Missing ship may have secret cargo

reply to post by tezzajw


Actually a few of the twitters on #iranelection have consistently provided accurate and useful information that has been confirmed.

Certain bloggers have also done the same.

These aren't just the odd piece of gossip every weekend, information flow is consistent and people like Michael Ledeen obviously has contacts with insider knowledge.

Other bloggers from inside Iran are also providing consistent information that students who have travelled abroad to the UK from Iran have discussed and seen first-hand.

If you only attention to the odd snipets, then it's difficult to follow the situation. Yet it all adds together and becomes a more clear picture as time progresses.

[edit on 26-10-2009 by john124]

Click here for more information.

[SNIP]

I'd like to believe your claims about how you have inside knowledge of the Iranian uranium Black Market dealings, however every time I have asked you for something solid, you've not come through.

If it's only your personal opinion, then state it as such and I'll be happy with that. It's ok for you to think that you know Iran is quietly buying uranium on the Black Market, provided you're not prepared to claim it as fact?

Mod Edit: Removed off-topic remark.

[edit on 26-10-2009 by Gemwolf]

Originally posted by tezzajw
I'd like to believe your claims about how you have inside knowledge of the Iranian uranium Black Market dealings, however every time I have asked you for something solid, you've not come through.

If it's only your personal opinion, then state it as such and I'll be happy with that. It's ok for you to think that you know Iran is quietly buying uranium on the Black Market, provided you're not prepared to claim it as fact.

Look, I'd normally just dismiss your trollish rants. Members U2U me with "Right On, Brother" messages when I do make a stand against compulsive trolls.

You just don't read messages for their content. It's like some petty game where you look for any kind of hook to dismiss the content of a message by asking about the source - which you'll dismiss anyway.

I am willing with members who do ask legitimate questions, to look for a link somewhere. But when it's just going to be used as fodder for another tiresome attack, it's just pointless.

So one final time, in my final post to you - where is your information that counters what has been put forward so far? How do you know more than Iranians in touch with their fellow countrymen?


M

[edit on 26-10-2009 by mmiichael]

Originally posted by mmiichael
So one final time, in my final post to you - where is your information that counters what has been put forward so far? How do you know more than Iranians in touch with their fellow countrymen?

I don't know anything about the Iranians and I have never claimed to. I don't know if Iran is using the Black Market or not.

You are the one who has claimed intimate knowledge with Iranian bloggers and twitters, not me.

Michael is your contention that Iran is quietly buying uranium on the Black Market your opinion or are you stating it is fact?

If it is just your opinion, then fine... if you are claiming it as fact, then you'll need to prove it to maintain your credibility.

mmiichael the burden of proof is totally on your shoulders on the matter. Also twitter isn't a source worthy of any trust, anyone can write there anonymously. Same goes for many other 'sources' on the net, the word source needs some credibility to go with it.
I'd recommend reviewing this thread, we've gone to great lenghts about the case about iranian involvement. The likelyhood that they had anything to do with is minimal. I'd say that it would be more likely that it was canadian government smuggling polar bears.
Also quit with the personal remarks, those aren't doing your case any favors.

I'm sorry if I sound annoyed by now but this whole thing has nothing to do with Twitter, which was just mentioned as an insider source for information straight out of Iran.

Iran buying tainted uranium on the black market is not news for anyone following the ongoing saga. It just became more newsworthy in light of the secret mountain facility this week.

A quick check on Google shows a hundred references to it in articles from disparate sources. I always assume people have at least done a basic check on any story before passing judgement.

Here's just page 1 headers when I key in "Iran' "black market" "uranium"

Iran Agrees to Send Enriched Uranium to Russia - NYTimes.com
2 Oct 2009 ... Iran's uranium is enriched to about 3.5 to 5 percent, the officials ... Black Market Shows Iran Can Adapt to Sanctions (October 5, 2009) ...

www.nytimes.com/2009/10/02/world/middleeast/02nuke.html


IAEA says Iran received black market uranium documents ...
The UN atomic agency revealed today that Iran received black-market designs to encase weapons-grade uranium and diplomats said they appeared to be part of ...

www.breakingnews.ie/archives/flat.aspx?d=2005-11-18&as...


U.S. to Accuse Iran of Building Secret Nuke Plant - Iran | Map ...
25 Sep 2009 ... Iran revealed the existence of a covert uranium enrichment ... of a secret Iranian enrichment program built on black-market technology was ...

www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,555303,00.html


MI6 probes UK link to nuclear trade with Iran | UK news | The Observer
10 Jun 2007 ... A British company has been closed down after being caught in an apparent attempt to sell black-market weapons-grade uranium to Iran and ...

www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2007/jun/10/iran.nuclear


New Iran uranium enrichment site raises concerns - Yahoo! News
Iran's newly revealed uranium enrichment plant is a heavily guarded, ... decades old P-1 type centrifuges acquired on the black market and in use at Natanz. ...

news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090925/ap_on.../eu_nuclear_iran


Iranian opposition group says Tehran received black market nuclear ...
Equipped with black-market blueprints of a nuclear bomb and some ... Bomb-grade uranium in Iran Tehran says particles may have arrived via foreign supplier ...

www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-124852386.html


Iran introduces uranium gas in new-generation centrifuges, but in ...
13 Feb 2008 ... Iran introduces uranium gas in new-generation centrifuges, ... P1 centrifuges, outmoded machines acquired on the black market in the 1980s. ...

www.startribune.com/templates/Print_This_Story?sid...


Diplomats:IAEA tests on enriched uranium traces found inside Iran ...

Iran's contention that all traces of enriched uranium came into the country on "contaminated" black market equipment has been the focus of ...

www.democraticunderground.com/.../duboard.php?az...


Iran running second uranium enrichment facility - Telegraph

25 Sep 2009 ... Iran's Uranium Conversion Facility, just outside the city of Isfahan: ... Iranian enrichment program built on black market technology was ...

www.telegraph.co.uk/.../iran/.../Iran-running-second-uranium-enrichment-facility.html

[edit on 26-10-2009 by mmiichael]

reply to post by JacKatMtn


I think the "negotiations" could be related to this, posted some pages back in a link.

The Authority said it instructed the owner of the M/V Arctic Sea that the ship could not proceed to sea until any necessary repairs, surveys and certification were carried out and it was ascertained that the ship was in a seaworthy condition.

"With reference to claims in the press that the ship was due to be handed over to the Maltese Authorities, Malta as the flag State of the ship, has always maintained that it has no right to assume the ownership of the ship since it is not the rightful owner of the ship and therefore the ship should be handed over to the shipowner as the rightfUL owner of the ship," the MMA said.

Source

Apparently the owners are not interested in getting the ship back, but Malta just gives the licences and do not want the ship either.

I do think that even good media sources are often speculative, and you often have to cut your way through the journalistic chaff to find any substance. Iran and Russia already have an agreement for Russia to supply fuel to Iran on the guarantee that the spent fuel is returned to Russia, so i'll speculate that there is plenty of scope for Iran to cream off some of it. Actually it's very kind of Russia to take back the nasty stuff no doubt they would have a use for it elsewhere.

www.chinadaily.com.cn...

You will see also in this report from 2005 that the "secret" facilities were well known back then.

This second link is from 2003. It deals with the realities of Iran being able to reprocess the depleted fuel and acknowledges the need for hidden facilities, (probably known then also)

www.iranwatch.org...

Iran may well have used the black market in the past, but I think that time is past.
If Iran does want to produce nuclear weapons then they will be on the first step with a reactor up and running.

reply to post by ArMaP
Must have a look and see who actually is the rightful owner, the Solchart Agency does not appear to be the owner, although some affiliated company with a similar name could.

I found this,

"The Arctic Sea is primarily owned by a Malta-based company, Arctic Sea Ltd., belonging to a Finnish company Oy White Sea Ltd. [3] This company is owned and run by Victor Matveev (Viktor Matvejev), a Russian citizen living in Finland. [4] Matveev is also the CEO and a major shareholder of Oy Solchart Management Ab, a Finnish company that manages the Arctic Sea's cargo operations and has a subsidiary Solchart Arkhangelsk Ltd in Russia "
If this is correct, then the Arctic Sea belongs to the Maltese company. So they don't want it and their Finnish affiliates don't want it. What is it that everyone doesn't want!






[edit on 26-10-2009 by smurfy]

An ongoing problem for Iran is that with embargoes on their imports enforced, they have tried to piece together systems interconnecting non-standard equipment and devices.

The US, Israel, Europe keep restrictions on certain exports like parts. Some slip through going via Jordan, Abu Dhabi, even by mail.

But Iranians who worked on various aspects now living elsewhere report consistent problems with Russian manufactured parts and compatability issues.

There may have been an overhaul, but they were stuck with a lot of infrastructure already in place that is problematic.


Mike

Yet another company is named as the Arctic Seas's owner called Aquachart, but if you look at their website, you will see they are just another agency and most likely affiliated to Solchart et al. They don't claim any ownerships but only management services, and I can't see a mention of the Arctic Sea anyway.

www.aquachart.lv...

Now for some questions,
A big Russian fleet sent to find Arctic Sea..which was never missing,
Answer= rubbish story as to the outcome.
Gazprom, a state owned Russian company has offices in Algeria. Executve of Gazprom is/was Dmitri Medvedev Russian President.
Answer= ?

reply to post by smurfy

What is it that everyone doesn't want!

Liability!

They do not want to be held liable for whatever was on that boat, for having a role in transporting whatever was on that boat, for having anything to do whatsoever with ...

because whatever was on that boat was something much more controversial than just wood.

I guess I am just stating the obvious; although we still do not know exactly what that extra cargo was.

reply to post by smurfy

From what I have seen, it looks like the "system" works this way:

1 - Someone creates a company in Malta
2 - They buy and register a ship in Malta
3 - They change the ship's name to the same as the company name
4 - They create another company to manage the ship's operations
5 - If the same person(s) want to use another ship they make another company and repeat the steps.

I was thinking about the double boarding situation and the contacting of swedish authorities and thought of a scenario that would explain that. This is all pure fiction and there's no proof to this but I couldn't come up with anything else that would explain that.
Here's how it goes: Ship sails from Pietarsaari when a bunch of bad guys board it. Wheter it is pirates or mafia or something else. No idea why or wheter there was dangerous cargo onboard at any point. Somehow the ships crew ends up over powering them which leaves the ship with a bunch of dead bad guys. After that they contact the swedish government and now good guys board. What they find is a mess, first of all they have to confirm that the original crewmen are who they say they are. Taking finger prints and dna evidence doesn't happen like magic in tv and takes alot time and work. Any real life csi work is very slow. What really happened, who knows, my guess is that it was the ship cook, Casey Ryback former spetznaz who killed all bad guys Shipmates of course wont rat on him because he saved them all.

Apologies if some of the material has been posted already, however this is a new link, and with info I hadn't seen before. Two items in the link, the timber is not hardwood it is pine, and hidden under the pine there was a launch, (does that make the original hi-jack story more plausible?) If the Pine story is true, then the wood cargo would hardly be worth the trip in the first place,

edjayepstein.blogspot.com...

Here, is a second link which describes how the Arctic Sea "disappears" on a regular basis, and for as long as. It seems it is a regular occurance as far as tracking any ship is concerned. The item about Kaliningrad contained here could probably be ignored since there is purported to be substantial arms of all sorts in Kaliningrad itself,

johnhelmer.net...



[edit on 6-11-2009 by smurfy]

Latest article regarding the Arctic Sea -- 'Lost' Arctic Sea Crew Recalls 24-Day Hijacking

Well, are we now all satisfied? Sometimes it is the mundane that turns out to be true.

I wonder , tho, how the alleged "pirates" were able to handle the ship and sail it themselves with the crew all tied up??

The story makes the ringleader appear desperate enough to do anything; but the ridiculousness of such a venture is just too much to ignore.

Maybe he thought if tribesmen/fishermen off Somalia could do it, then they could to.

To me this story still has a bad smell to it.