I am 23, an American Citizen with government run health care.

Originally posted by ohioriver
And I suppose you have 20,000 to pay for your surgeries that you can just whip out anytime.LOL The point I was making is I had private insurance. I paid my premiums. The private insurance companies are out of control with greedy execs finding any excuse to deny claims. What good is private insurance when they refuse to pay for anything? And it is an industry wide problem. I would suggest that Miss Pelosi will not forever be in her office.

A little honesty - you know that personal responsibility concept - is needed here.

"Bad Cramps" is not a disqualifying condition. There is much more to the story that you are not sharing, as is your right, but don't make it sound like the "EVIL" insurance company was out to get you and deny you for "bad cramps."

The average cost for a hysterectomy is $3000-$6000. No more cramps.

Not $20K, that was a big exaggeration.

The average cell phone bill annually is $1200, same for average cable bill, same for phone & internet bundles.

Cancel those services and you could easily save the $$ for your own health care & you'll also find that if you pay the bill yourself, without insurance, the costs are usually even lower.

Hospitals also offer payment plans for your bill if necessary.

So please, don't harp on bad cramps got you disqualified, that's simply BS, whatever it was, probably falls under that personal responsibility concept, and that means, to fix the problem, you have to be personally responsible.

reply to post by ohioriver

If we do nothing, everyone will pay more. Premiums will rise.

Government is not the solution.

reply to post by debunky


I don't think you can apply supply and demand to insurance..

reply to post by ohioriver


I don't quite understand where the $20,000 thing comes from. Are you unaware of cheaper, and often, better alternatives than what most premium healthcare offer? Often, paying out of pocket is much cheaper.

Further, nobody will deny you emergency care. It is against the law. Period. Even further, hospitals offer payment plans that are extremely reasonable.

www.creditcards.com...

The idea that you are damned if you do and damned if you don't is false.

Edited a sentence that started one way and ended another .

[edit on 15-8-2009 by Credge]

Originally posted by KnoxMSP

Originally posted by ohioriver



Hahahaha And while your at it tell them to stop eating and die ! How do you seriously think someone making minimum wage has any of those things. They can barely afford rent and utilities much less cable tv.

Okay, then get two jobs, further your education, whatever, it is your responsibility, no one elses. I am not college educated yet I am a sole provider. In the past I have done some of the hardest jobs in the world to make ends meet, it's all about personal responsibility.

Oh, and people making minimum wage deserve minimum wage IMHO. I made minimum wage when I was 14, and never again. Put in more effort, work as hard as you can, you can make it with determination and hard work.

That is just an unacceptable attitude to me. You honestly believe people aren't working hard enough? The economy has been bleeding jobs for a long time. The only ones left in poorer states are minimum wage jobs or those just barely above minimum wage. Food prices have shot through the roof. Gas prices too. And on top of that, we have bank defaults, auto bailouts. All those will be passed onto the backs of Americans as well. While I don't agree with everything in the health care bill, I do think it will do some good for everyone. Rich and poor.

reply to post by ohioriver


I don't see how everyone spending more money when everyone is already doing poorly is going to be good for everyone =\. That's almost like suggesting that having more bullets fired at you in a war zone will increase your odds of survival.

reply to post by Credge

I don't quite understand where the $20,000 thing comes from.

Everything cost $20,000 ... pregnant? 20k! .. ingrown toenail? 20k!

Are you unaware of cheaper, and often, better alternatives than what most premium healthcare offer? Often, paying out of pocket is much cheaper.

This is true.. I used to pay out the wazoo for allergy meds .. then tried some herbal teapot contraption and no more allergies.. cost me 15 bucks. It's people that get caught in this horrible cycle of

"I need a pill for my pain.. and a pill for my depression ... and a pill for the blood pressure caused by mixing those pills.. and a pill to lower my weight gains from the depression meds.. and pills for the anxiety .. and pills for taking so many pills..... oh God.. depression meds f** up my erection .. oh, pills for that too..."

It baffles me.

Originally posted by ohioriver
That is just an unacceptable attitude to me. You honestly believe people aren't working hard enough?

If they can't support themselves, then NO they are not working hard enough. Supprting yourself also includes having money SAVED in case of emergencies.

The economy has been bleeding jobs for a long time. The only ones left in poorer states are minimum wage jobs or those just barely above minimum wage. Food prices have shot through the roof. Gas prices too. And on top of that, we have bank defaults, auto bailouts. All those will be passed onto the backs of Americans as well. While I don't agree with everything in the health care bill, I do think it will do some good for everyone. Rich and poor.

Your example was of a person making min. wage to begin with, so what if they have to get 2 or even 3 min wage jobs? If that is what it takes to support yourself properly, then that is what you need to do.

Personal Responsibility

and you make absolutely no sense, after whining about the things already on the taxpayers back, that the taxpayer is already upset about (and fought against unsuccessfully) that you think MORE should be carried by taxpayers, in the form of "health care for everyone" (except congress & the pres - they have just added the Kennedy bill to the legislation that makes sure THEY keep their insurance, but we don't get that coverage)

Originally posted by Credge
reply to post by ohioriver

 

I don't quite understand where the $20,000 thing comes from. Are you unaware of cheaper, and often, better alternatives than what most premium healthcare offer? Often, paying out of pocket is much cheaper.

Further, nobody will deny you emergency care. It is against the law. Period. Even further, hospitals offer payment plans that are extremely reasonable.

www.creditcards.com...

The idea that you are damned if you do and damned if you don't is false.

Edited a sentence that started one way and ended another

.

[edit on 15-8-2009 by Credge]

Required surgery denied cause of pre-existing condition. 20,000 cost. For the most part unless you are rich, one is not going to be able to just whip out $20,000 and pay for a surgery that should have been covered by one's insurance company, as suggested by the poster. And when one goes to the hospital they only stabilize any emergency situations. They refer you to a doctor for further treatment. This is one of the main problems with our health care system. These same people keep going to the ER , get their condition stablized, repeat ad nauseum. This cause prices for everyone to go up. The sane thing to do is get these people to a doctor for treatment, and it will lower costs for everyone. And please keep those dirty credit card links to yourself. I have never had one nor would I ever want one. I believe they handicap people by giving them an excuse not to work and save their money for purchases.

Originally posted by redhatty

Hospitals also offer payment plans for your bill if necessary.

Good point!

My insurance a few years ago did not cover ER visits. Well I had to go, so I did, and found out I was responsible for it. The first bill I got was outrageous. So I called the hospital, and told them I was not going to be using insurance and was going to be paying out of pocket. They lowered the costs of everything, and gave me nice small payments that I can afford every month. They just want to get payed, and if they know there's not going to be a load of paperwork involved, and all this insurance B.S., they will give you a lower price.

Which brings me to my next idea. How about private care facilities who do not take insurance, medicare, or medicade? A cash only doctor. Would that not reduce the costs greatly, thus making it affordable to see a doctor without having health insurance, or a healthcare plan?

Originally posted by ohioriver
And please keep those dirty credit card links to yourself. I have never had one nor would I ever want one. I believe they handicap people by giving them an excuse not to work and save their money for purchases.

IF you had actually checked out the link, instead of judging it by the little bit you saw in the post, you would have learned that it gave quite a few good tips on how to save on medical bills AND even recommended NOT using a credit card to pay for medical costs.

jump to incorrect conclusions much?

reply to post by ohioriver


People should not have been living beyond their means. This society is tied up in credit, and the jobs related to that. People who cannot find jobs, cannot find the jobs they want, or the jobs that can provide their previous lifestyle choice. Maybe it's time for some mortgage brokers to build some houses.

Originally posted by redhatty

Originally posted by ohioriver
That is just an unacceptable attitude to me. You honestly believe people aren't working hard enough?

If they can't support themselves, then NO they are not working hard enough. Supprting yourself also includes having money SAVED in case of emergencies.

The economy has been bleeding jobs for a long time. The only ones left in poorer states are minimum wage jobs or those just barely above minimum wage. Food prices have shot through the roof. Gas prices too. And on top of that, we have bank defaults, auto bailouts. All those will be passed onto the backs of Americans as well. While I don't agree with everything in the health care bill, I do think it will do some good for everyone. Rich and poor.

Your example was of a person making min. wage to begin with, so what if they have to get 2 or even 3 min wage jobs? If that is what it takes to support yourself properly, then that is what you need to do.

Personal Responsibility

and you make absolutely no sense, after whining about the things already on the taxpayers back, that the taxpayer is already upset about (and fought against unsuccessfully) that you think MORE should be carried by taxpayers, in the form of "health care for everyone" (except congress & the pres - they have just added the Kennedy bill to the legislation that makes sure THEY keep their insurance, but we don't get that coverage)

Then enjoy paying continually higher premiums for your own insurance,while the lazy slack jawed poor just keep abusing the hospital system. (sarcasm) I am against alot of the things in this bill, but I do believe somethings gotta change. And you have that wrong. I don't believe we should provide healthcare for everyone. If someone is making oodles of money , then no they should not get it free. You do realize that you (as a taxpayer) have been giving the private insurance companies subsidies paid for on all our backs? We have done this for years and yet the insurance companies continually look for ways to screw people.

Originally posted by KnoxMSP
Which brings me to my next idea. How about private care facilities who do not take insurance, medicare, or medicade? A cash only doctor. Would that not reduce the costs greatly, thus making it affordable to see a doctor without having health insurance, or a healthcare plan?

YES IT WOULD!!!

In fact in other threads here on ATS there have been links to testimony of doctors that have opted out of Medicare/medicaid and private ins programs and gone to cash only, even choosing to give free care to those who can't afford care at all.

It greatly reduces their (doctors) costs to the patient.

a link provided on an earlier page in this thread, from the hoover.org (I think) discussed the savings for people who only have catastrophe (major med) coverage & a HSA. Paying cash for regular routine care, and only using insurance for unexpected major proceedures.

A HUGE savings in that process, but of course, the Insurance companies don't want you to know that, neither does this administration who is trying to shove this health care plan down our throats.

reply to post by redhatty


And on top of that, if people would stop suing doctors for every little thing trying to make a quick buck that too would greatly lower costs .. Doctors pay an extraordinary amount in insurance.

Originally posted by ohioriver
Then enjoy paying continually higher premiums for your own insurance,while the lazy slack jawed poor just keep abusing the hospital system. (sarcasm) I am against alot of the things in this bill, but I do believe somethings gotta change. And you have that wrong. I don't believe we should provide healthcare for everyone. If someone is making oodles of money , then no they should not get it free. You do realize that you (as a taxpayer) have been giving the private insurance companies subsidies paid for on all our backs? We have done this for years and yet the insurance companies continually look for ways to screw people.

I have not had a premium increase since I got my (family) major medical coverage. I do not pay for routine care coverage, I pay for that out of my own HSA, which is tax-exempt.

I worked in the medical field way too long to fall for the insurance coverage game. The average co-pay for a doctor's visit is $20. As a self-pay patient, my FULL PAYMENT is $40. I save both myself & the doctor money.

It doesn't take "oodles" of money to do as I have done, it just takes a little knowledge of your options and self-discipline to save money.

Originally posted by redhatty

Originally posted by ohioriver
And please keep those dirty credit card links to yourself. I have never had one nor would I ever want one. I believe they handicap people by giving them an excuse not to work and save their money for purchases.

IF you had actually checked out the link, instead of judging it by the little bit you saw in the post, you would have learned that it gave quite a few good tips on how to save on medical bills AND even recommended NOT using a credit card to pay for medical costs.

jump to incorrect conclusions much?

Nope I will not apologize for it. Run. Don't walk . Run from anything that has anything to do with credit cards. I do not need advice on my medical issue nor did I ask for it. I am just shocked by the cruel, inhumane treatment most on here would inflict to their fellow citizens. Pray that you should never find yourself in such dire circumstances. I know alot of people in crisis right now over health care issues and while we can all sit here and judge to hearts content, I am afraid in the end it is out of our hands as Congress will vote whichever way it likes, as always.

reply to post by Rockpuck



That's the one thing that bothered me about that. How do they get around the costs of malpractice insurance? Is there no legal waiver a patient could sign acknowledging that they do not hold the doctor responsible? I know it could open you up to possibly getting bad treatment, but isn't it our responsibility to determine who we want working on our health?

[edit on 15-8-2009 by KnoxMSP]

Originally posted by redhatty

Originally posted by ohioriver
Then enjoy paying continually higher premiums for your own insurance,while the lazy slack jawed poor just keep abusing the hospital system. (sarcasm) I am against alot of the things in this bill, but I do believe somethings gotta change. And you have that wrong. I don't believe we should provide healthcare for everyone. If someone is making oodles of money , then no they should not get it free. You do realize that you (as a taxpayer) have been giving the private insurance companies subsidies paid for on all our backs? We have done this for years and yet the insurance companies continually look for ways to screw people.

I have not had a premium increase since I got my (family) major medical coverage. I do not pay for routine care coverage, I pay for that out of my own HSA, which is tax-exempt.

I worked in the medical field way too long to fall for the insurance coverage game. The average co-pay for a doctor's visit is $20. As a self-pay patient, my FULL PAYMENT is $40. I save both myself & the doctor money.

It doesn't take "oodles" of money to do as I have done, it just takes a little knowledge of your options and self-discipline to save money.

Good to have $20 co-pay, unless your insurance company finds one thing to declare a pre-existing condition on. The minute you have an expensive condition watch out.

Can someone post a brief summary of the Kennedy bill? Post a link?

reply to post by redhatty


The HSA was Bush's greatest moment as President lol. It goes to pay for anything like copays to aspirin.

Sadly I have seen many, many people who have HSA's..... and never fund the account. I would ask "What the hell do you have an HSA for??" ... usually I would get a reply like "what does that stand for again?" lol..

Health Savings Account (for anyone that doesn't know)

It operates like an IRA

reply to post by KnoxMSP

 

As far as I know there is no way around it.. even assuming you develop a crafty form to get patients to sign (which few would sign) and they didn't have insurance, the possibility, even if it were the tiiinniest possibility they could get slapped with a lawsuit would financially destroy them.

Nope I will not apologize for it. Run. Don't walk . Run from anything that has anything to do with credit cards.

Once again.. responsibility. There is a responsible and irresponsible way of using Credit Cards.

What's the word of the day people?

Responsibility!

Now all I need is a nifty song to go with it..