The Astral Circus vs. Spiritual Realms

Originally posted by Geladinhu
I understand your point, Sky, but I personally believe that all of that which you said is ego-based and as you disregard astral-realms because of their supposedly ego-base I am forced to disregard everything that you have said.

Let me try to explain my perspective a little bit better.
You are basically saying that "spiritual is good" and that "astral is bad" or at least not as good as spiritual.
Isn't that pretty much non-inclusive like you stated that the "astral" (which is bad) is?

There is a difference between discernment and judgementalism.

An analogy: Hot and Cold are not "good and bad" but merely different points on a thermometer that can be discerned. In an infinite context, this thermometer would be infinitely long, making any point of the thermometer both hot and cold (compared to other points of the thermometer).

The same goes for spiritual energies and offered products where one can discern the "vibe", without being judgemental ("good", "bad").

So, from my viewpoint, neither judgementalism nor inability to discern are entirely wholesome. If I dont have the ability to discern, I can get scammed by anyone.

Could you be more specific perhaps you mean the linking of vibes with feelings?

I feel the vibes everywhere however they don't all tell me what I feel.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
Spiritualities Focus is on gradual and patient self-improvement and relief of the worlds suffering.

Or is it live and let live? Words, definitions, they do confuse matters.

If they’re not doing any one any harm, except presumably in your eyes, themselves, why bother them. Jesus has some choice words on this matter but they elude me. It’s not a competition to be ‘right', there are as many answers and paths as there are people. You go your way, let them go theirs.

reply to post by Mr Green


Hmm ok...let me clarify this, which I should have done in my last posting, so I'm sorry fo that little bit of confusion. I have no issue with Archangel Michael. I don't think that he, as a divine being, is anything but genuine. What I take huge exception to is how people who have been shown a little "spirituality lite" will assume complete familiarity with him, and refer to him for almost bloody anything. How can they even be sure that whatever energy they are in touch with *is* the Archangel? How do they know? Cos it makes them feel nice? There is no discernment taught to these people. I've even heard one particular angel therapist refer to him as Big Mike, as if that's respectful.

There are rituals, I believe, that will help you summon angels, but I have no knowledge of them beyond being aware that they can take months or years of careful cleansing and preparation, and they are not to be taken lightly.

I hope I didn't offend anyone who might think I was being disrespectful. Not my intention.

Originally posted by caitlinfae
You know...call me paranoid but this is a conspiracy site...but I find myself wondering if this kinda of alleged spiritual contact is deliberately being marketed and promoted by the people in power on earth precisely because it's so dangerous.

Since I work in the field or "Business" of spiritual and new-age-stuff I can assure you that its easy to scam money out of people who are not quite aware of various ongoings. At several times in my life I found myself in a situation where I could have either withheld the truth from someone and cashed in on it, or just told the truth and supposedly "loose" dollars. There`s the temptation to scam people because they are so naive and gullible.

While I denied giving in to the temptation, I have made mistakes without knowing it back then. Its just a lack of knowledge, and one makes mistakes.

So, in short, its certainly a mix of many factors: Some people actively abusing what they know about energy and some just making naive choices.

Nobody is taught anything of how the whole world is run by and based on energies. Not in school, not in the media, not at the university.

So when they go to a sports event, they dont have a clue that they are at an energy-event. That the teams have a certain energy and can win with a certain energy. That advertisers use the state of heightened emotions to imprint images. That the crowds can influence the outcome of the game with their energy.

So I guess withholding the fact that everything runs on the invisible, on energy-forces, is a power game.

Originally posted by coodeytar
Or is it live and let live? Words, definitions, they do confuse matters.

If they’re not doing any one any harm, except presumably in your eyes, themselves, why bother them. Jesus has some choice words on this matter but they elude me. It’s not a competition to be ‘right', there are as many answers and paths as there are people. You go your way, let them go theirs.

See my post on Discernment vs. Judgementalism above.

reply to post by Skyfloating


So let me get this straight.
You are basically saying "Lookout, don't be scammed"?
That has nothing to do with spirituality and astralism does it?

You could use insecticides instead of spiritual matters to make your point, which is a point I think that everybody in ATS is pretty much aware of.

Originally posted by spaz490

Could you be more specific perhaps you mean the linking of vibes with feelings?

I feel the vibes everywhere however they don't all tell me what I feel.

Im not sure what you`re referring to. Elaborate.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
An analogy: Hot and Cold are not "good and bad" but merely different points on a thermometer that can be discerned. In an infinite context, this thermometer would be infinitely long, making any point of the thermometer both hot and cold (compared to other points of the thermometer).

Semantics, but a thermometre identifies hot and cold based, and programmed, by our perception of those two states. The thermometre is therefore subjective to human experience. And an invention of human ingenuity and imagination. As are all things by definition as it is we who defined them. Including what is spiritual and what is astral, that is further redefined by you the individual, and times it by 7 billion at the last count that I saw.



[edit on 25-8-2009 by coodeytar]

Just an excellent thread. Great posts and very well put op. It really bugs me that so many people think any voice in their heads/dreams or in someone else's head is from something honest, good, kind, intelligent and, farseeing.

Call em what you want but these lower astral type critters cause people far more problems than they're given credit for and the sooner that becomes common knowledge amongst the 'enlightened' the better.

this topic raises the idea of selfishness vs. sacrifice. (astral vs. spiritual)
the evil is choking our culture like never before.
- virtues such as patience and perseverance are being replaced by instant gratification (quick and easy astral power vs. patient sacrificial spiritual progress)
- kindness and sacrifice is being swapped for selfish ambition
- the "path of ease" has replaced the "path of sacrifice".
- people are only seeing the bait that is directly in front of them, rather than what is eternal, and lasting.
- humble allegiance to God is replaced by prideful allegiance to self.

yes, this age is wrapping up quickly. our motives in this life will determine our reward in the next. as Jesus said "he who loves his life will lose it, but he who despises (sacrifices) his life in this world, will keep it for eternal life" John 12:25

Originally posted by coodeytar
Or is it live and let live? Words, definitions, they do confuse matters.

If they’re not doing any one any harm, except presumably in your eyes, themselves, why bother them. Jesus has some choice words on this matter but they elude me. It’s not a competition to be ‘right', there are as many answers and paths as there are people. You go your way, let them go theirs.

There`s a fine line between discernment and being judgemental. I can say "dont touch the electric fence, it will hurt", without saying "you are a bad person for doing that" or "the fence is bad".

Of course the fence is not "bad".

But from viewing various activities astrally/out-of-body there is a set of observations made and from those observations some predictions can be made.

reply to post by Geladinhu


Sorry for interrupting here, but I just wanted to add that there is huge opportunity to be "scammed" by astrals, as they often pretend, or ALLOW us to feel what we want to feel, and unless we are trained properly, we won't know the difference between them and the real deal, if you like. A crude way of putting it, but it's as simple as that.

Someone fresh to popular spirituality will be completely open and more than likely very confused, and will follow the path that makes them FEEL the most like they want or expect to feel. Therein lies the problem. They will open doors, portals, chakras, anything, to whichever energy says...Hi! I'm Your personal Guardian Angel, and I love you...look at what I can do for you...just follow my lead, and ignore all these naysayers...you know the truth, because you're more special than any of them....you have contact, you know things, you can talk to me....", and right from the start of the relationship there is trickery, abuse, lies, and false information. Usually harmless, apart from making the individual a bit confused in most cases, but I've seen much worse. Delusion, arrogance, charlatans, egomania, victimisation, even mental illness, as a result of this kind of behaviour.

Just my pennies worth....

Originally posted by Mr Green
I do however place faith in Archangel Michael

Who`s that?

Originally posted by Skyfloating
There`s a fine line between discernment and being judgemental. I can say "dont touch the electric fence, it will hurt", without saying "you are a bad person for doing that" or "the fence is bad".

Or you can tell them that touching the electric fence will hurt, assess that they are a legal adult, in control of their mental faculties, and then let them get on with it. Discernment is an attribute over 'self' not on behalf of others. They will either learn from their mistake, or find they like the tingle of the fence...personally I never could resist touching the electric fence at the farm near me when I was a kid. It didn't do any lasting damage, and I grew out of it. I think an electric fence is a bad analogy it has no positive connotations or outcomes really. Some people have to try on many pairs of shoes before they find just the right ones, others find a perfect fit immediately, some will buy the first thing offered them, while others still will buy five inch heels that look fab but will lead to arthritis in later life.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
But from viewing various activities astrally/out-of-body there is a set of observations made and from those observations some predictions can be made.

If a mind lacks imagination then it will find nothing other than that which is presented to him. All has to be first imagined and then realised. We all possess roughly the same make and model of time/light vehicle, we don't necessarily all have the same destination in mind though.

[edit on 25-8-2009 by coodeytar]

reply to post by caitlinfae


That kind of trick that makes you feel good about it is the essence of any scam.
Again, its nothing particular to spirituality. This thread is not about spirituality, its about people.

To be completely open and confused is to be spiritual. There is no reason for one to start distrusting people just because the way they behave matches the way scammers behave. I believe that everyone loves each other although some may not understand or acknowledge that, so everyone is essentially everybody elses guardian angel.

You have nothing to lose if you are a true seeker. And as a true seeker your heart will guide you to the right path.

reply to post by coodeytar


Making a thread which discerns purple from brown hardly constitutes "telling people how to live" though. They`re going to do their thing regardless of what some internet-thread says or does not say.

However, knowing that there might be differences in quality, the may be check/question something before they dedicate their time, money etc. to it.

Originally posted by Geladinhu
To be completely open and confused is to be spiritual.

Id say its naive, gullible.

There is no reason for one to start distrusting people

The "total lack of discernment" you propose applies to meditative-practices that seek enlightenment which does not discern dualities, but it does not apply to everyday physical life.

In fact, if you trust anyone, then please send me all your money.

[edit on 25-8-2009 by Skyfloating]

Man I wish I could write as well as you people, oh well.

Yeah none of this is new, we all have choices and the trick for most seems to be discerning love. It can be tough as it's sought with such hope & desire but it's unmistakable when you run into it (I have). Lower beings can't fake that. -Ever

Originally posted by beezwaxes

Man I wish I could write as well as you people, oh well.

Yeah none of this is new, we all have choices and the trick for most seems to be discerning love. It can be tough as it's sought with such hope & desire but it's unmistakable when you run into it (I have). Lower beings can't fake that. -Ever

That was pretty well written.


[edit on 25-8-2009 by Skyfloating]