I am 23, an American Citizen with government run health care.

reply to post by smarteye


Um. Where did I say that?

Healthcare is a right. NO ONE should have to pay 5k to have a child.

In Canada, I got to pick my own doctor. I can go to any hospital I want at anytime to get looked at.

Obama is giving you the 2 tier system, isn't he?

YOU CAN KEEP YOUR OWN INSURANCE AND DOCTOR!!
It's gonna pass and I'll congratulate him.


You guys need to watch SICKO again.

reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows


I suppose you didn't. I was pointing out that the current proposed plan is good for drug-makers.

Originally posted by Helmkat
reply to post by redhatty

 

Problem is you don't speak for everyone, you can only really speak for yourself. Maybe I don't like my tax dollars going to pay for F-22s, maybe I don't like to see my tax dollars going to cause X and Nation Y. If -I- don't like the way my taxes are used I let my elected representatives know in Washington and don't vote for them again if required but make no mistake when I do I do not empower my arguments with conjecture that I know how my neighbors want their tax dollars spent.

Another thing, I would of rather seen all -my- tax dollars spent on a good health care solution then the wars we are waging based on lies.

This man deserves a Pulitzer's Prize for this post.

I love how everyone is up in arms about being "FORCED TO PAY FOR THOSE WHO CAN'T PAY FOR THEMSELVS", but just fine with being forced to pay for their senator's new private jet, the most recent bomb that mangled innocent lives, or the militarys next conquest.

This says a lot about the mindset of the American majority.

I am 14 and I have government run health care to. I don't see why everyone is so scared about it.

I'm really shocked that redhatty hasn't admonished anyone for not having the good sense to prevent an emergency c section.

You cannot prepare for every single thing that is going to happen in life, and for those who have, I commend you.

My husband and I started off with a nice nest egg before we considered having a child. We decided to just have one, because we didn't feel we could afford two. We tried to cover every avenue before we jumped into our lives together, but you just cannot see everything coming. It's impossible to be THAT perfect.

My husband lost his job in ca. Then our apartment building was bought up by some big shot corporation that gave all residents 3 months to get out. It's just NOT that easy. Sure, I had money to get myself out of the mess, but money stretches so far. Not everyone is that lucky and sometimes compassion is the order of the day. I have no tolerance for hateful bitter people who think you need all your eggs in your basket 100% of the time. Life does not work that way.

Originally posted by paranoiaFTW
I am 14 and I have government run health care to. I don't see why everyone is so scared about it.

Ameerika hatzz de sozialzm11!!

reply to post by Blender


Helmkat & Blender,

You are creating a strawman argument.

When did I say I was okay with the war, the military industrial complex, new jets for congress, the bailout, the tarp, the patriot act and whatever else you want to throw out to deflect the subject???

As Rockpuck has said repeatedly, I (and rockpuck) are completely against the government stealing our money via taxes to finance programs we don't support.

We are being FORCED to pay for a multitude of bad choices made by a ton of people already.

Why should we have to shoulder even more of the burden?

When did it become acceptable to take from people who are living in a state of personal responsibility to give to whoever, whenever, the government decides?

There is no such thing as "bad financial luck" there is a lack of self discipline with money, or a lack of saving for a rainy day, or a choice to live beyond your means.

Wow, just...wow. I sincerely hope you never land in a situation to find out how unreal and out of touch this statement is.

Hmm. So what about Iraqi vets who are returning home to find themselves homeless... no money, out of work, etc. I guess they were irresponsible and they are leeches too? They didn't plan out their future so they should just suffer?

Originally posted by iamjesusphish
... I got hooked via pharmaceutical prescriptions... I love how your ignorance shines through. You are the problem in this country... did you miss the part that said I am a tax paying citizen?

You don't have to justify your prior addiction to anyone, and it is easy for some to judge you from a vacuum.

There are always serious issues surrounding most addictions and most of the time its not just because someone consciously decided to destroy their lives for the hell of it. Some times we fail our brothers and sisters and push them away when they need us the most.

I'm not one of those "throw everyone who made a mistake under the bus" Americans.
They are the real problem and they don't even know it.

Anyway, I'm glad you're doing well.

- Lee

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
It's funny a great number of individuals who have most likely never known what it is to be truly "down and out" think that they can cast such broadbased generalizations as "leeches" about people need and yet are unable to pay for health care. Ah well. Must be great to feed an inferiority complex.

Oh boy...here we go again...

Just for your information I got injured at work over a year ago on the left side of my upper nervous system. The nerves are injured, mostly on the thoracic area but it affects the shoulde area, forearm, arm, hand down to the fingers, but the left side of my neck has also been damaged apparently because it is also in pain. Because of this I am in pain everyday, not to mention that my left hand, forearm and arm, get swollen and red because of the injury.

I can't lift my left arm 30 degrees from my body without going into a lot of pain. I can't barely use my left arm/hand, and even without using it I still am in a lot of pain.

I was put on hydrocodone since the day of the injury, and hydrocodone used to help but it is very addictive and can cause a lot of damage if used too long, so I asked my doctors to put me on some other meds that won't have the side effects of hydrocodone.

I was also put on rehabilitation for the arm, but the physical therapist who was working to try to help me with my arm, as well as I asked the doctor to stop with the program because my arm/shoulder and handjust kept getting worse, and rehab did not work.

For 8 months now i have been on gabapentin, and methadone, but I don't use it as much as the doctors prescribed even though I am in a lot of pain.

I am waiting on works comp to authorize surgery that might, or might not help me get a semblance of my old life.

I have been working since I was 17 years old, and I am only 37, but I still don't want a Socialist healthcare which doesn't give a damn about elder Americans, and I don't demand for all other Americans to pay for my healthcare either.

Instead of demanding for regular Americans to pay for your healthcare, why don't you demand for employers to have longer healthcare and more "AFORDABLE" healthcare?...

The surgery I am waiting for might help me, or it might not. I was send to do something which my boss should have never sent me to do because I did not have proper training on the job I was sent to do, and the other engineers from my company who were working with me but had more experience were not concerned about safety and I paid for it.

This happens to a lot of Americans, but the awnser is not socialized healthcare.


[edit on 15-8-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
reply to post by smarteye

 

That's the whole problem with the healthcare "industry" is that it runs off market forces. It should be about people and not profit as doing otherwise is little more than extortion at it's worst.

[edit on 15-8-2009 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

everything done is for profit in one way or another. There is even proof Mother Theresa's not for profit clinics were less than "honest" with the recieved donated funds. People were dying from very basic illnesses like kidney infections, but you go ahead and find your utopia like deathbed. The whole idea of Government run healthcare makes them a profit, if you think they spend every penny they tax for their national health services you have a lot to learn.

reply to post by Asherah


they have health care through the VA. This topic is about health care, right?

I will be one of the first to admit that our .gov treats it's vets like crap, as I mentioned earlier in the thread, I am a Vet, I am well aware how bad the .gov treats us when they are "through" with us.

So let me ask you, how many of those homeless vets have you given food or shelter to? Or even just a couple bucks so they could eat? How many have you sat and talked with or offered to give a ride to the VA to?

Or is it just that you want the .gov to do it all, so you don't have to. So it doesn't have to affect you in an up close and personal way, but you can still have "righteous indignation" over the poor treatment others receive?

Originally posted by Asherah
Hmm. So what about Iraqi vets who are returning home to find themselves homeless... no money, out of work, etc. I guess they were irresponsible and they are leeches too? They didn't plan out their future so they should just suffer?

It's a damn shame, that's what it is. To bad it has nothing to do with the topic.

reply to post by CanadianDream420

YOU CAN KEEP YOUR OWN INSURANCE AND DOCTOR!!

...For how long? For the rich, most definitely .. for folks like me? A choice for a few years, which will then become to expensive and we will all be on Government subsidized plans..

How many Canadians come to America for treatment?

Americans go to Canada for cheap things like drugs and flu shots.. Canadians come to America for surgeries and operations..

And we all go to Mexico for dental care...

We definately need health reform, however with the current system we have we would have to start with Government reform; lobbying, kickbacks, subsidiaries, payoffs, etc. would need to be halted, congressmen and senators would find themselves with much less $$ to live on. Tighter regulations on insurance, pharmacutecal companies, banking, etc.

Then turn over health reform to Doctors who know much better than politicians what is needed and required for better health care. This in my opinion would be a better start. But only a start.

Just by looking at the size of the health reform bills shows that it has most likely been in the works for several years, and by looking back at the history of health insurance policies; raising premiums and declining coverage for the last couple of years; is a safe bet that they have been anticipating this and preparing for the fallout that is to come should the reform bill pass.

Reading this thread I have seen people go to the extreme on both sides, an some try to find a middle ground, all bring some great ideals, and opinions to the argument; Would be really great if we could start seeing some ideas on a health reform that we can pass up the line insead of blame, argument, accusations, and agreements on just what is wrong.

I gave some ideas, whether they are viable or not is up to debate.

Originally posted by smarteye

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by iamjesusphish
You have no idea and prove your ignorance... I got hooked via pharmaceutical prescriptions... I love how your ignorance shines through. You are the problem in this country... did you miss the part that said I am a tax paying citizen?

Ah, so it wasn't your choice to get hooked on drugs, it was all the fault of pharmaceutical companies...

Pharmaceutical companies have done a lot of harm, but people like you need to take PERSONAL RESPONSABILITY for YOUR actions instead of wanting to blame someone else all the time...

If you had enough money to get hooked on drugs, you had enough money to pay for insurance, but you decided instead to get addicted to drugs.

People become addicted to drugs everyday and everywhere. Who are you to judge that person isn't redeemable? Get real buddy. Your argument only deepens the divide.

doing drugs is by your own choise, if someone is forcing you then you must change friends and social settings by your own choise.

getting "clean" is something we the public cant force you to , it is something you your self must choose and live with otherwise you portrey something i would call a robot without will, determination or hope.

now why do people oppose free rehab for users, because its self afflicted stupidity that could have been avoided in the first place by being sober.

free rehab means free drugs so why quit, oh i forgot its by doctors orders....

the end

[edit on 15-8-2009 by zerbot565]

Healthcare is a right. As in, you have the right to not eat crap masquerading as food that will give you diabetes. You have the right to not smoke, this will not aggravate any existing respiratory or cardiac conditions you may have. You have the right to not purchase and consume alcohol. This will keep your kidneys and liver functioning.

You do not have the right to take my money, that I worked 2 jobs and 60 hours a week to feed my kids. Get it? Money is not a conjured up reflection of material wealth. It is the result of MY exchange of MY labor, for the ability to purchase goods and services. Because money is a representation of my labor, I can honestly say, without a doubt, that it does not belong to anyone but me. Not to the Government, not to Socialistic looters, not to you, not to anyone, but me.

Doctors and nurses do not exist to be your slaves. If you follow the train of thought that healthcare is a right, and by that right it must be cheap, you are, in effect, forcing people who spent nearly a decade of their lives in study, to serve you at a cost you decide. Just how many "good" doctors do you think are going to sign up for this?

Most illnesses are preventable. But it would require some responsibility on the part of society. Eating right, exercising, dropping bad habits, etc. But this is America, where 60% of everyone is Overweight. I bet more than 70% of them, say they have a thyroid problem. That it has nothing to do with the thirteen packs of ho-ho's they just shoved down their throat. Woe is me....... woe is me. It reminds me of a recent trip to the store......

The other day I went to Wal-Mart. Its pretty close to where I live. I picked up some bread, grabbed some cucumbers, a few peppers, and a box of mushrooms. I was gonna grill some Steaks I picked up the day before. I like to dice up vegetables, grill them, put some of my special sauce on them and use them like a garnish on top of the steak. Anyway...

I grabbed the things I wanted, and headed for the Checkout. In front of me was the most pathetic person I have ever seen. Morbidly obese. Lesions all over her skin. Constantly sighing. A real "woe is me" kind of person. The person in front of her was the same, only that one was sitting in a "rascal". One of those motorized carts. The first lady had Chips, fish sticks, about 4 dozen Oreo cookies. Some Cap'n Crunch, Doritos, a few cases of diet soda, and some "Skim Supreme" milk. She was wearing sandles. I could see her toes, they were turning black. A sure sign that diabetes was taking hold and about to claim most of her toes and probably a good chunk of her foot. Not one vegetable, not one piece of butchered meat. Everything she had was prepackaged crap designed to suck the life right out of any person. When she paid for it she busted out her "Oregon Trail" card. Yep, Food Stamps.

Not only did I buy Soda and cookies for this "starving" idiot, but everything she purchased will only make her Diabetes worse, which in turn, will cost me more. Since most people like her are on the Oregon Health Plan. Wonderful, I get to pay for a morbidly obese person to stay morbidly obese, I get to pay for that same person to make any and all existing medical conditions worse, which will cost me and the rest of society more in the long run.

The Person behind her was no different. Only she had a child with her. After she paid for her non nutritional pile of crap, her obese daughter with pattern baldness was asking loudly if they could pull some money out of their "Food Stamp money", to stop at McDonalds. The lady asked the cashier for 40 dollars, and the cashier gave her 40 dollars. I have no idea what costs 40 dollars at McDonalds, but I'm sure all of it went down both of their throats.

And you know what I did? Nothing. Their was nothing I could do. Except pay for all of those stupid people to suck the financial life out of me, and destroy their health in the process. In the coming years, I will see them at the Hospital I work at, and they will most likely complain then, that no one at the hospital is doing enough to take care of them.

That is what dependency does to people. God Bless Socialism.

I am living in the twilight zone.

[edit on 15-8-2009 by aravoth]

reply to post by Pappa_Bear


Please share your ideas.. that's one thing that's lacking in the health care debate.. no one is offering any form of alternative. The current plan was sprung us so fast that its almost like a "take it or leave it" option with the President setting "deadlines (which is so frikin unconstitutional it isn't even funny)

It's almost like they are distracting us from something....

Originally posted by redhatty
As Rockpuck has said repeatedly, I (and rockpuck) are completely against the government stealing our money via taxes to finance programs we don't support.

We are being FORCED to pay for a multitude of bad choices made by a ton of people already.

Why should we have to shoulder even more of the burden?

When did it become acceptable to take from people who are living in a state of personal responsibility to give to whoever, whenever, the government decides?

If my tax money were used to save the life of another human being... I wouldn't complain. I'd be cool with that. I am cool with that, because it does.

And you say you're against the government stealing your money via taxes to support programs you don't support.

Fundamentally then you don't support human life and are happy, through inaction, for innocent people to suffer and die because they don't have the cash to pay for health insurance. I don't know what prices are like in the US, but I imagine they're not cheap.