Sunset and Sunrise Crepuscular Rays on the MOON

reply to post by zorgon

That isn't a sodium laser.

The sodium atoms detected by Wilson come from the surface of the moon, a product of "space weathering".

The total rate of sodium ejection from the surface for speeds >2.0 kms is comparable to estimates from previous lunar eclipse observations and earlier images of the lunar sodium tail.

sirius.bu.edu...

They are continuously pushed off into space by solar radiation and constantly replenished. Sort of like the tail of a comet.

Cool stuff. Thanks for that one.

Originally posted by Phage
That isn't a sodium laser.

So the Air Force LIED to me?

Starfield Optical Range - sodium laser

Starfire Optical Range Sodium Guidestar

Air Force Research Laboratory, Directed Energy Directorate?s scientists and engineers at the Diectorate?s Starfire Optical Range use the sodium guidestar for real-time, high-fidelity tracking and imaging of satellites too faint for conventional adaptive optical imaging systems. This is a break-through technology developed in house and provides the operational Air Force with valuable space situational awareness capability. The Starfire Optical Range is a vital resource in achieving the Air Force?s mission to operate freely in space. U.S. Air Force photo

www.kirtland.af.mil...

Oh well I guess you just can't trust those darn official sources these days



[edit on 4-9-2009 by zorgon]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/b1030055311b.jpg[/atsimg]

its now generally accepted that some of the lighter microscopic dust particles pick up sufficient electrostatic charge from the solar wind to repel away from the surface to heights as high as orbiting spacecraft.

Neutral Solar Wind Generated by Lunar Exospheric Dust at the Terminator

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/56ec6a97b513.jpg[/atsimg]

Source= lunarnetworks.blogspot.com...

reply to post by zorgon

Like your quote says it is actually two lasers of infrared wavelengths (both invisible). They are solid state lasers. A true sodium laser is a gas laser. The sodium guidestar is produced when the laser excites sodium atoms in the upper atmosphere.

Haven't we been through this before?

Originally posted by Phage

Haven't we been through this before?

Semantical Arguments.

I am sure you have.

reply to post by zorgon

Will that give us that 'saffron' sky that NASA is blacking out?

??? Oh, you're pulling our legs!.....right?

And is it good to breathe?

Oh, NOES!!! Firstly, how DENSE would this alleged "sodium atmosphere" have to be to present a substantial enough amount to actually refract sunlight and produce a "Saffron Sky"?? Hmmm???

Second...what creatures are you aware of that 'breathe' an atmosphere made up of sodium gas?

It's fun to play these games, but children may be watching, and getting very poor science ideas here.....

Originally posted by weedwhacker
Oh, NOES!!! Firstly, how DENSE would this alleged "sodium atmosphere" have to be to present a substantial enough amount to actually refract sunlight and produce a "Saffron Sky"?? Hmmm???

Don't know... here on Earth the the blue color of the sky is caused by Rayleigh scattering not refraction... I wrote a scientist to ask what color the sky on Mars should be according to the mostly CO2 atmoasphere and he says most definately black Saved THAT email So much for "NASA ask a physicist"

How thin can the air on Earth get before it looks black?

Second...what creatures are you aware of that 'breathe' an atmosphere made up of sodium gas?

Probably those moon critters Norm spoke about Unless they really ARE Plasma critters... but science has found plasma has some peculiar behavior in a sodium vapor environment. Definitely more homework for the puppy

It's fun to play these games, but children may be watching, and getting very poor science ideas here.....

The 'children' are already making the threads you enjoy so much. Can't hurt them to learn some cool stuff... like plasma critters living in a sodium vapor environment

Problem is its hard to separate the material because sodium/plasma interactions are also body chemistry as blood plasma, used in laser energy and spectography and those nice saffron street lamps are sodium plasma lamps first invented by Nikola Tesla in 1894..

So it will take a while

So maybe you could be a good chap and ask a scientist how dense it would need to be to appear saffron

reply to post by zorgon

It looks like that effect is produced by the photo being taken through Earth's atmosphere, but as you made a post that it's not even a one line post, it's hard to tell.

reply to post by ArMaP


You are right, the photo of the "blue moon" was taken in 2003 by Tom King in Texas:

"I had never paid any real attention to the term 'Blue Moon' until one October evening in 2003," he recalls. "I had my telescope set up in the backyard and the moon began rising in the east with a strange blue tint I had not seen before."
The cause of the blue was probably tiny droplets of water in the air. "The air was damp and heavy with moisture," notes King. When water droplets are about 1 micron (one millionth of a meter) in diameter, they strongly scatter red and green light while allowing other colors to pass. A white moonbeam passing through such a misty cloud turns blue.

Clouds of ice crystals, fine-grained sand, volcanic ash or smoke from forest fires can have the same effect. "The key," notes atmospheric optics expert Les Cowley, "is that the airborne particles should all be of very similar size, a micron or so in diameter." Only then do they scatter the correct wavelengths of moonlight and act as a blue filter.

There are other reasons for blue Moons, he notes. "Our eyes have automatic 'white balances' just like digital cameras. Go outdoors from a cozy cabin lit by an oil lamp (yellow light) and the Moon will appear blue until your eyes adjust."

science.nasa.gov...

reply to post by ArMaP


I'm sure Zorgon is fully aware of the provenance of the photo.

He does like to play his little games and his fellow members for suckers.

[edit on 9/5/2009 by Phage]

Zorgon, Knights, take this S&F!

Really impressive your arguments and this thread, so the others like Phage & ArMap (star) !

[edit on 5-9-2009 by Imagir]

[edit on 5-9-2009 by Imagir]

reply to post by zorgon

How thin can the air on Earth get before it looks black?

Ah. More games. "Playing" dumb?

YOU posted that nice U-2 video. High altitude flight. Over Earth. Sky got dark. Almost black. Not quite, though. Still need SOME air for engines and wings, eh?

Remember?
_______________________________________
editing for further juicy information (for the kids...)

The "Edge of Space"!

Atmospheric gases scatter blue wavelengths of visible light more than other wavelengths, giving the Earth’s visible edge a blue halo. At higher and higher altitudes, the atmosphere becomes so thin that it essentially ceases to exist. Gradually, the atmospheric halo fades into the blackness of space.

The Kármán line lies at an altitude of 100 km (62.1 miles) above the Earth's sea level, and is commonly used to define the boundary between the Earth's atmosphere and outer space.[2] This definition is accepted by the Fédération Aéronautique Internationale (FAI), which is an international standard setting and record-keeping body for aeronautics and astronautics.

The line was named after Theodore von Kármán, a Hungarian-American engineer and physicist who was active primarily in the fields of aeronautics and astronautics. He first calculated that around this altitude the Earth's atmosphere becomes too thin for aeronautical purposes (because any vehicle at this altitude would have to travel faster than orbital velocity in order to derive sufficient aerodynamic lift from the atmosphere to support itself). Also, there is an abrupt increase in atmospheric temperature and interaction with solar radiation.

NOW...let's see if we can discover what colour a sufficiently dense atmosphere of mostly sodium would be as it scatters our Sun's light.

Of course, everyone knows that Earth's atmosphere is primarily Nitrogen. What color is Nitrogen gas? Why, it's clear isn't it? SO, the fact that certain wavelengths of the light emitted by our average Yellow Star are scattered by the mix of our particular gases end up favouring the blue part of the spectrum? Of course, we already know how dense our atmosphere is.

Let's continue: We've established, from zorgon, that the scant atmosphere of Mars, mostly CO2, would result in a BLACK sky. Yes? It certainly is well understood that the atmospheric pressure on Mars is FAR greater than whatever you'd wish to call the "atmosphere" on the Moon. (Not sure if it evens qualifies as 'atmosphere' at all...need definintions.)

SO...given those facts, any trace amounts of sodium near the Moon would be invisible in the Human eye, yes?? And, certainly NOT breathable by any standard that is understood as "breathing"...unless you wish to consider a few molecules per cubic....what? Cm? Decimeter? Either way, still closer to vacuum than 'atmosphere', one would tend to think.....

[edit on 5 September 2009 by weedwhacker]

reply to post by zorgon


Nice picture Zorgon

Remember these ones?

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/a3b4ceee38af.jpg[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/3e675b871a56.jpg[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/028255a4377b.jpg[/atsimg]


Have you ever read Ingo Swann's Penetration? He talks about how people are forced to draw their conclusions about the Moon from the available information. The key is to control which information becomes available and to also control which information is recognized by 'official sources'.

Ingo put it all quite well. Do you want me to send you the pages on which he talks about this?




[edit on 5-9-2009 by Exuberant1]

reply to post by Exuberant1

Those photos have a strange format, does the rest of the photos show the rest of the Moon?

And some references to the source would be fine.

reply to post by Exuberant1


Well, you see...that's kinda what happens when a photo of a bright object is overexposed.

Overexposed Photo of Moon

Yeah, that image I found is taken from here on Earth, obviously. BUT, whether it's a bad image taken from space with a Hasselblad, or taken from the ground here with a cheaper camera, if it's overexposed, it's junk.

NOT an "atmosphere"!

Maybe I can find other examples...surely there are overexposed pictures of bright spotlights, with their own little "atmospheres" too!

Originally posted by ArMaP
reply to post by Exuberant1

 

Those photos have a strange format, does the rest of the photos show the rest of the Moon?

Yes.

I'll find the image numbers later. They are from an Apollo mission.

It would be nice if the image names didn't change to some random number whenever you upload them. It would be nice.

[edit on 5-9-2009 by Exuberant1]

Originally posted by weedwhacker
YOU posted that nice U-2 video. High altitude flight. Over Earth. Sky got dark. Almost black. Not quite, though. Still need SOME air for engines and wings, eh?

Remember?

Oh yes I do recall that... pretty kewl eh? You could even see the STARS in that video

Originally posted by Exuberant1
Remember these ones?

files.abovetopsecret.com...
files.abovetopsecret.com...
files.abovetopsecret.com...

I remember those. I also remember asking you for a link to the originals a number of months ago in some other thread.

Those photos were more than likely taken from inside the Command Module through one of its windows. To me it looks like we're seeing an internal reflection from those windows. Plus the Moon does look a bit overexposed like weedwhacker pointed out.

But, if you could find the image numbers, that would be nice.