America Won the Vietnam War ! - Yes you heard right.

reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi


Trust me, your "mad survival skillz" mean absolutely dick when it comes to combat. It's nothing like what you think it's going to be like.

haha, you people misunderstand what I meant by "worthless". I meant I am worthless as a civilian. To survive here, I need a job. I've busted ass to find a job, even one requiring the most basic of labour, but nobody will hire me. Take it from me, local employment programs, and many others who have tried to get a job just like me: The only thing stopping people from getting jobs they need is because of the predjudice of the people who they apply to work for.

So to make it simple, I am saying I am worthless because I am not civilian material. I do not care about this mundane BS, material possessions and worthless money. The only talent I have is with guns and survival. I was built and raised to join the military and it's what I'm going to do.

SLAYER69- I have army testing in a few days, I see no obstacles. Mind you that I am only 19 so this is only the start of my career... I would've joined years ago but my high school lead me on believing that they would give me the education I was entitled too if I sacrificed my time and effort for it, but of course those corrupt bastards screwed me over and I spent a year drinking and smoking dope everyday just trying to figure out my purpose.

I am quite aware of my situation, I have been waiting for it my entire life and I live for nothing else. Sorry to turn this thread on its side, I just hate to leave questions left unanswered.

Ya right. That was my war and if you think we won it, you weren't there!

Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
haha, you people misunderstand what I meant by "worthless". I meant I am worthless as a civilian. To survive here, I need a job. I've busted ass to find a job, even one requiring the most basic of labour, but nobody will hire me. Take it from me, local employment programs, and many others who have tried to get a job just like me: The only thing stopping people from getting jobs they need is because of the predjudice of the people who they apply to work for.

I appreciate what you're saying. Before you sign on the dotted line tell your family and friends to stop buying Chinese.

[look on the label ] It's important!!


If you want a job.....

Stop forking over all your cash

Just a thought........

[edit on 7-9-2009 by SLAYER69]

reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi


So you haven't got a job! Big deal. . . Join the club. You're not the only 19 year old who finds themselves at a loose end because they can't find work. Like Slayer says, if you're joining the forces because it's what you want and have dreamed of fine, go ahead, just keep your head down and don't be a hero. If you're joining up because you don't see an alternative then take a deep breath and think again. Take it from someone who has been face down in the mud while bullets whizzed by overhead- the romance and pride of fighting for your country soon loses it's appeal when your facing death in the face. And I was younger than you.. .
Why not give it another year? Who knows what you will find in the job market in those twelve months?
Please don't make the decision to sign up lightly!!! I truly admire your guts and self belief in your own abilities but when the sh*t hits the fan they wont amount to a hill of beans.

SLAYER69- I appreciate what you're saying. Before you sign on the dotted line tell your family and friends to stop buying Chinese. [look on the label ] It's important!! If you want a job..... Stop forking over all your cash Just a thought........

I don't even know what you mean by that. We buy only what we need and we make sure it is effective, regardless if it was made in China, Russia, Canada or even the US. Secondly I don't have money, I never will have any significant amount of money and as far as I am concerned, money is false power. When it comes down to it, a piece of paper or a chunk of metal isn't going to save anyone if they needed saving, and the world needs saving.

Like I said before, I have a good idea of how the US works and I live the Canadian experience, and they aren't even close. Just because we border each other doesn't mean we are the same people with same culture. We are much more individualistic, mostly because we have such a small population to country size ratio. Plus our social systems serve us well, unlike what American attack ads claim.

Please don't make the decision to sign up lightly!!! I truly admire your guts and self belief in your own abilities but when the sh*t hits the fan they wont amount to a hill of beans.

I think you're assuming the wrong things, dude. Maybe if I was some good, God-fearing city boy virgin you might make a point, but I am the polar opposite. My family is a military family, and it is simply my time to step up and do what I was raised to do (and the only thing that I want to do). The fact that I already have experience is a bonus that will work to my favor.

I'm not even gonna bother reading any other posts in this thread after reading the OP, wrong, so very very wrong, when people start dying everyones a loser, the families of the dead, the dead, the people who did the killing, those who took part, whether by choice or not, they still have to live with the fact.


In actual winning // losing sense, America lost the Vietnam war, the vietnamese just threw more people in, it was there country after all, coupled with the bombs // napalm, helicopters, military might of America, of course their casualtys were gonna be high, but those high casualtys drove America out, and the families of the American servicemen // woman who died and the families of the vietnamese who died had to suffer, the people who were left crippled or horribly disfigured had to suffer, the people who were left emotionally scarred had to suffer. To the poster of this thread, you are a bad person for even trying to claim America won that stupid pointless war based on casualties, now go to bed without your supper.

Point 1: U.S. Forces won every single battle we fought in Viet Nam. Let me emphasize: EVERY SINGLE BATTLE.
Point 2: We did not lose the war. We quit fighting.

Everything else concerning that particular conflict is irrelevant, including Jane Fonda and all the knee-jerk reactionaries who claim that every conflict we enter will be "another Viet Nam".

And to those who served-well done, and welcome home.

Originally posted by KneonKnight
Point 1: U.S. Forces won every single battle we fought in Viet Nam. Let me emphasize: EVERY SINGLE BATTLE.
Point 2: We did not lose the war. We quit fighting.
Everything else concerning that particular conflict is irrelevant, including Jane Fonda and all the knee-jerk reactionaries who claim that every conflict we enter will be "another Viet Nam". And to those who served-well done, and welcome home.

Once again, a picture of Kneonknight's America not losing the war:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/ed029b20ed3f.gif[/atsimg]

...and I would remind this poster that by denying the obvious, one is doomed to do it all over again.

If we "won" the Vietnam war, it didn't happen during our stay there. But rather sometime after... Let's say 1979. Nothing to do with casualties or other costs of conflict, but rather something about the mindset of the people. Something about finally geting some degree of national independence and wanting to keep it.

Yeah, you think communist Vietnam would be all hunky-dory and cooperative with communist China after all that help. But guess what?

Vietnam was all like... GET OUT!!!

Interesting piece of history...
Sino-Vietnamese War (Wikipedia)

My suspicions are that the group that wanted independence from foreign influence for Vietnam turned commie as a matter of convienience. To rally assistance in order to kick out the French, and then use that same support to kick out us Americans for the same reason. I'm sure they had their reasons, and probably saw the southern half as way too soft to foreign demands. But then once it turned around the other way, they're pretty much "Ah-ah... Not you either." And at that time they're well armed and experienced enough to take care of their own business. (And Russians were stirring things up too, despite having supposedly similar idealogy to China. They were all commies, right? So maybe it was a Russian win? But what did they get?)

After all that, how Vietnam appears to be these days it doesn't seem like they turned out too bad for it. (Although unfortunate neigbors Cambodia and Laos were probably made whipping boys for a good while after because their foreigner friends.) Now they're all about commerce and making a buck (and off of us dumb foreigners!) and growing some kind of middle class, just like their neighbors. So putting most of that past behind them and being good neigbors seems like the smart thing to do. The only thing that might rile them up now are areas involving coastal oil finds and fishing rights. And even then, they're more likely to be diplomatic about it.

Hey guys, lets form a platoon out of people like the OP here, send them to serve in Iraq or Afghanistan and make a reality show out of it. Not only will it provide that badly needed "reality slap" in the face to others like them, but I also think that the ratings will be well through the roof...heck, I might even start watching TV again.

Regards,
Maestro

reply to post by maestro46[/url]

Yup! Couldn't agree more!

However, where I don't agree with you, is 'the slap'.

Very hard to slap somebody's face with a rifle butt.

Hi ! I'm Vietnamese...
And I don't agree with master of topic...
We should believe... Vietnam won America...
By intelligent... by courage and solidarity...
Vietnam has been won...

[edit on 28-6-2010 by waynos]

reply to post by esecallum


A very interesting view on war.

A great insight into how the elite think.

reply to post by esecallum


if u come to my town and kill 120 people and i kill 119 of ur people but i force u out of my territory = I WIN

reply to post by esecallum


My friend you need to take your thinking processes a couple of stages further. You need to consider at least more than one variable when you are musing and you need to develop the skill of finding possible multiple outcomes for the ideas you consider.

You just shotoff half cocked with a silly post. The Vietnamese believe they won the Vietnam War because they made the US leave their country. People tend to think their land is sacred and will sacrifice any amount of lives for victory.

Originally posted by esecallum
In fact America by this definition has won every single war because we kill more.

We always kill more.

When you redefine winning by body count America always wins.

Always.

[edit on 12-8-2009 by esecallum]

Yes America does always kill more, and if that is something to be proud of I feel for you.

I am a veteran of the war in Vietnam. I must admit to a series of reactions to the original post, varying from disbelief, anger, wondering whether it is a hoax - or a troll, or just plain ignorance of reality, and ignorance of politics and the cultural priorities of that part of the world and how they differ from ours.

The closest I have ever come across anything similar to the above is the assertion that "we won all the battles, but lost the war", or "we accomplished our goal of assuring the russians we would fight any conflict to stop the spread of Communism"... Slightly more accurate, but still excuses.

We were caught up in someone else's Civil War. The loses of almost 60,000 Americans were too much for us, too high a price, everyone a man with a family. In contrast, several million Vietnamese died in the conflict during the American phase of this war. A war that we took over from the French, and Vietnam were not near giving up.

Those who consider themselves students of this conflict already know that it is an extension of ww2 and significiant blame can be laid at the foot of French colonialism and their stubborn reluctance to give it up, unlike almost all other combatants of that war that did give up their overseas possessions.

US military history is similar to that of ancient Egypt, neither record the losses. Often accompanied by excuses for each of those conflicts whether they be Vietnam, the war of 1812/13 and our own civil war.

To use your logic of "the combatant with the higher death toll is the loser", how would you classify the US Civil War? You would have to say that the US lost the civil war, due to the number of American dead. Over 600,000 dead.

Actually, specifically referring to that conflict, the South won according to you, as they suffered fewer losses. So you are wrong on the face of it. Unless you contend that the South won the Civil War and that we now live in the CSA.

My pops was a South Vietnamese Officer. The war could have been won, but the Americans were arrogant pricks and it cost them the war. First the CIA killed the South Vietnamese president, someone who the people would have followed to the death. But when he was dead, everything crumble because there was no real leadership after him.

My dad also said the Americans were idiots because they would get picked off real easy. They tend to take the roads and it was booby trapped and they got jacked up. They only thing the did well was kill civilians and bomb the sh17 out random towns that's why there is a major diffence in the death tolls If they would only fought side by side with the South Vietnamese army like Afganistan they would have a better chance in winning the war, but instead they thought they can take out the North by themselves and it came back to haunt them.