The image of resistance?

firstly this has got to be one of the best threads ive read here in guite a while. Its a great read as people are debating their respective views in a civilialised mannor. I wish people here in Ireland could do that lol
Thanks Audas and Serbsta for your comments. I have to agree with Serbsta when said that the context of this photo dosnt matter here. In my last post i just tried to answer some of the questions that were asked- I didnt mean to offend any one with my opinion and insight into the situation. So just to clear a few things up

ALLINTHEMIND- The members of the PSNI can also be members of the Orange Order. Here is a Link which will clear this up for you.

www.psni.police.uk...

You then go on to say in your post that policing have moved on leaps and bounds since the Good Friday Agreement. This is in your opinion but now mine. MY opinion os that it has only changed in name (RUC-PSNI) and they also got a lovelly new uniform. Its still the same people under those clothes unfortunally. As for me joining them im sorry to say I will never swear an oath to a foreign country(England) and also never work hand in hand with murders and criminals. If you can do this then im sure Hugh Orde(PSNI Chief) would love to hear from you. Also im all for protesting as if we dont have the right to do this then what chance has humanity got?
Now as for violence at these i have to admit that they can become very violent. But as to put things straight the community have marshals if you like to stop the situation erupting. how it usually starts is maybe a couple of kids throwing a stone at the police and the marshals would confront the kids and tell them to move on or whatever as the people want to keep it peacefull as they know all to well what the police are capable of. The police then would react with excessive force and beat the men women and children with their battons etc. In MY opinion that is what exactly has happened in this photo.. Know as for me not understanding the situation. In Ireland now anyone who was born in the 80s or after cant really remember the troubles- I myself was born in the 80s and can only remember a few incidents. So because of this a lot of kids now are brought up getting taught to distrust or even hate the other side. Now this happens on both sides of the fence. fortunally i was brought up to respect a person no matter what colour their skin is are what they name their god or even their political beliefs. So once I was around 15 or 16 i started to take great interest in the recent history of Ireland and her Troubles. Im no scholar on the subject but have to admit im quite aware of what im talking about. As for me changing the situation I try to do my best. Im a part time cross community worker working with kids aged 15- 18. I try to educate the kids who are both catholic and protestant in their own backgrounds so that they can understand why there is fighting and also to try and teach them how important it is to have your own opinion as it is character defining and also social tolerance. We even take them on stays in America and other places to show them that there is a better way of life and it is possible for communities to live in peace beside each other.

Remember one thing - Terrorist is only a matter of opinion as a terrorist to you may be a freedom fighter to me.

I hope this answers so of your thoughts on the subject



[edit on 19-8-2009 by tnymccann]

[edit on 19-8-2009 by tnymccann]

Another fact of the orange order is that on many occasions when they march they are accompanied by colour parties from loyalist paramilitaries. These are the same groups who have even admitted murdering people solely based on their religion. Imagine that was a family member and they were walking down your street and singing about murdering people while all along the police are standing idly by??

As for your accusation of me being sectarian any1 who knows me would disagree with you there. Many of my friends are of different religions and of a different political persuasion than myself- even then would happily disagree with you bud. Again no offense intended and I wont get dragged into a name calling match. Best of luck and remember this quote from Martin Luther King;

"The more there are riots, the more repressive action will take place, and the more we face the danger of a right-wing takeover and eventually a fascist society"

Originally posted by detachedindividual
reply to post by noonebutme

 

You are completely missing the point.

The context is not what is being questioned here, don't immediately look for a side to take and ignore the message of the image itself!

What this image shows is a person deliberately expressing their defiance of oppression and force. They are expressing their will, their freedom and their rights.

The argument it was taken during is completely irrelevant.

Oh really!

If the police are trying to take an abused child off a family and the family are getting angry what does the picture then convey?

Of course the context matters!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Jesus!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I dont think that the original poster was focusing on the fact of the protesters cause. they were merely stating the way the picture made them felt about fighting against that poweres that be. I think that some people may have take it the wrong way and focused on the left and right when we should have been focusing on what was right in front of their face. some people look at the mona lisa and think it is a beautiful work of art and are inspired. I dont, and am not. But i think some people can take inspiration out of any photograph, and thats where the focus needs to be turned to.

That's a very powerful picture... But your wrong it speaks a universe of words.

reply to post by redfaction


Yes, thankyou! Thats the reason i posted this. I really do not think the context matters here, we are not choosing sides, we are not discussing who is wrong and who is right in this particular photograph. This is a representation of the time we are living in, and a very powerful one for that matter.

Just my personal interpretation

I cannot help but focus on the human face under the helmet and behind the face shield being highlighted by that pointing finger. A reminder that hiding beneath all that Orwellian garb does not excuse one from abandoning their basic humanity.
The pointing finger changes the question from why are the powers that be doing this? to why are YOU doing this?
Let political philosophers argue the merits of what may be happening but what is 'his' excuse as a human being to have chosen the side he has? Did he even consider the merits of either side of the argument or was he just following orders as the SS rank and file once claimed? Has he become an autobot for the state or is he still capable of independent thought? Does he truly believe the protesters are wrong or does he claim "that's not my job"?
In the military they are taught it is morally and legally wrong to obey an illegal order. Do police receive any such instructions?
Who was it who said we can always hire one half of the poor to kill the other half? When they come to beat you down and take away your freedoms who do you think will be behind those face shields? The rich?

It is an excellent poster to advertise that we ourselves are the thugs who will be used to keep us down.

I think it should be captioned "I see YOU!"

i understand that its does speak novels, instead of words. the one thing that i still havent heard anyone here mention at all is links to other pictures or videos that the mass media has put out. its out there we just need to look for it more. like i said earlier the best ive seen yet are the mtv holocaust videos and if you havent seen them you need to seriously take the two minutes and watch them on mtv. seriously that one really scares me. it does kinda of bother me that they focused on the jewish holocaust, but also on world wide genocide. i think that they might be laying it on thick. but the point in general is sharp and stabbing in its on right.

I've seen people like the one whos' pointing the finger. Killed someone in a park!

Well said sir,
I myself was born a Catholic in West Belfast in the early 70's and seen some quite horiffic things.
I never joined a terrorist organisation, but must admit to being tempted after Michael Stone said hello to Milltown cemetery.
Thankfully I had a group of friends about my same age who were more interested in girls and football! I am proud to say that no-one of that group of friends ever joined the paramilitaries.
At the height of the Troubles, we drank only in pubs in our own area. We NEVER went into Belfast city centre - if you were seen walking towards a Catholic estate, you were a target, and vice versa. Those illegal drinking dens made a fortune in them days!
The hatred we grew up with was really bad, on both sides. I have since moved to the country and must admit that tolerance towards different religions is fantastic.
Living in a close knit city definately stirs up hatred. It also dosen't help that the peace wall still seperates us in todays day and age.

A little story about the police....

You may or not know, but on the 11th July nite, Protestants across Northern Ireland light bonfires and party throughout the night.

As a young Catholic, we would try and spoil the party by sneaking into the estate the night before and setting fire to it. The reason being that it could not be rebuilt in time for the next evening.
One 10th night, we were apprehended by the lovely police service before we could light it. All got away except me - I was surrounded by male police officers whilst a woman policy officer was put into the middle with me and proceeded to knock seven shades of sh1te out of me with a baton........

Martin Dillon, the author, is a good place to start if you want a frank history of the Troubles.
He has done some excellent books on the subject.


[edit on 20-8-2009 by StevieC9]

reply to post by StevieC9


Dont think ive heard of him ill check him out. Ive had a few run ins with the police myself. ive even had the joy of being took a spin in the back of a land rover with 4 or so "well Trained " RUC/PSNI. I got to admit they were well trained alright- i was in pain from the moment i have the pleasure of their company to the moment I was let go lol. I was at milltown that day when Stone paid a visit- but i was so young I was still in a pram so I cant remember it at all. Its ocassions like that day that will never be forgot. Especially as the police helped him get away. I would recommend the viewing of this to anyone who has an interest in Irish history.

www.youtube.com...

You are all still missing the flipping point. This has nothing to do with protestants or catholics, this doesnt even have anything to do with ireland. it is the point of the picture. you are all looking way to deep into this, and you have ruined the original point that the poster was trying to make.

he was not saying anything about any one group in particular. he was showing a police officer, who was representing the government, and the civilian with a finger in his face as the oppressed. people use the picture of tiananmen square to show strength for fighting for the right cause, a sort of david and goliath theme. they dont sit there and look to deep into and talk for hours about the oppression of the chinese people. im not saying that, that isnt a worthy cause to speak of. i just think that the picture there made a bigger point around the world then the cause it was taken at.

Yeah I made the comments in my first post as people wanted to know more of the story thats all. I have to agree its an excellent photo!!!

Originally posted by redfaction
You are all still missing the flipping point. This has nothing to do with protestants or catholics, this doesnt even have anything to do with ireland. it is the point of the picture. you are all looking way to deep into this, and you have ruined the original point that the poster was trying to make.

he was not saying anything about any one group in particular. he was showing a police officer, who was representing the government, and the civilian with a finger in his face as the oppressed. people use the picture of tiananmen square to show strength for fighting for the right cause, a sort of david and goliath theme. they dont sit there and look to deep into and talk for hours about the oppression of the chinese people. im not saying that, that isnt a worthy cause to speak of. i just think that the picture there made a bigger point around the world then the cause it was taken at.

Well thankyou, i thought i did repeat myself about 5 times but you've summed it up nicely, im glad im not the only one seeing what the main intent of the image was.

Its purely symbolic, but very powerful, the context does not matter at all, we are not debating who is right or who is wrong, we are examining a photo which has two opposing symbolic standpoints, which i believe are very relevant for our times.