The Astral Circus vs. Spiritual Realms

Originally posted by caitlinfae
look at what I can do for you...just follow my lead, and ignore all these naysayers...you know the truth, because you're more special than any of them....you have contact, you know things, you can talk to me...."

Thats the astral-drug-pusher talking

They get this glazed-look on their face because they are so special.

reply to post by beezwaxes


That lower astrals can't fake the feeling of love is part of the problem, I feel. They will induce an approximation of it though, and if the person involved hasn't experienced love in it's finest frequency, in a true spiritual form, then they will have no point of reference. Again, it's more about our lack of discernment and desire to believe than their ability to fool us.

reply to post by Skyfloating


I'm sorry, its becoming difficult to continue in this discussion for me because I feel that you are jumping wildly with your thoughts, so its hard for me to keep a logical sequence. (What does trust has to do with sending money to someone that asks for it?)

Anyhow, I think you don't know what spirituality means. One who is spiritual has nothing to lose thus cannot be gullible. In fact, to one who is truly spiritual to be cheated or deceived would be the greatest thing ever. One can learn much more by making mistakes then by trying to avoid mistakes.

The great purpose of enlightenment or meditation is the practical every-day application of it. You don't do that stuff to stand out and have your own unique moment. If you think so, its not really you that is thinking but your ego. There is no point in enlightenment of meditation if you are not to integrate the teachings in your every-day physical life.

Originally posted by Geladinhu
I'm sorry, its becoming difficult to continue in this discussion for me because I feel that you are jumping wildly with your thoughts, so its hard for me to keep a logical sequence.

No problem mate

(I dont really understand what your point is, but all is well anyway)

[edit on 25-8-2009 by Skyfloating]

Great, great post, Skyfloating! Just what I've been thinking for quite a while, but you've put into words very nicely.

I was always quite perceptive, even as a child, and used to dabble in New Age practices and paranormal stuff since my early twenties. At some point I was so "tuned in," if you will, that I could see and do things others couldn't do, and I was so psychic that I started working as a Tarot reader for a while.

However, I had quite a few experiences with the "lower astral realms," as you call them (I call them the "Dark Side")... not pretty and nothing you want to necessarily repeat. Still, I was very much into all this New Agey stuff -- from past-life memories to "energy work," communication with the supernatural realms, etc., etc. I tried most of the exercises in the Castaneda books, I started my own "Conversations with God," I was interested in psychic readings, channeling, etc., etc. (even though I never let any entity speak through me, always felt it was wrong to let anything or anyone have control over my body).

After I got married, had a child, and most importantly left Sedona, AZ -- which has an incredible energy that makes you experience "things" if you're open to it -- I seemed to have lost my "powers"... which I sorely missed and regretted. On the other hand, I also didn't get hit with astral attacks and such anymore. Still, I felt awful, disconnected, like all my "specialness" had left me.

I had stopped doing Tarot readings, because I felt that I was actually CREATING the future for the people I read for. If they believed me, I had created a self-fulfilling prophecy. Granted, I never told anyone horrible things, like they'd have an accident or die, or get a bad disease, or something. I always tried to be responsible and help my clients to help themselves in a positive way. Still, it just started feeling WRONG to me; even though I was craving to do readings again like you wouldn't believe. I really had to fight the urge to do it.

Then I found the book "The Siren Call of Hungry Ghosts" by Joe Fisher.

This is an absolute must-read for anyone dealing with New Age beliefs, channeling, and the supernatural. Joe Fisher was a journalist who stumbled into a "spiritual circle" in Canada; the medium channeled various entities, basically one spirit guide for each of the regulars who would form the circle.

These "spirit guides" claimed they had lived on earth before; they gave minute details about their past lives, names, addresses, names of relatives, friends, coworkers, dates, places, etc. They were apparently very spiritually advanced and wise, answered questions about the nature of the universe, told about future events, etc.

At some point Joe decided to find out more about the life story of the main spirit guide (forgot his name). He traveled to England, and even though most of the story checked out, the person the spirit guide had claimed he was didn't exist. (All the other things, dates, places, relatives, friends, etc. were true.)

Joe, feeling betrayed, went back to Canada and confronted the spirit guide... and then all hell broke loose. Not only did the members of the circle react very aggressively to his revelations, but the "guides" themselves started to come down on him hard. They convinced the other members that Joe was just jealous and confused and trying to divide the circle... and they got really nasty.

In the back of the book (it was the second edition or so), there were also letters readers had written to Joe... Tarot readers and psychics, who said they knew all about deceptive spirits, and how they had been held captive by them for years.

The tragic end of the story: I googled Joe Fisher, because I wanted to know more about him. After he got out of the circle, he felt the "guides" were out to get him. He developed a pyramid-shaped growth around his belly button that had to be surgically removed, and the "guides" talked about it to him, as far as I remember. Then, later, he told his publisher, "I think the 'guides' are still following me," and said he was afraid. A week or so later he "jumped" off a cliff and died.

After this book, I never did a reading for anyone again, and I didn't go to psychics anymore (with one exception recently, and I totally had the feeling she was under the influence of astral bullsh*tters).

All I do now is talk to the Great Spirit and my angels (some call it praying, but I do get answers if I ask for them). I'm planning to take up meditation, if only to calm myself down after a stressful day. I feel the spirituality that I'm following now is so much more down to earth and grounded than what I did before, in Sedona. There's nothing airy-fairy about it.

Granted, compared to what I had, which was incredibly exciting, every day, what I have now is kind of boring and everyday-like. But I think that's still just the old "astral boogers" talking, trying to drag me back on the wrong path. I'm actually quite content; I just miss the visions and shamanic journeys, and the supernatural adventures I was involved in.

So, Skyfloating, assuming that you've had stuff like this too, how do you deal with the boredom and "blandness" of life after the astral? How do you overcome those unbelievable cravings to be "special" and have powers again? How do you live with not being super-psychic anymore?

Intellectually I know this is a blessing and a much better, simpler way of life. Emotionally, it kills me. Do I maybe have to "cut the strings" between me and the astrals to be free of those cravings? Any good tips for me?

Oh, and it would be great if you could share what spiritual practices exactly you're doing...

reply to post by Skyfloating


My point is that you really don't know what you are talking about.
I see that you have good intentions. You want to spare people from being scammed and all. Thats wonderful. But your attempt to help is actually backfiring as I see it. You are misinforming people and as unlikely at it seems you are doing exactly the same thing as what you call the "astral-drug-pusher", you are giving a "piece of information" that supposedly makes us more aware (or more special) then other people that don't have this piece of information.

I know this is going to be hard to swallow, but I ask that you put your pride aside for a second and really consider what I am saying.

Again, to make my point clearer I'll say that spirituality includes everything. I'm going to use color analogy as you did before. Spirituality is white because it includes all other colors. White and red may seem like totally different and separate colors but that is not so because red is part of white.

Originally posted by sylvie

So, Skyfloating, assuming that you've had stuff like this too, how do you deal with the boredom and "blandness" of life after the astral? How do you overcome those unbelievable cravings to be "special" and have powers again? How do you live with not being super-psychic anymore?

Intellectually I know this is a blessing and a much better, simpler way of life. Emotionally, it kills me. Do I maybe have to "cut the strings" between me and the astrals to be free of those cravings? Any good tips for me?

Oh, and it would be great if you could share what spiritual practices exactly you're doing...

That was a pretty awesome post and reflects some of the stuff I experienced when I used to have "powers".

The realization was that they were never "my" powers in the first place, which is why Im OK with not having them anymore.

Another thing is that not necessarily all the stuff you did was astrally-based. Ever hear of the "Sedona Method"? ...you cant get much more spiritual (overcoming astral) than that! I used that method and stuff like it to clear the emotional-baggage and astral-attachments.

Sylvie, that's a great post, so thank you for sharing. I've had similar experiences, which I might share here someday. It's all a bit long winded, and maybe just too much, so I will have to think carefully about that.

It's also a shame that this has dropped to accusations of people not knowing what they're talking about. In my experience, this usually surfaces when the argument has kinda run dry, and it's like a final hurtful accusation, maybe to provoke some kind of argumentative response. Shame really...this is a great thread.

Sadly, it's the same when people challenge the popular route, and show what might be possible if we are not careful. Spirituality is not all love and light, thankfully. Really....I mean that I'm grateful for that. It's all about balance.

great post i agree with you that the psychic phenomena doesnt originate within the individual but instead from around the individual thought SOI's.

finally a thread worthy of a snf

Originally posted by Geladinhu
you are giving a "piece of information" that supposedly makes us more aware (or more special) then other people that don't have this piece of information.

Paradoxically, thats what it could be used for, yes.

I know this is going to be hard to swallow, but I ask that you put your pride aside for a second and really consider what I am saying.

I am, I really am! But if I follow your reasoning in this thread and a few other conversations I have had with you on other threads, the final conclusion would be "Its pointless to make a thread on it at all, because its all just a matter of perspective, etc."

But the thread is already made. And it affords you the opportunity to balance it out with another angle.

Again, to make my point clearer I'll say that spirituality includes everything.

Yes, it does.

I'm going to use color analogy as you did before. Spirituality is white because it includes all other colors. White and red may seem like totally different and separate colors but that is not so because red is part of white.

Nobody is denying that, much less me.

As I see it, I am doing a thread on blue vs. red and you come in and say "Lets talk about white".

Originally posted by caitlinfae

It's also a shame that this has dropped to accusations of people not knowing what they're talking about. In my experience, this usually surfaces when the argument has kinda run dry, and it's like a final hurtful accusation, maybe to provoke some kind of argumentative response. Shame really...this is a great thread.

I'm not accusing anyone. Who am I to accuse someone?
I just said what I think (maybe a little bit too directly) as to keep the discussion going. The argument has not run dry. I actually just started with the argumentation but because Sky keeps skipping and ignoring the important things that I say I have to keep repeating them in more direct manners every time he does so until the point that someone comes up all defensive as if I was personally attacking him.

Is it really a shame to have my opinion shared? If it is I have to say that ATS is getting pretty weird.

reply to post by Geladinhu


To clarify: It is perhaps a MISTAKE of me to use the label "spiritual realms" for these realms I am referring to.

I got that

(Damn Words and Definitions )

[edit on 25-8-2009 by Skyfloating]

Okay, so now I'm really confused.
I thought you were talking about the "white" all the time but now that you say you were actually talking about the "blue" I really don't know what this thread is about.

I'm sorry for being an impulsive fool. Can you help me out in understanding better what you are talking about? What is the "blue" and the "red"? Can you make it simple for me?

Originally posted by Geladinhu
Okay, so now I'm really confused.
I thought you were talking about the "white" all the time but now that you say you were actually talking about the "blue" I really don't know what this thread is about.

I'm sorry for being an impulsive fool. Can you help me out in understanding better what you are talking about? What is the "blue" and the "red"? Can you make it simple for me?

Appropriately, I would have had to use another title, such as "the brownish-reddish-greenish states of energy vs. the blue-ish-purple-ish states of energy" ...

...because, as you correctly point out, "spiritual" includes everything in the sense that everything is energy.

But that would have made for an odd title and I think most people actually "get" the sense.

reply to post by Skyfloating


I still don't understand.
What makes those two groups of energy different groups of energy?
Is it the way one reacts to them? If so, each group of energy would have an infinite number of other groups of energy within because each person may experience and react to them differently, no?

Now that you explained that you are not talking about spirituality I want to understand what you are talking about. I'm seriously having difficulties.

reply to post by sylvie


Add to that, that spiritual practice is not really "bland". You still feel the energy, you still experience phenomena, you still get blissful now and then...but you dont have to parade it around or use it to "get" something that is suppsedly lacking.

Originally posted by Geladinhu
I still don't understand.
What makes those two groups of energy different groups of energy?
Is it the way one reacts to them? If so, each group of energy would have an infinite number of other groups of energy within because each person may experience and react to them differently, no?

Now that you explained that you are not talking about spirituality I want to understand what you are talking about. I'm seriously having difficulties.

Im talking about two different realms of energy, within what is commonly offered as "spirituality".



[edit on 25-8-2009 by Skyfloating]

Originally posted by Skyfloating

Im talking about two different realms of energy.

I understand that.
But I don't understand the difference between those two different realms of energy. I see that you are saying that there are two different realms of energy but I don't see that and I'd like you to make me see it the way you are seeing it. I only see one energy and that is why I misunderstood you in the beginning of the thread. You are saying that there are in fact two energies. All I'm asking now is that you make it clear for me the two distinct realms of energy that exist because I'm still only seeing one.

reply to post by Geladinhu


There is ONE energy, then there are two, then there are ten, then there are millions.

Ive already answered this with the thermometer analogy where one can either see ONE thermometer, or TWO things: Hot and Cold. Or millions of things, millions of degrees.

In this particular post, adults are seeing the thermometer as TWO distinct qualities, although they could also be seen as ONE or as several.

This type of discernment can be useful on ones journey as a human.

Originally posted by coodeytar


If they’re not doing any one any harm, except presumably in your eyes, themselves, why bother them. Jesus has some choice words on this matter but they elude me.

In my experience this just is not the case. There are entities/ immature thought forms/ discarnates that are most definatly of a lower vibration to the plane we find ourselves in. The majority of communication is from these realms and not spiritual realms. Some if not most are harmless (they have "fun" with us but really cause no lasting damadge) but they are still astrals. There is a smaller set which do cause fear and dread and actually astrally attack us. Yes we are of the one Source but they still need discerning against. All I believe is from the one Source, but when duality was manifested (in order for the one to experience itself) these astrals creation became inevitable.

Yes the source will eventually call these astrals back, as it was the Source in my opinion that choose that they should be, but in the mean time I shall have no more to do with them. I do not deny their existance for that gives them energy, I simply acknowlege their existance but place them outside of my being. This way we can co exist peacefully.