GOP leaders oppose release of more abuse images

Originally posted by Colonel
Full disclosure for the pics, full disclosure for the Cheney energy meetings, full disclosure for the 28 pages redacted in the 911 report, full disclosure for the Valerie Palme leak. FULL DISCLOSURE FOR THIS CORRUPT ADMINSITRATION!

I agree and i hope Bliar and his dirty cabinet goes down with them too.

Originally posted by COOL HAND
A thought just occurred to me, aren't we discussing an illegal act? People are being charged for breaking the UCMJ, and I am sure that there will be some kind of civil action taken in the future. It says in the box above the discussion However, please be aware that intense personal insults, board-stalking, and discussion of illegal acts are still forbidden.

If it is a violation, it is kind of funny seeing as how a mod started it and all.

Now back to the debate: There is no need to release them other than giving the dems another attacking point on the current administration.

Its funny how you like to pick and choose the rules that apply to me but refuse to acknowledge them when they apply to you like board stalking but, that's beside the point and just a "thought" on my part.

Originally posted by Colonel
Its funny how you like to pick and choose the rules that apply to me but refuse to acknowledge them when they apply to you like board stalking but, that's beside the point and just a "thought" on my part.

I do not pick and choose the rules, nor do I board stalk. Don't flatter yourself.

You define anyone as having a differing opinion as you as a board stalker. If you aren't with the Colonel, then you are stalking the Colonel. Please, you give yourself too way too much credit.

I was merely pointing out the possibility of a MOD breaking a rule. Seems kind of ironic to me.

[Edited on 13/5/04 by COOL HAND]

Originally posted by COOL HAND

Originally posted by Colonel
Why? What's the problem? They had no problem releasing the lurid sexual details of Clinton but, now, when it affects them, they want to hide.

I swear, repugnants make me sick. One (Inhofe) was even questioning why we were making such a big deal about this. Repugnants are a really depraved and secretive people. Let us see what this "Iraqi liberation" is all about? WHAT'S THE PROBLEM???

Let me ask you this Colonel. What is the point of releasing more pics? Haven't they already demonstrated that the abuses are occurring? What will showing more pics gain for them. They have their proof beyond reasonable doubt. There is no reason for the public to see any more of them. The pics released so far have already covered the spectrum.

I think the DEMS are pushing for the release of these pics because they are borderline porn. Since Dems prove to be, shall we say, of loose morals then maybe that is why they want to see the pics.

It all depends on one's context of morals. I consider loose morals the relaxation of environmental laws, sending our soldiers to be killed or wounded in a trumped up war, continued stonewalling and lying, and a litany of other things to be morally loose.

I'm all for showing the rest of the photos, over and over again.

As long as the videos of Berg and Daniel Pearl are shown over and over again

Right after the pictures of those 4 contractors being burned and hung from the bridge in Fallujah

We also need to give equal time to the poor souls jumping out of the WTC. Show that one on the half-hour, 24x7.



[Edited on 13-5-2004 by jsobecky]

Originally posted by drunk

Originally posted by Colonel
FULL DISCLOSURE FOR THIS CORRUPT ADMINSITRATION!

I agree and i hope Bliar and his dirty cabinet goes down with them too.

Sure...I forgot the politicians.

Kerry telling a voter "That's none of your business" when asked about talking to foreign leaders...

Teddy Koepechne-Kennedy spewing his daily vitriol.

Ben-Veniste acting like a total ass in the 9/11 commission

Jamie Gorelick can give full disclosure as to why she is not testifying under oath, in public...

etc. etc. etc.



[Edited on 13-5-2004 by jsobecky]

Colonel, youve already started a thread on the abuse photos, but you seemingly fled when things got hot in there about your ideas, now i see a new thread with almost the exact idea and theme.

We knew in the last thread that there were still unreleased photos, about 1600 of them.

So why is your old thread on prisoner abuse photos no longer valid for you? (you havnt returned there in a long time), and what makes this new thread any different from your old one?

Hmm, im detecting a pattern of "abandon thread and start again" with your postings when things get too hot for you in the threads you create.

PS, in one of the threads you were getting trashed in, i supported you (but not what you said) when all others were bashing hard. This is not an attack, but observations of your behaivior...one only has to follow the postings to come to this conclusion.

This whole scandal needs to be investigated by a non-american authority. These are abuses of human rights, and a clear violation of the geneva convention. If its an American investigation it will be watered down and everything will be glossed over and we'll be told it was all blown out of proportion.

We need the UN, the Red Cross, Amnesty International, the World Court... anyone thats not US run to investigate this. And i think the people of the world and especially Iraq deserve to see what their 'Liberators' do behind closed doors. The images of soldiers having sex need not be released (as interesting as they will be i'm sure) unless the sex is affecting the prisoners in a negative way.

I for one want to see whats happening in Iraq. Any prisoners Australian troops capture are handed over to the US and Britain, and i want to see what treatment the people my countries representatives have handed to the USA are getting.

If we dont get to see these new images, i will assume the worse of the USA and so will many other people around the world. Covering it up will only fuel suspiscion.

Let me ask you this Colonel. What is the point of releasing more pics? Haven't they already demonstrated that the abuses are occurring? What will showing more pics gain for them.

What is the point? That IS the point! We as Americans have the Right to have those pics disclosed. Sure, not everyone will want to see them, I don't particularly want to see them. The whole point is that we have the right to have them made available. Otherwise, just like GW stated before he was elected, that he would like to be a dictator, sure looks like he's getting his wish. What with all the testimony that is blocked, seems like it is happening pretty quick too.

Just my 2 cents worth.

specialasianX says;
"This whole scandal needs to be investigated by a non-american authority."
and
"We need the UN, the Red Cross, Amnesty International, the World Court... anyone thats not US run to investigate this"

While i agree that those soldiers involved must face dicipline for their actions, I am not willing to turn them over to mostly anti-USA biased, witch hunting farce of a fair trial....

Specialx again;
"If its an American investigation it will be watered down and everything will be glossed over and we'll be told it was all blown out of proportion."
What an assumption!!

This attitude ASSUMES that we dont want to really see justice for things that almost unamously have been condemed here in the states.
This assumes that Americans are not interested (P.i.s.s.e.d. off) about our honor being tarnished, and showing that we intend to make ammends for this.
Many of us were very embarrased and outraged at this, and WE need to be the ones taking the actions to clean up things in order to show we ARE serious with our words matching our deeds...others cannot do this (mostly WONT), only WE can restore some of the lost credibillity.
This assumes that our justice system is incapable of reaching the same verdict that others would.

Too many assumptions for me to allow mob justice to prevail over a fair proceedure for those accused. (heck I already say their guilty, but will make sure that they have as fair of a hearing as possible)

Specialx says;
" i think the people of the world and especially Iraq deserve to see what their 'Liberators' do behind closed doors. "

The only people that DESERVE to see these images are the Iraqis and the coalition...anyone else thats not involved is a spectator. While im fine with them observing, they arent involved and so can only be puting in their "2 cent" worth. They can feel how they like, but im not letting someone NOT involved in the situation to stick there nose in where it dosent belong.

Specialx to close;
"If we dont get to see these new images, i will assume the worse of the USA and so will many other people around the world. Covering it up will only fuel suspiscion.

Another assumption? You assume alot!
And as if the worst isnt already being said about the USA?
Where is the cover up?!!!
This has been front line news for days now....many images have been seen, people accused are in custody, investigations and criminal proceedings are underway, the facillity in question is being re-vamped and our President made a public, world wide apology!!!!!(rarely ever seen in the world from a world leader)

So now that this idea, which has already been backed up with evidence is in front of the world, What point is there to see more of the same evidence we already have?

Again I say, those that would use images of anyone being abused for political gain is sick!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
How much MORE exploitation of these peoples abuse do you need to see to understand the situation....WE GET IT ALREADY!!! WERE DOING SOMETHING ABOUT IT! (unlike the terrorists that stated they WILL use abuse again!)

KATHI
As far as things proceeding slowly and partially behind closed doors, its that in order to make sure those charged recieve a fair hearing, in order to protect the victims abused from explotation or worse, in order to ensure the investigators dont have to "rush job" this and possible BLOW the case against the accused, in order to ensure that the evidence is accurate and not "spun" or worse....
these proceedings must have some measure of privacy

Blame Bush for the wheels of justice turning in accepted ways/reasons?
I dont see where anyone can logically make that leap in assesing the situation. International laws and proceedures as well as our own were already in place before your dreaded Bush arrived.
How do you now blame him for these proceedures being implemented? (OH yeah i forgot, you are ok with abuse exploitation for anti-bush rhetoric)

For both of you
I am not advocating hiding anything, but there is the right time, place and manner for this information to be released....and the world media is NOT the reasonable/fair choice. Nor is it (world opinion) the established rule of law for dealing with such incidences.

Originally posted by Kathi
What is the point? That IS the point! We as Americans have the Right to have those pics disclosed. Sure, not everyone will want to see them, I don't particularly want to see them. The whole point is that we have the right to have them made available. Otherwise, just like GW stated before he was elected, that he would like to be a dictator, sure looks like he's getting his wish. What with all the testimony that is blocked, seems like it is happening pretty quick too.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Then by using your logic, we as americans should have no censorship placed on us at all. Kids can see porn whenever they want, anything goes on the radio, etc.

I said it before and I will say it again. What is the point of seeing more of the same. There is no doubt in anyone's mind that it occured. Would anyone suddenly change their minds about the whole thing if they could only see a few more pics of the torture in action? I think not.

Originally posted by CazMedia
Colonel, youve already started a thread on the abuse photos, but you seemingly fled when things got hot in there about your ideas, now i see a new thread with almost the exact idea and theme.

We knew in the last thread that there were still unreleased photos, about 1600 of them.

So why is your old thread on prisoner abuse photos no longer valid for you? (you havnt returned there in a long time), and what makes this new thread any different from your old one?

Hmm, im detecting a pattern of "abandon thread and start again" with your postings when things get too hot for you in the threads you create.

PS, in one of the threads you were getting trashed in, i supported you (but not what you said) when all others were bashing hard. This is not an attack, but observations of your behaivior...one only has to follow the postings to come to this conclusion.

I'm not ducking anything. I'm just busy and the repugnants amass in flocks to attack me in so many threads that my attention can be taken elsewhere.

[Edited on 14-5-2004 by Colonel]

Originally quoted by Cool Hand:

Then by using your logic, we as americans should have no censorship placed on us at all. Kids can see porn whenever they want, anything goes on the radio, etc.

You know, I've heard that response before. And most of the time it comes from people who think they shouldn't discipline their children for dirty deeds. Ergo, they don't want to have the responsibility of controlling the content of their children's viewing pleasure.

My point was having them AVAILABLE, It doesn't mean they have to shove them down my throat. Maybe they see them through an age verification method... But you seem to fall back on that old "elephant" standby for most anything, Porno. I'm not a great fan of porno myself, but I do believe in the right to have it AVAILABLE.

If it is just too much trouble for you to control your child's viewing content, well, there is a solution to that too.

Originally posted by Kathi
My point was having them AVAILABLE, It doesn't mean they have to shove them down my throat. Maybe they see them through an age verification method... But you seem to fall back on that old "elephant" standby for most anything, Porno. I'm not a great fan of porno myself, but I do believe in the right to have it AVAILABLE.

Great now you are spawning another illicit industry. Iraqi War Prison pics, unlimited access for only $29.95 a month. Just what we need.

If it is just too much trouble for you to control your child's viewing content, well, there is a solution to that too.

Right, so you are saying that you are a advocate of censorship, be it from the government or from your parents.

Right, so you are saying that you are a advocate of censorship, be it from the government or from your parents.

Excuse me! I was my belief that when you have a child, it is your duty and responsibility to guide that child to adulthood. Apparently you have a different view.

It was explained to me when I was a child that the right we have as humans in this country applied to adults. The adults have the duty to help their children to grow up into responsible adults. And yet, I see so many teenagers and younger getting into trouble simply because their parents don't take the time to instill a sense of honor in their kids.

As far as starting a new industry and charging for the pics? Why does anyone have to charge. We all pay taxes, the disclosure should be covered under the Freedom of Information Act, there is no reason to charge. If the government releases them freely, others will do so too. If some do charge, whoever buys from them is a fool.

This is why I think they should release the photos, or at least a select few. Americans are morons. They don't read, and they can't visualize. They need pictures to process info. I see this on ATS all the time, if you describe something, they won't or can't process or believe it. But show them a picture, and a lightbulb in their head turns on. Remember when the photos first came out? Everyone was saying, oh, it's not that bad. Even though, at the Senate hearings, they said there were pictures of rape and murder. Now we have pictures, so some are starting to beleive. Show some of the pictures, then even more will beleive, or at least learn, since they don't read. But a small percentage will try to debunk the photos, comparing shadow angles and such. But in order to get the truth out, unfortunately in today's society, nothing is real unless you see it on tv.


EDIT: Oh, someone mentioned 9/11. Iraq has nothing to do with 9/11. WMD, freedom, money, whatever you believe, Bush said that Saddam had no ties al queda, or the taliban, the Saudi's that comitted 9/11.

[Edited on 14-5-2004 by curme]

YES! Well said, Kathi.
I was always VERY anti-censorship. Then I became a father.
I am a HUGE believer in the concept of "if you don't like it, change the channel", however even the most responsible and informed parents can't monitor what their child sees & hears 100% of the time.

Just because you are free to say or do something, it doesn't absolve you of responsibility (you can't shout "FIRE" in a crowded theatre, cause a riot, and then hide behind free speech).

EXAMPLE:
I usually disagree with the Colonel, but never will I tell him he has to shut up. It is his right to call me a Nazi (or a "Repugnant"), but if he issues a call to violence then that's another story.

P.S. Even though I often completely disagree with his views, the Colonel's threads are among the most entertaining on this site. Keep it up.

Originally posted by Kathi
As far as starting a new industry and charging for the pics? Why does anyone have to charge. We all pay taxes, the disclosure should be covered under the Freedom of Information Act, there is no reason to charge. If the government releases them freely, others will do so too. If some do charge, whoever buys from them is a fool.

Then why do we have such things as Pay Per View? Someone would have to pay to post those pictures on a website. They will have to generate income somehow.

The government should not be expected to release the photos to a commercial site, nor should they be willing to release anymore of them until the investigation is complete.

Just couldn't resist that!
First: It's not supposed to be this political, it's a stain against America's overall honor, and we need to do something to make it right (notice I didn't say better..it's too late to fix what's already done).

I really detest how some Demoralists are using this in 5 different directions, trying to boost someone's *ahac* *Kerry* *coff* polls. No wonder the Iraq militants look at us with disgust, we allow all sorts of in-fighting on subjects where we should be showing a united front...hmmm, I wonder what the political orientation of those who did the actual torturing is?
What is the matter with seeing all these pictures, all it does is fuel anger and hatred...just knowing htat it happend is bad enough.

Second:Oh, and great, give this to some legal group outside the United States? The UN's got it's nose so far up every group that they cannot handle's butt that I don't trust their "common sense" to walk to the bathroom in a straight line, sober.
Now, one of the less seeinly controlled-by-everyone-BUT-the-United-States working with the US, mught be palatable...probably not going to get MY way here, either...

I'm surprised we haven't more about the sexually explicit "abuse photos" that the Boston Globe ran the other day.
Boston City Councilor Chuck Turner held a press conference to display photos he said showed Iraqi women being raped by US soldiers. The photos were unverified, but the Globe decided to run them anyway. Well it turns out that the "abuse photos" were mailed to Councilman Turner by a pro-Muslim group and the photos were actually taken off a pornographic website.

Whoops.