God Commands You To Kill Gays

Originally posted by JaxonRoberts
reply to post by EMPIRE

 

I have, but I guess I just need to simplify it for you:

I don't know why you're shouting, maybe because I'm pointing out the obvious, but if it suits you continue to use your mighty shouting words. You can't even simplify things for yourself, so how do you think you can simplify for others?

THE OLD TESTAMENT IS NOT TRUE!

This is your opinion, you have the right to hold such an opinion.

IT CANNOT AND SHOULD NOT BE TAKEN LITERALLY!

See above.

IT IS THE WRITINGS OF AN ANCIENT NOMADIC TRIBE WITH ZERO UNDERSTANDING OF SCIENCE AND WERE TRYING TO EXPLAIN THEIR ORIGIN.

Follow my previous instructions.

THE FIRST FIVE BOOKS WERE WRITTEN BY MOSES OVER THREE THOUSAND YEARS AFTER ADAM AND EVE WERE SUPPOSED TO HAVE LIVED

You claim the OT is not true, yet you admit the Pentateuch was written by a guy named Moses, who is actually a central figure in the OT. Friend, this is highly illogical, you may say it's highly illogical to believe in talking snakes, 1,000 year days, etc but your basically the pot calling the kettle black.

However, I'll allow you to save face and clarify yourself. Is the OT not true or is some of the content in it not true? If it is some of the content I'd like you to tell me which content is true. If it is the entire OT, you need to explain to not only me, but also to yourself, how a guy who may or may not have existed wrote those books.

AND MOSES WAS NOT EVEN RAISED A JEW!

According to you the OT is not true, so how do we even know a guy named Moses truly wrote the Pentateuch? Moreover, what does being raised a jew have to do with anything?

AND IF ADAM LIVED 900 YEARS, WE ARE DE-EVOLVING!

And this is what many Christians have been saying. In fact, they use the Bible and passages about YHWH decreasing mans lifespan to support this.

There, simple enough for you? Hope that helps. I really hate to do things like that, but you left me no choice. By the way, show me just one instance where I 'flip-flopped' anywhere in this thread! Good luck, you'll need it!

Friend, you've not only flip flopped but you've flipped your top. You're too emotionally attached to this topic, so I suggest you take a break from it. No need to get your blood pressure all riled up, just take a deep breath and relax. How have you flip flopped? Do you understand that in this thread, your entire premise has been structured around False Dilemmas and Composition, that you say you look at things contextually but disregard them when things don't go your way?

[edit on 31-8-2009 by EMPIRE]

reply to post by EMPIRE


Heated? I giggled my butt off the entire time I wrote that post! It was in caps so that you could understand it, as you seem to miss my point each and every time. As for flip-flopping, I have yet to do so. Since you seem unable to point out where I have previously, I will assume that you are just making an Ad Hominem argument.

I firmly believe that the only use for the Bible other than an example of ancient literature (and mostly fiction), is as a paperweight. It is an example of an outdated religious belief system with the same validity as the Greek, Nordic and Roman Pantheons. The 'God' of the Old Testament is about as real as Zeus, Jupiter or Odin. Thus, His 'commands' are irrelevant.

The Divine Being I know would never endorse such a thing as killing anyone, for any reason other than self-defense. The Divine Being I have come to know wishs for us to rise to a higher plane of thinking, not sink into the superstitions of the past. The Divine Being I believe in does make us pay for bad Karma (not sin, that's your concept), but in the end, welcomes ALL his children home, like any good parent would!

Originally posted by Silenceisall
reply to post by HunkaHunka

 

He probably is a homosexual, but has transferred his desire for men into a hate and fear.

Yes good point, that is what was rumoured to have happened with St Paul.

reply to post by Stylez


Read the links I presented. It was not statistics taken by law enforcement, but researchers looking into the subject. They were compiled by speaking to incarcerated pedophiles, so yes, the question was asked.

Originally posted by JaxonRoberts


The Divine Being I know would never endorse such a thing as killing anyone, for any reason other than self-defense. The Divine Being I have come to know wishs for us to rise to a higher plane of thinking, not sink into the superstitions of the past. The Divine Being I believe in does make us pay for bad Karma (not sin, that's your concept), but in the end, welcomes ALL his children home, like any good parent would!

Just who is the devine being you know? It seems you have had words with said being and are subject to the same ridicule many atheist's call the "flying spaghetti" monster. What is your stable datum, your referance of this beings truth that you have gathered such a similar moral compass.

Karma is said to be that which goes around, comes around and back to us ten fold. Am I right about that off the cuff definition?

Originally posted by JaxonRoberts
reply to post by EMPIRE

 

Heated? I giggled my butt off the entire time I wrote that post! It was in caps so that you could understand it, as you seem to miss my point each and every time.

Yes, you seem upset and still do, and it is your opinion I missed your point. If you'd like, I can tell you exactly what your premise is, but I'm afraid that doing so will actually prove that you're wrong about me missing your point.

As for flip-flopping, I have yet to do so. Since you seem unable to point out where I have previously, I will assume that you are just making an Ad Hominem argument.

No, I've shown how you've flipped flopped, but you simply choose not to accept the truth. No one is making Ad Hominem arguments, as I have said nothing about you that would make your claim false. This is a requirement of an Ad Hominem, so I suggest you stop using words and phrases out of context.

I firmly believe that the only use for the Bible other than an example of ancient literature (and mostly fiction), is as a paperweight. It is an example of an outdated religious belief system with the same validity as the Greek, Nordic and Roman Pantheons. The 'God' of the Old Testament is about as real as Zeus, Jupiter or Odin. Thus, His 'commands' are irrelevant.

What you believe does not matter, and instead of wasting your time typing red-herrings, why don’t you go ahead and address the questions that were derived from your very own words?

Is the OT not true or is some of the content in it not true? If it is some of the content I'd like you to tell me which content is true. If it is the entire OT, you need to explain to not only me, but also to yourself, how a guy who may or may not have existed wrote those books.

According to you the OT is not true, so how do we even know a guy named Moses truly wrote the Pentateuch? Moreover, what does being raised a jew have to do with anything?

The Divine Being I know would never endorse such a thing as killing anyone, for any reason other than self-defense. The Divine Being I have come to know wishs for us to rise to a higher plane of thinking, not sink into the superstitions of the past. The Divine Being I believe in does make us pay for bad Karma (not sin, that's your concept), but in the end, welcomes ALL his children home, like any good parent would!

Who is this divine being? Is he the Now & Later God? Is he AKMAKAHEE HEE HAA HA? Is he Zeus, Odin, Jupiter RA/RE or any other “god?” And who said sin was my concept, I’m telling you what some Christians may or may not believe, not what I believe.

In closing, stop making claims if you lack the ability to articulate your claims in a logical fashion. Moreover, cease making claims if you can’t answer questions that result from the initial claims made.


[edit on 31-8-2009 by EMPIRE]

reply to post by Stylez


I practice trancendental meditation, and have the gift of clairsentience. If you open yourself up to the Divine, It will speak to you. It will fill you with positive energy and answer your questions (at least most of them. Some things we are not meant to know while on this plane of existance). When added to the ability to receive messages from those who have crossed over, it is quite enlightning.

You were close with the concept of Karma, but it's threefold, not ten. And sometimes it must be worked off before fully crossing over to the next dimension of existance.

reply to post by EMPIRE


While some of the characters in the OT may have been actual living people, I would be hard pressed to tell you which ones. I do accept that Moses probably did exist, and was the author of the first five books, I wouldn't bet the farm on it. My reference to it was due to the beliefs of Judaism, which is the ultimate authority on the OT, as it is their book.

Edit to add: The question is not who, but what is the Divine. And that is something our simple human minds cannot truly understand. It would be the equivelant of asking an electron what we are.

[edit on 1-9-2009 by JaxonRoberts]

Originally posted by JaxonRoberts
reply to post by Stylez

 

Read the links I presented. It was not statistics taken by law enforcement, but researchers looking into the subject. They were compiled by speaking to incarcerated pedophiles, so yes, the question was asked.

Yet they still didn't make that distinction either? Not very accurate research then is it. You see what happens when you merge the meanings of two differen't crimes into one? You prove my point again because when you say they were speaking to "pedophiles" what does that tell you about their sexuality? Were they straight or homosexual?

Why didn't the research include the statistics of law enforcement? It is a crime afterall? Doesn't sound like you are taking this very serious if you are just accepting it as it is under such ambiguously stated research.

Originally posted by JaxonRoberts
reply to post by Stylez

 

I practice trancendental meditation, and have the gift of clairsentience. If you open yourself up to the Divine, It will speak to you. It will fill you with positive energy and answer your questions (at least most of them. Some things we are not meant to know while on this plane of existance). When added to the ability to receive messages from those who have crossed over, it is quite enlightning.

You were close with the concept of Karma, but it's threefold, not ten. And sometimes it must be worked off before fully crossing over to the next dimension of existance.

clairsentience, mmmm so how does your divine being prove himself to be who he says he is? Do you not question the veracity of the voice?

Originally posted by Stylez

Which is the reason I suggested he visit the other sides websites to get a look at how the other side thinks

Sides to a story are not the same as the sides you appear to see.

Never said they wouldn't but straights don't do it to gain political clout and one read of the gay lobby you will know what I am talking about so quit thinking you do and I don't

Why would a heterosexual feel the need to gain political clout ? It is the social majority and social norm.
I do not need to read gay lobbies. I have a varied selection of friends, some of whom have "alternate" lifestyles.
Sorry you feel threatened by my opinion.

That they do and ofetn they question it by "experimenting with it at the behest of some gay member of glesn teaching homosexual sex 101 at the public schools. Like I said, I know what gay is and I know what they do and what they are about and I am not for it and will be against it at the voting booth most of the time.

Yes indeed, the vocal minority are like any other fanatics, capable of giving all a bad reputation.
Since I don't own a tinfoil hat, I can't comment on most of this.

Really? you ever check the ratios between Pedophila by straights and Pedastry by gays? It would amaze you the likelyhood of a homosexual having the svelt firm body of a younger male just about to reach puberty while his hormones are going nuts. That kinda thing gays want NO part of LOL

People never cease to amaze me. Though I will say, dazzle me with data, you know? Proof.

Oh and include the god- fearing catholic priests would ya.

How nice for you, I think Brad Pit is a beautiful man too but it doesn't make me feel gay saying it so whats your point?

My point ? simply illustrating the diversity of possible feelings within one person.
Sadly irrational hatred usually dominates. It is laughably sad that people can't just accept difference and go about their lives. It would be so much easier on us all.

Originally posted by Stylez

Originally posted by Gun Totin Gerbil
It was not really fair , on the new colony . I know all the new migrants are painted as being pioneers and seekers of freedom and a new life . But they weren't all like that . There was a lot of unwanted scurrilous types , religious undesirable that were sent to new england . You ended up with a lot of folk that were not really wanted anymore for their odd and extreme beliefs . And some of that must permeate through to todays right wing christians . But somebody had to have them .

What is ones idea of an extremist or fundamentalist may just be anothers idea of luke warm Christianity. I see the same distinctions and similiarities of fanaticism and fundamentalism in many of the atheist's, truthers, and debunkers here as I do in fred phelps. Wouldn't you agree?

i can find many youtubed videos displaying acts of outright violence, hatred and bigotry of either one of those groups but it would be rather untrue for me to claim they are ALL like that. I realize in some cases the stereotype fits but usually that is where it ends.

I don't hear many jokes about Christians where the punchline is killing another homosexual and albeit true, mathew shepards death was the inspiration for many gays to accuse such ideologies as the reason for his death. he was killed by a meth addict who was a former sexual partner of his and was angry about not being fronted more meth from his dealer who was none other than, Matthew Shepard.

I believe the op owes an apology for the attempt to blanket the entire concept of religion in his statment about what Christian hate speech causes but I won't hold my breath.

Originally posted by EMPIRE


Who is this divine being? Is he the Now & Later God? Is he AKMAKAHEE HEE HAA HA? Is he Zeus, Odin, Jupiter RA/RE or any other “god?” And who said sin was my concept, I’m telling you what some Christians may or may not believe, not what I believe.

In closing, stop making claims if you lack the ability to articulate your claims in a logical fashion. Moreover, cease making claims if you can’t answer questions that result from the initial claims made.


[edit on 31-8-2009 by EMPIRE]

You realize your discussion with him is getting nowehere and as for it ever getting anywhere,, well, I think that's a wash also. If we could persuade people into Christianity their would be typical salesman selling it for a commission but it's pretty hard to sell something intangible and most sales man don't keep knocking at the door once it is slammed in their face.

I think you had that door slammed shut the moment he said what he did about the Bible. If that wasn't enough, you said it doesn't matter what he thinks. C'mon man, if you are like most of us, the moment someone tells us what we think isn't as important as what that person is telling us to think is the moment no one will give a rats ass what you say..

After that, it isn't about proving God is right, it becomes proving YOU are and that is never right when it exascerbates the situation objective. You had him yelling and even rubbed that in his face, what are you trying to do ? Wash your hands of this one, if the lord wants him and I think he does else he wouldn't have crossed our path online, then let the lord do the persuading, let the holy spirit possess your tongue and their will be another Christian as a link in the chain that it may take to have Jax see on his own that perhaps he is mistaken on many things. He isn't as unreasonable as he appears.

Just my opinion given as respectfully as I can. I know their are some out there your words are speaking to and that they are right for those who agree but most of them are most likely already where you are.

Warm Regards, you made a lot of great posts tonight and I'm prayng you'll make even better ones tommorrow

- Sty

Originally posted by EdCase512

Sides to a story are not the same as the sides you appear to see.

You want to share it with us? I'd like to know what it is you think I see?

Never said they wouldn't but straights don't do it to gain political clout and one read of the gay lobby you will know what I am talking about so quit thinking you do and I don't

Why would a heterosexual feel the need to gain political clout ? It is the social majority and social norm.

I wasn't quoting my opinion I was quoting what gays have said and if that is threatened by your opinion I wouldn't know, they never mentioned you.

Yes indeed, the vocal minority are like any other fanatics, capable of giving all a bad reputation.
Since I don't own a tinfoil hat, I can't comment on most of this.

Oh you have said a mouthfull already and I think what you are doing is looking for a fight saying a lot of defensive things that have nothing to do with anything I have said about you. Most of what I know you just said in the last post or two

Oh and include the god- fearing catholic priests would ya.

Ironically those pedohile priest's are gay too and gay first

People never cease to amaze me. Though I will say, dazzle me with data, you know? Proof.

Not going to waste my time, you've convinced me I'm all wrong and most likely so would my proof be if i were to give it.

My point ? simply illustrating the diversity of possible feelings within one person.
Sadly irrational hatred usually dominates. It is laughably sad that people can't just accept difference and go about their lives. It would be so much easier on us all.
?

Well easier on who? Gays? Ya know, most of the things I see gays complain about, they bring on themselves. Not all, but Most.

I love how these people who call themselves Christians, just take out little titbits from the bible, and twist them to suit whatever they are doing. When it suits them, some things said in the Bible are meant in a 'metaphoric' way, and other times it isn't. Wish they would just make up their minds already. These people scare me, you never know what they are accually capeable of. Well, this shows you.

Last summer, there was a guy standing in the road yelling with a big sighn that read 'REPENT OR BURN IN HELL' in bold red letters. Man, that really freaked me out!

Originally posted by Stylez

Originally posted by Gun Totin Gerbil
It was not really fair , on the new colony . I know all the new migrants are painted as being pioneers and seekers of freedom and a new life . But they weren't all like that . There was a lot of unwanted scurrilous types , religious undesirable that were sent to new england . You ended up with a lot of folk that were not really wanted anymore for their odd and extreme beliefs . And some of that must permeate through to todays right wing christians . But somebody had to have them .

What is ones idea of an extremist or fundamentalist may just be anothers idea of luke warm Christianity. I see the same distinctions and similiarities of fanaticism and fundamentalism in many of the atheist's, truthers, and debunkers here as I do in fred phelps. Wouldn't you agree?

i can find many youtubed videos displaying acts of outright violence, hatred and bigotry of either one of those groups but it would be rather untrue for me to claim they are ALL like that. I realize in some cases the stereotype fits but usually that is where it ends.

I don't hear many jokes about Christians where the punchline is killing another homosexual and albeit true, mathew shepards death was the inspiration for many gays to accuse such ideologies as the reason for his death. he was killed by a meth addict who was a former sexual partner of his and was angry about not being fronted more meth from his dealer who was none other than, Matthew Shepard.

I believe the op owes an apology for the attempt to blanket the entire concept of religion in his statment about what Christian hate speech causes but I won't hold my breath.

the meth dealer bull# is the kind of crap the right wing nut jobs spread..

you definatlly sound like those morons like Rush.. and as typical u cant accept any contridictions to u'r belief.. and apparently cant accept any idea that seems to show how and where u are wrong.. and the garbage you are spewing about gays sounds like the same crap that these nutjobs claim is persecution of christians.. and as far as reading the bible Paul was telling the isrealites not to practice the male protitution at the temples and as far as sodom and gomara.. they wernt destroyed because of gayness they were destroyed because rape of a man by a man is a form of taking power and control from another.among other evil and wicked things they were doing.. . youre very long winded and like to harp about how gays and others are just as hatefull to christians how ever the persecution of gays goes back way further than the supposed persucution of the current christian ideology..and where archeology and science contridics the bible people like you piss and moan that the scientists are persecuting christians and that science is a tool of the devil to lead us astray but when it does seem to verify somthing in the bible you guys harp and say that see even science proves that there is a god.. most of the ideaology in christianity seems to be easily manipulated and has a double standard.. and definatlly luv to pick and choose whats convieniant for that particular ideaology and docturine.. and will even change the wording in the bible to suit.. so please get off your superieority kick and your high horse and look deeper into the history of the book there was and is some wonderfull stuff in there but a lot seems to be very debateable.. and calls into question why this is so.. the conclusion i came to was the early on it was used to manipulate and control the people..

and as far as the witch trials. there were dozens.. but that was here in the U.S.. thousands were murdered in europe under that claim.. .. next i guess your gonna tell us that the sun goes around the earth and that the world is flat...

[edit on 1-9-2009 by scorand]

Originally posted by jinx880101
I love how these people who call themselves Christians, just take out little titbits from the bible, and twist them to suit whatever they are doing. When it suits them, some things said in the Bible are meant in a 'metaphoric' way, and other times it isn't. Wish they would just make up their minds already. These people scare me, you never know what they are accually capeable of. Well, this shows you.

Last summer, there was a guy standing in the road yelling with a big sighn that read 'REPENT OR BURN IN HELL' in bold red letters. Man, that really freaked me out!

what do you mean "twist to mean what ever they are doing"? what is it they are doing they twist?

Originally posted by scorand


What is ones idea of an extremist or fundamentalist may just be anothers idea of luke warm Christianity. I see the same distinctions and similiarities of fanaticism and fundamentalism in many of the atheist's, truthers, and debunkers here as I do in fred phelps. Wouldn't you agree?

i can find many youtubed videos displaying acts of outright violence, hatred and bigotry of either one of those groups but it would be rather untrue for me to claim they are ALL like that. I realize in some cases the stereotype fits but usually that is where it ends.

I don't hear many jokes about Christians where the punchline is killing another homosexual and albeit true, mathew shepards death was the inspiration for many gays to accuse such ideologies as the reason for his death. he was killed by a meth addict who was a former sexual partner of his and was angry about not being fronted more meth from his dealer who was none other than, Matthew Shepard.

I believe the op owes an apology for the attempt to blanket the entire concept of religion in his statment about what Christian hate speech causes but I won't hold my breath.

the meth dealer bull# is the kind of crap the right wing nut jobs spread..

No actually it was left wing ABC 20/20 with stone philips that spread that and unless the cops and the kids of that area are all lying, it isn't "bull****"

and as far as the witch trials. there were dozens.. but that was here in the U.S.. thousands were murdered in europe under that claim.. .. next i guess your gonna tell us that the sun goes around the earth and that the world is flat...

Mmm nope I see you goto your mind made up, I sure wouldn't want to confuse you with the facts about me now. Seems your prejudice and religious bigotry is smacking you right in the face as everything you hate about them, you have just displayed toward me.

But Ill forgive it.

you definatlly sound like those morons like Rush.. and as typical u cant accept any contridictions to u'r belief..

Lets see, you have called me enough names and we haven't even introduced ourselves, have we met in another thread or do you normally pull things up not spoken to you but as if they were and taken so personally you feel the need to personally attack me so?

Ya know what, on second thought, don't bother, I have no interest in discussing this with you until you grow up some more.

reply to post by Stylez


your right name calling isnt the way to go.. and i apologize.. but that post kinda got my goat..

how ever the matthew sheppard incident 20/20 claims to have happened.. didnt appear in court.. the guys definatlly wanted to rob a gay dude. for the druggs money or whatever i dont think that really matters or is the point.. the point is he was singled out because he was gay and this lead to his death at the hands of two straight guys. and as for my supposed religous bigotry.. well.. gee i wonder why.. could it be the manipulation of congregations to further an aganda. pushing ignorance? intolerance? and blantant disreguard for the actuall word and the twisting of a rather good book.. gee so many reasons.. how ever i would rather see christianity learn from the past.. and not repeat it.. the nicean council picked and chose what books were gonna be added.. and rome i'm sure saw that thier empire was dying so took it all further and seems to be rather out for world domination.. now i know quite a few christians who are wonderful people. however i know many more that use the face of christianity as a mask and are some of the most mean, manipulitive nasty twofaced people. and i know theres a dif between a true christian.. but they do tend to pick and chose acording to thier ideaology..

reply to post by Stylez


What are you talking about? You are saying (if anyone can fathom what you are saying) that AIDS was created by scientists working on malaria vaccine using dirty needles. Then you say that it is spread by anal sex. Then you say that this is only by homosexuals, whilst totally denying that heterosexuals too have anal sex…man with woman…same way.
Then just to suit your perverted world view, somehow all the paedophile statistics are misconstrued (by heterosexuals probably as they are in the majority) in order to show that more heterosexuals are paedophiles. Now why would that happen with the hatred in the world of homosexuals? Or are all statistic gatherers homosexual…lol Child abuse is child abuse no matter what words you use for it, and is found mainly enacted by heterosexuals, often very ‘respectable’ people. I have had interesting chats with gay male friends. You use the term pederast to distinguish an adult male grooming and then sexually assaulting an adolescent male. Do you know that most of them are heterosexual married men? They do their deed and go back to wife and kids. It is actually about control which seems to be a particular need amongst some heterosexual men. And when the adolescent can actually talk back, they are then dumped. It is inadequate heterosexual men controlling others in the main. Just as rape is inadequate heterosexual men controlling someone they see as weaker.

Homosexuals are murdered the world over. And no it is not a raised eyebrow and a giggle. In Brazil I think it is every other day a gay man is murdered. And I dread to think how often they are killed in the Arab world and other countries.
This nut job preacher Anderson, is not expressing religious freedom, he is expressing rabid hatred and incitement to murder. He is about as Christian as my backside in the true sense of the word, and he is on a fast track to jail.
You appear to have a strange agenda. Interesting that you go to gay sites, many gay people don’t even bother to do that. The words of Christians spouting righteousness and hate is not strange to me as many of the Christians I have come across have been manipulative hypocrites and liars, often not very intelligent but displaying cunning, who know not of morality, and merely use Christianity to excuse their own hate ridden, sordid and unchristian behaviour.
The huge difference is that I would not call for them to be killed.