Big Conflict! Christian over 30 years dealing with New Info Need Help, What Is True?

reply to post by AshleyD


Hello Ashley,

Yours truly here...Grandma is not on here as much as I am...but she does read her threads often.

Throughout this thread my beliefs and thoughts are many and can be found. I believe Jesus was a son of God...but I believe we are all on this path to become this. Jesus was the first fruit that opened the womb for all of us. He showed us what we need to do. My reasons for not accepting blood sacrafices are many and can be found within the thread. Basically, I feel the Spirit has shown me that these orders were not ordered by God nor are required by God...for Thee needs nothing of Earthly things. It is the Spiritual of us Thee needs....and Jesus shows us how to give that. Give back to the Earth what is Earth and give to the Spirit what is of Spirit.

Every seeds goes back to where it comes from.

I know many believe the stories that God ordered man to kill men and animals. I now see these were carnal natures of those men....but yet in its own right it has things for us to learn about our Earthly nature and our Spiritual nature.

I look at Jesus as my comforter...the one who helps me walk in the way.

I dont take things that scribes wrote as totally right or to be always read in a literal way. My path and learning is forever on going....this in itself was hard to accept also....for who wants to think they dont know.

I know I know....I dont take the Bible as absolute. So I am prepared to not be understood. Its all ok with me though.

Leovirgo, what is your name anyway ?

well, it's because you prefer listening to your heart
that always in everybody speaks love, because god is one, and that's what you feel,
that one day you'll understand the bible
as not having contradictions.
Instead of trying to understand it on fear, then only contradictions will come up.
Fear in a way is selfish, because it will only goes about your wish to survive,
but fear we can't avoid and have to use for the good. as a motor, turning negative into positive.

God is truth and because of this the heart will lead the logic to comply,
logic is only logic when it repented every lie, everything that isn't possible.
So yes, God can be understood in logic, and he will end the job,
because a human has a limited job, and god takes over once in LOGIC.
Salvation is growing intot his logic.

When you confirm the son, which is the father, you confirm the father,
and the father is everything, confirm the father in everything and you confirm
the son growing the father is growing the son, because they are one.
How bigger god becomes, how bigger you make yourself connected to him,
only possible by love, so instead going up (as in selfishness),
the father actually comes down and takes over more and more of you.
Every truth comes out by the mouth because in honesty nothing stays private
anymore, how more close to god, how more flow.
See the father in everything, is trying to grow forgiveness towards everything.
Difficult job, that's why it is a cross, and it's based on giving and care.
for-giving = giving justice, setting right of what is not yet in your view a part of god.


[edit on 5-9-2009 by pasttheclouds]

reply to post by pasttheclouds


I dont fear anymore....it is the release of fear that I changed my view. Fear kept me seeing the literal words. Overcoming the fear took me a long time....Im sure I still foster some fears...but I dont fear God or the way that was made for us.

My name is Lynette...its great to meat you jonathan...via the internet.

reply to post by randomguy


1st Corinthians [14:34-35] writes, Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but [they are commanded] to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church."

You are divided, spiritual (WE) and created (I),
Let your created side keep silence,
but they are commanded to be under obedience,
as also said the law, (god is one, created without spirit is I without the WE)
ask their husbands, man = spirit, your spiritual side, your hearts,
they are one with god ( christ as one , but not namecalling as jesus, the son is the father, first as slave, after glorification as father )

this guy is correct on his way to make his truth full as one
the husband are more then jesus as the only son,
they are jesus as God, God is One, it means WE > growth > honesty.

God will always act as a son that is one with him,
it is jacobs stone with 7 eyes.
Christian as theology thinks God can only be there with one face,
when in reality becoming one in christ,
is becoming one with god himself,
because jesus was glorified as father,
not as himself, the person was first person, then became
one of the eyes of jacobs stone. Jesus is God, yes,
but that's why we search God. And God is truth.
Believers, are all the searchers of this world,
because they care.

angels to become.

[edit on 5-9-2009 by pasttheclouds]

reply to post by LeoVirgo


Lynette, you have a special family,
if you can debate like this, and on the internet.

Angels.

The weeks to come are special.

reply to post by randomguy


Random ..What I meant is....if you dont believe that Jesus is the son of God and that he came in the flesh and died etc and rose again ..then how can you believe anything else scripture says about him ?u wouldnt and in fact you would have to discard the entire bible .....because it says over and over again what Jesus did and why he did it and who he is and to what purpose it was all for .(very clearly ) ............

reply to post by badmedia

And then in hebrews, it changes into a "body", aka Jesus. From knowledge of god, from open ears, into a human sacrifice.

The writer of Hebrews seems to be taking some literary liberty here.
This is not a direct quote of Jesus from the Gospel. It seems more like an imagined conversation between Jesus and God that the writer puts into a context that the target audience would be familiar with.
I would think that Paul would have known better than to misapply the Old Testament verses as this writer did. It looks more like the work of a disciple of Paul who was familiar with his beliefs but may not have been so expert in the Jewish books. He probably had a familiarity with them that a pagan convert to Christianity would have had, being in the vicinity of the Apostles.
Though the writer mistakenly drew from an earlier writing that has a different context and application, he does get across the concept that Paul had about the superiority of Christ's sacrifice above the sacrificial system of the Law. The ordinances were of a temporary nature and did not put a complete end to sin. The fact that Jesus was an acceptable sacrifice implies that Jesus had all the qualities desired of a man that God wished for man, in general, to have. We should take all the meaning from this usage to know that there is an expectation concerning believers, that Jesus having taken away sin on a permanent basis, has freed us from it to develop those same attributes of Jesus that made him acceptable to God.

Originally posted by Simplynoone
reply to post by randomguy

 

Random ..What I meant is....if you dont believe that Jesus is the son of God and that he came in the flesh and died etc and rose again ..then how can you believe anything else scripture says about him ?u wouldnt and in fact you would have to discard the entire bible .....because it says over and over again what Jesus did and why he did it and who he is and to what purpose it was all for .(very clearly ) ............

How? Easy.

How do you know which of the following math equations is true and which is false?

1+1=2
4+5=9
5+3=12
9+10=19
4+1=15

By understanding. When you gain that understanding, then it's really in most cases as simple as that. I am not repeating 1+1=2 because a book told me, I am not repeating it because an authority figure told me it is true. I repeat it because based on my understanding I know it is a true expression.

A person can walk around repeating 1+1=2 all day long and be saying something that is true, but if they don't understand it then it means they don't understand math and repeating it as such isn't much use. However, if instead of repeating the statement, the person understands they are able to use that understanding to better their lives etc.

Thus why the bible says knowledge of the holy is understanding. Knowledge of math is understanding. Because knowledge of math is understanding, it is considered a universal language. And because knowledge of the holy is understanding, it is also just as universal.

What you are asking is - how can I(and others) accept parts of the bible and not to the others. And the reason is I haven't accepted any of it. I walked around for months talking about these things without even knowing the bible said them.

reply to post by randomguy


I can't vouch for everyone who claims to speak to god. So many people claim such a thing, and the majority of time it ends up just being "through the bible". And I know then that they are lieing.

I only watched the first bit of the movie, but all I heard was the bible line, and the repeating of the bible. Which to me signifies the above. I've heard the official story over and over.

God only ever spoke/asked me 1 single question. After that, all the understanding comes directly. God has never once told me from a state of authority this is this, that is that, do this, or do that. Not once.

Rather than the father telling me "1+1=2", he instead gave me understanding of math. Then, I knew for myself that 1+1=2 and that it is true. The father gave me understanding that it is not the 1's and 2's that are important, but rather the understanding behind those variables that they are used to express - that is their purpose, that is what is important.

And this applies to Jesus and all things.

People call the bible the word of god, and it is not. By them calling it the word of god, the elevate into being a replacement for that word. As if a personal relationship with the father consists of a personal bible reader or something.

Because of this mistake, their houses will fall. That doesn't mean the scripture has no value at all, but rather it is not in it's proper place. If it is not in it's proper place, then it is unable to do it's job properly.

If you build a house and you put the foundation above the roof, the house is going to fall down. Doesn't mean the foundation or the roof is bad/evil. It just means you didn't put them where they needed to be and they couldn't do their job. If you instead put things in their proper places, the roof above the foundation then both parts do their jobs perfectly.

Thus the problem with the pharisees who sit in the seat of Moses. They had elevated themselves into positions of authority, and that is a false authority. As such, things were not in their proper places and true understanding was lost.

Paul does this as well, and that is my true problem with him, rather than some of the things he says. I am taught that I shall never ever make myself into an authority figure. Just because Paul makes that mistake and is a Pharisee as a result, doesn't mean he doesn't say things which are true.

The reason authority figures are created is so that they will be accepted. That is also why they do good things for the eyes of men. So they will be accepted. But when a person accepts things, then they deny themselves true understanding.

Psalm 82

1God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.

2How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah.

3Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.

4Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.

5 They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.

6I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

7But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.

8Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.

See how that works? The father gives in terms of understanding, but the wicked want to be accepted and followed.

There is but 1 true teacher, 1 true master and that is the father. While the father is within me and others, the father is much greater than any single individual, or even the bulk of individuals. The whole is greater than the sum of it's parts(I cringe when I say, because people try to portion off a sum of parts and call it the whole with political agendas).

So when Paul goes and says things like I am your father, we await for adoption(has not experienced 2nd birth) and there are 1000's of teachers in Christ, and then goes to making appeals to worldly authority, I draw very very deep issue with him. Such statements are "anti-christ", and are direct contradictions to what Jesus said - let alone what I was taught by the father. They setup false authorities that are to be expected(and back in the day, you would be burned alive if you didn't).

Many replacements have been put in for spiritual things, so it's hard to say what people are really saying sometimes. Someone can say Jesus is truth, and I can agree with the expression. But when we get into understanding and such, then I realize we are not talking about the same thing.





[edit on 9/6/2009 by badmedia]

Originally posted by Simplynoone
reply to post by randomguy

 

Random ..What I meant is....if you dont believe that Jesus is the son of God and that he came in the flesh and died etc and rose again ..then how can you believe anything else scripture says about him ?u wouldnt and in fact you would have to discard the entire bible .....because it says over and over again what Jesus did and why he did it and who he is and to what purpose it was all for .(very clearly ) ............

Actually I do believe Jesus is the Son of God, or God himself (havent quite figured how that works yet).

But to answer to what you said:

Indeed, if you think one thing in the bible is wrong or made up then how do you know which what fact is reliable and what is not ...

As for discarding the entire bible, there are people who do belive certain scriptures are reliabe and onthhers are not.

it says over and over again what Jesus did and why he did it and who he is and to what purpose it was all for .(very clearly )

And it also says very clearly other things, why do so many christians overlook things such as:

Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them. Mark 11:24

I tell you with certainty, if anyone says to this mountain, "Be lifted up and thrown into the sea", if he doesn't doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Mark 11:23

16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that disbelieveth shall be condemned. 17 And these signs shall accompany them that believe: in my name shall they cast out demons; they shall speak with new tongues; 18 they shall take up serpents, and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall in no wise hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.(Mark 16)

Cool ha ?

The inly thing that Jesus says is required is this (maybe there are other things required, but this is the only one stated expressly):

25 And whensoever ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have aught against any one; that your Father also who is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses. 26 But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father who is in heaven forgive your trespasses.

[edit on 6-9-2009 by randomguy]

Simplynoone....we arent put here to find scriptures...we were put here to discover our inner most nature....and then this leads to the finding that our inner most nature is not of this world (flesh)...this in itself leads to the discovery there is something higher then us.

God can be found without a book.

Now with that said....there are wise things in books, through men that discovered walking with God/Holy Spirit.

But.....and this is huge....if that mans nature is not spiritual (inner most humbled nature)....then the info passed on will come with Earthly distortion.

So anything that gets passed from another to you....must then be tested and discerned by you....within your most inner core being.

We werent here to be saved....we were put here to rise above the body that seems obvious....we were put here to see through the obvious.

After the complications...it becomes simple.

Find your inner most humbled loving nature....and say hi to God. Say hi to the mind set that Jesus gained and walked in the flesh with this mind set.

We are capable of this and more. But the more part still has me baffled.

Why is it that you feel that God was supposed to leave the answers for us? In black and white to where all the simple men would see?

Holy things cant be given like that.

Just giving thoughts
LV

reply to post by badmedia


honesty learns u we all want to be accepted,
and we all desire much, even when we are happy with nothing
when we are happy with nothing we know in our hearts we
do it, partly because we prefer havingnothing, then taking away,
or because our taste is minimal in desire but even then
we need freedom and justification, if we are honest.

everyone of us wants justification, without it god would be not justified.

homosexuality as symbol :
man with a man, spirit with spirit, spirit= WE
it ignores the woman, the created, the I

honesty asks us to see the I as part of the WE,
if we make offers we do it for them, but including us,
because we NEED peace, we LOVE to give (selfconfirming too)
and desire everything, not to take,
but to be in peace.

our motor for others, is the motor for our own peace,
we feel we will be free, when everybody becomes free,
including ourselves, our I.

ignoring the I, makes us hypocrites.
parts of new age teaches to ignore the EGO,
when the pain of not having your desires to be free, to be loved (justified),
makes you grow, growing towards WE, only possible by seeing that desire and pain,
honesty will always allow you to see the WE,
because when not, honesty will make the I
to suffer until it sees it can't take from others,
what it doesn't require from the self.
freedom is in need for all to be free, justified,
or you would know you aren't really free,
by the logic that someone has to pay for what you
yourself didn't, it would mean you can not feel free,
because it is not absolute free, which means for all.

Ignorance is what really drives the ego,
because it ignores desires to fullfill false peace.

God is logic yes, search truth, search logic,,
the bible is indeed not our salvation, but contains its secrets
always keep an open mind to its truths and symbolism is my suggestion,
because how more logic grows, how more the bible
starts to integrate in that logic and ends up being correct,

you are right, test every spirit, everything, everyone
btw, angel means messenger, every truth in this life,
is an angel, every person who brings it is an angel,
it is old symbolism.
Most beliefs have two sides, because truth evolves as a step up,
if it makes you grow towards a higher truth it is an angel, or spirit
if it does the opposite, confirms ignorance, it becomes a demon.

before perfection there are almost only uncomplete truths and wrongs,
we all share in those, and progress is made
by the reflections and sorries we make every day.

take care !


[edit on 6-9-2009 by pasttheclouds]

I am done writing, my language is not made well,
and i shared everything the last weeks i have to share.
take care everybody, you can reach me for a while by u2u.
I dont ask you to believe me, but I need to share
what was prophesied is for now, these weeks.
We are humans, and we are equal, and equals are angels. because 1 = 1
give god all freedom, and he will give you this freedom back.
Truth in spirit will make your I give birth a son in One, us.
A virgin speaks from spirit, truth only found by honesty.

logic doesnt alow pain to be forever,
it doesnt allow hell to exsist except in this reality,
it needed to seperate functions as high and low,
to create a beliefsystem in time, but in logic,
time balances those differences out,
it doesn't allow truth to be divided without being one

Truth is one because it is absolute,
and when it is absolute,
it needs to be free, or it is a slave of a higher truth,
when it is one, it can not allow dividing without still being one.
And this is God. Not as every potential, but as every choice he makes.
Logic stops being a slave to itself. Falls from heaven and truth becomes free.
Paradox = believes had to be believed in their right time.
beliefs need carriers, slaves, truth is not made from atoms but from beliefs.
functional means optimal means destined.
choice counts double, removes part cross, slave is full.
choice allows choice to become nothing.
For his glory all our holy books speak.
Pain in heaven once forgotten, paradox in the pit before we saw,
but although out of one, also in, and fire forever remembered as out our sight.
No contradictions, even when we ignored our doubts or had contradicting thoughts.
Translations wrong, parts thrown out, in everything (god) everything inspired.

remember a god that is one does not judge,
repenting is releasing judgement by understanding (forgiveness)
A god that is truth likes to be searched in truth, not in any other name.
Choice as ignorance is what was called the sin against the spirit.
And it is still your part of god that judges itself.
God is a witness to Himself, by the son, 2 witnesses.
The sun is the son that becomes father as glorified.
Angels are the sons to become, the moon, the prince.
Stars falling from heaven towards the ground.
Two rivers , duality, angels bounded.
the son becomes perfect by fire until the seal of prophet written full.
Hands act given by, the heads intend. Seals written where they belong.
Ezekials temple, spiritual, coming down, building and offers going on.
Daniels words turned around, another god now know.
Waters are spirits, beliefs, a beast born from this.
Not all parts are countries, philosophies still wet. Religions counted.
Raining it is, starting a while ago, feel the waters, and reflect therein.
Raining the waters of this time in the manners of this time.
Jesus came were he was searched, truth likes to be invited. This place perfect.
Calendars based not on shadows but on what is behind those symbols.
Shadows to protect what is not in it's right time.
For some confirmation of interpretations not based on truth, logic.
As Enoch foresaw.

Love.

My time to make my return. jon.


[edit on 6-9-2009 by pasttheclouds]

reply to post by TangoVooDoo


Hello TangoVooDoo:

You of cource are right. I always ask God for his wisdom and guidance. Through his spirit I gain understanding and enlightenment.

Peace,
Grandma

Originally posted by Grandma
reply to post by TangoVooDoo

 

Hello TangoVooDoo:

You of cource are right. I always ask God for his wisdom and guidance. Through his spirit I gain understanding and enlightenment.

Peace,
Grandma

Hello Grandma,

It's refreshing to see the above post of yours as it reassures to me that you'll go to the Lord with this.

There are truths and then there is Truth. Truth is never created but rather discovered while truth (small t) is subjective. Gods Truth is always exclusive, never all inclusive.

If anyone claims that they speak directly to a "spirit" or get their truth from another source yet deny that Truth is Absolute is it not odd that they want ALL people to believe that their truth is correct, thus becoming an "absolute"?

Grandma, some Scripture that I always find encouraging when dealing with decisions is Proverbs 8. When you have a moment please read it.

God Bless

[edit on 7-9-2009 by TangoVooDoo]

reply to post by TangoVooDoo




TangoVooDoo....

I know you are coming from an honest heart. But you shouldn't pass judgment when you hardly know someone.

If my mother could tell you all the times we have both said the words...I dont know....would show you that we both feel we are forever students in the Spirit.

Your learning nor mine should ever become absolute.

I dont bring thoughts for others to take them as absolutes.

I tell my mother all the time....Go to God....ask of the Spirit.

I dont teach that truth comes from me....I pass on thoughts to get people to double check within themselvs that they are learning from the Spirit as we have been told to do.

We talk about all sorts of things....we talk alot about Egypt for example for it was a huge part of her visions. If neither of us feels any wise thoughts on a matter....we simply say I dont know.

It is true though that you wont hear many who say the Bible is the word of God but yet they learn from the Spirit.

My mother and I love discussing with others. We both believe that sharing experiences is something the world should do. Which is why we ever made a video to share in the first place. Before her experience we both made a vow to God that we would always share with others.

I am not disrespecting you backing my mom...not at all...please dont think that. Anyone who wants to stick up for her and likewise beliefs is someone that cares for her and I honor that. But you dont know me well....and I have never asked anyone to take me as truth or any belief as ever absolute. Jesus brought the truth...which is the way of the spiritual law of life....the Spirit.

Blessings
LV

Hello Everyone:

I am so sorry that I have not kept up with my thread like I should have. I have been feeling weak and not doing much but thinking. I am sorry that my daughter has had to step in and sometimes answer for me. And make no mistake Leo does KNOW WHAT I BELIEVE.

Lynette and I love to spend our morning when she comes over to helpme get dressed and out of my bed into my chair, this is our time to reflect on a thought, scripture, spiritual manners, or to challenge each other in our walk with the Heavenly Father. Make no mistake my daughter walks with God and his spirit is within her.

I believe that Jesus is the ONE true Son of the Living God, she does not, but she still knows Jesus and feels his spirit with her all the time. She has taught me that God is EVERYWHERE. He shows us his love through the beauty in nature. The trees sing a song of love as the wind blows through their branches and leaves. She has helped me see a closer relationship with the Father is possible if I so desire. I worship my Lord outside among his creations.

When I had my NDE it caused me to stop and re-evaluate my faith and what I believed. Lynette was the ONLY person who was with me as I was dieing. She lived with me through EGYPT, THE HUT, SEEING JESUS PLAYING WITH CHILDREN, ME BEING AT THE GATE, and so much more. I told her when taken off of the vent that was breathing for me that "It was so sad what happened in the garden." that it never should have happened that way. I told her "Lynette, we have to relearn everything." So you see this experience cannot just be forgotten. We talk about it many times to try to make sense out of what I saw and what I was told. I know this had a major impact on Lynette as she had been asking for a sign...and the LORD used me to show her his power and give her his sign.

I glory in the love and mercy of my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. It is truly a story that is greater then any other. And a personal spiritual relationship with the Father puts a spiritual song in my heart that never goes away and keeps me looking forward to the 2nd Coming of Christ.

I have read everyone's posts and I appreciate each and every one who responded.

Blessings to all in the name of our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ. The one true Son of the Living God!


Peace,
Grandma

Originally posted by LeoVirgo


TangoVooDoo....

I know you are coming from an honest heart. But you shouldn't pass judgment when you hardly know someone.

Thank you. Understand also that there is a difference between judging a person and judging their words or better their world view. I am judging what you have stated, your world view but not you as a person.

Originally posted by LeoVirgo

Your learning nor mine should ever become absolute.

I hope you can understand the question I am asking here in regards to your above statement. Do you believe that to be absolutely true?

You want people to believe you, that what you're expressing, experiencing and sharing is absolutely true. Scripture declares that Jesus is the atonement God wanted for the redemption of man yet this seems to offend you and you claim it is wrong to think this way because it is "earthly" and we must shed ourselves of earthly needs, wants and desires but that in itself is self-refuting. "I desire to have no earthly desires!"

Your "spirit guide" tells you that truth is all inclusive, there is no "one way" yet again you hold that my reading of Scripture is in error, as I believe you stated earlier along the lines of, "too literal" but if truth is not Absolute as you say then would not my view then be just as valid as yours? Yet how can it be that in my view people are saved by the shed blood of Christ Jesus and in your view they are not and have both of them right? Remember that if you claim I am in error then you are stating that Truth is in fact Absolute yet how can both of us be 100% right?

If you desire to live by "What's true or right for you may not be what's true or right for me" then we have another problem which is I can then say you're wrong and by your own words you would have to agree with me for if you disagree then you're stating that my view of truth is in fact wrong which again indicates that truth is Absolute.

Again your view is one of being spiritual, esoteric and based on what you FEEL is right. There is nothing objective about it therefore you can't ever be wrong.

reply to post by Grandma

If you were a true "seeker of knowledge" then you would have already come to the conclusion that religion exists to placate and relieve people of responsibility for their own lives. "truth" has to have evidence or there is now way to be sure that it is in fact truth.

Originally posted by superevoman
reply to post by Grandma

 

If you were a true "seeker of knowledge" then you would have already come to the conclusion that religion exists to placate and relieve people of responsibility for their own lives. "truth" has to have evidence or there is now way to be sure that it is in fact truth.

I'm confused here....are you stating that you know religion "exists to placate and relieve people of responsibility for their own lives" to be absolutely true?

If so, may I ask for the evidence?