debunking that which cannot BE debunked

Originally posted by MOTT the HOOPLE
So John Lear was right! The moon does have an atmosphere "Awesome!"

Yes -- John Lear, NASA and mainstream astronomers were all right. The Moon has a thin atmosphere.

The Moon has been known by NASA and other scientists to have an atmosphere for several decades now. They never tried to hide this and it's not a secret. They suspected it had an atmosphere before Apollo, and they confirmed it with Apollo.

The atmosphere is caused by outgassing, the solar wind, micrometeorites, and electrostatic effects of the moon dust

reply to post by zorgon


Just in case anyone is interested, I want to mention that the three paintings in your post was made by Apollo 12 astronaut Alan Bean. The first painting shows Neil Armstrong.
www.alanbeangallery.com...

The second painting, where it "Seems the sun really does look bigger on the Moon", shows the Apollo 14 Lunar Module. This is what Alan Bean says about the painting and the Sun in it:

I painted the view to the east past the Apollo 14 lunar module Antares shortly after Alan Shepard and Ed Mitchell began their trek toward Cone Crater. The Sun is just peeking over the top of their spaceship, making it difficult, even painful, to look that way. It's the same Sun we see here on Earth, but it appears much brighter because there is no atmosphere on the Moon to partially screen its brilliant rays. Cone Crater sits on top of the high ground that's in the distance beyond the flag, and Al and Ed are walking into the Sun as they move along. Even with their gold visors in place, the glare makes it difficult for them to navigate.

www.alanbeangallery.com...


The third painting is called "The Fantasy", and shows Pete Conrad, Dick Gordon and Alan Bean together on the moon:

During training, Pete and I frequently practiced our lunar surface activities such as emplacing experiments, gathering rock samples, or making observations. We were excited. We were going to have the ultimative adventure someone in our profession could experience. But while we did, Dick Gordon would be orbiting 60 miles above us. We often fantasized Dick joining us on the Moon for all the fun, but we could never really find a way. But now I'm an artist and in my paintings I can have it my way. Now, at last, our best friend has come the last 60 miles.

www.alanbeangallery.com...

Visit Alan Bean Gallery to see more great paintings of the Apollo missions:
www.alanbeangallery.com...

Originally posted by Soylent Green Is People

Originally posted by MOTT the HOOPLE
So John Lear was right! The moon does have an atmosphere "Awesome!"

Yes -- John Lear, NASA and mainstream astronomers were all right. The Moon has a thin atmosphere.

The Moon has been known by NASA and other scientists to have an atmosphere for several decades now. They never tried to hide this and it's not a secret. They suspected it had an atmosphere before Apollo, and they confirmed it with Apollo.

The atmosphere is caused by outgassing, the solar wind, micrometeorites, and electrostatic effects of the moon dust

Well that would be nice and all but explaining that to every person that was 'brainwashed' by the 40th anniversary of the moon landing this year would be like pushing # uphill

The "General Public" think that the Moon is a wasteland at best and not worth exploring... Now WHO is to blame for that social construct ?

In saying so I figured out a good way to keep turd defying gravity LOL FACTS

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by Phage
As has been pointed out, NASA (and others) have been talking about the lunar "atmosphere" for quite a while.

Yes I quite agree

I have even showed NASA documents for some time...

The problem is that the skeptics have been pushing the words NO ATMOSPHERE so long the little people are not listening to the truth...

Besides many don't believe what NASA says...

So at least YOU agree there IS an atmosphere

The only point of contention then is HOW MUCH...

...but at least we are making progress

[edit on 8-9-2009 by zorgon]

I have never seen a knowledgeable person say the moon has no atmosphere, full stop, without context. That context being usual replying to an idiot claiming the Moon has a breathable atmosphere or some such nonsense.

reply to post by Esoterica


Where in the hell do you guys find all these people that know the Moon has an Atmos ?

I am glad its known but who knows that ?

Originally posted by Somamech
reply to post by Esoterica

 

Where in the hell do you guys find all these people that know the Moon has an Atmos ?

I am glad its known but who knows that ?

Huh? I don't understand your question.

Originally posted by Esoterica

Originally posted by Somamech
reply to post by Esoterica

 

Where in the hell do you guys find all these people that know the Moon has an Atmos ?

I am glad its known but who knows that ?

Huh? I don't understand your question.

I asked; Where do you know all these people that consider it common knowledge that the Moon has an atmosphere?

My apologies if I worded that wrong in my first reply

"Atmosphere", as in a tenuous collection of gases and such around the moon, would be known to anyone that did a bit of research.

"Atmosphere", in the sense of a dense collection of gases such as that around Earth, is a fiction spread by a number of conspiracy theorists and is 99% of what is meant when someone on ATS says "The Moon has an atmosphere."

That's why I said "knowledgeable people." I'm sure there are plenty of people that don't know what they're talking about that way the moon has no atmosphere. But proving them wrong isn't really a victory.

reply to post by zorgon

Drawings and paintings are still used when the representation of something to subtle to appear on a photo must be represented or to enhance some parts that are most important, so a professionally made drawing or painting may be as accurate as a photo and show more than one photo of the same subject could show, although today we can use things like High Dynamic Range to make photos that were impossible to do before the digital era.

But I don't understand what you mean by "two angles of the shadows".

reply to post by ArMaP


zorgon's "two angles of shadows"?

Yeah...not his best complaint, especially since it IS a painting, and there's this thing known as 'artistic license'...but, let's point out his own photo, which clearly ALSO shows "multiple" angles of shadows...ALL from one light source, too!!!



OK...solved that one. Next?

reply to post by Esoterica


So does every known interaction that we know on Earth also occur as the NORM outside of Earth knowing that NASA is a Propaganda Machine ?

Originally posted by Somamech
reply to post by Esoterica

 

Where in the hell do you guys find all these people that know the Moon has an Atmos ?

I am glad its known but who knows that ?

It is common knowledge among scientists that the Moon has a very thin atmosphere. The issue here is that some people posting on this thread seem to be implying that NASA was somehow hiding this information from the public...

...however, NASA was not hiding this information from the public. It has been publicly available knowledge for decades that the Moon has an atmosphere. Perhaps the "common person" didn't know this scientific fact, but that's not NASA's fault. People could have learned about the Moon's atmosphere by doing a little simple research.