The Death of the City, The 2nd American Revolution

reply to post by tatersalad


That's actually EXTREMELY valid

Service...

another thing that will HAVE to happen and will affect small towns as well as cities is that... like Unions for labor back in the day Service Employees will need to be given a quality of life boost or things will remain fudge

Service I sort of group into communication despite a major distinction in action... it's person to person work, you have to be social mostly ...

And Service is treated like poop

Ever heard the expression "Service to Others"

It's a huge foundation of a society in this day and age (any time really) and it is...your right it's treated terribly

The Service Industry needs to be treated with respect before we can possibly pull out of this nonsense

reply to post by fleabit


Sure some cities... will evolve others won't...

Your dead on...

DENVER is doing great and will be one of the best if not the best in the country


But remember I'm talking about today and tomorrow not yesterday, where it is going... not where it is yet or where it was...

Right now... most small towns DON'T have hospitals and UNIVERSITIES, there is crime, there is a back bone of people who lakc modern era skills in many fo them...

there are SOME small towns like mine that are Modern small towns...

This is what other small towns need to become to deal and this is what some small towns currently are...

Not Most

Not Yet

leaving the cities and moving in this direction is what i'm talking about...

Like I mentioned my ex got a real nice house for 60 g in a town of 5,000 (or is about to actually)

SHE works the internet.... the town lacks allot, there is more crime there than here with 60,000 people, there is no hospital she has to drive an hr to by me to go to school...

BUT... SHE works on the net in that town and can buy a house with no actual job...

People are doing this, that money will with enough people like her build the services that will make it what it will become...

Just like

Onkly 2 states actually had industry and accounted for 90% of the money in the USA prior to The Civil War

That is the example

Sure

If I wrote this in 1858

people all over the USA would say... "Your crazy... factories... the city"

But 10 years later that was the whole US economy practically...everywhere

It's not what all small towns are, it's what they Now can and need and will and all ready are becoming

If your reading this and you are in a small town... ANYWHERE p'o'd unemployed etc...

Thinking i'm nuts...

I'll bet you one of my nuts, right now within a mile of you Someone is on the porch working on a laptop and doing just fine unbeknown to you

Absolutely fantastic thread! S&F for you, my friend!

In response to OP's mentioning of the city being one of the sources of a rising problem:

I actually don't think it's the city itself that's the problem, it's what we've done to the concept of the city that's hurting us. Long ago, big cities were large collections of neighbourhoods with a central location that acted as a bit of a cultural hub. Each neighbourhood was really no different from a small town as it had its own business centre, its own green space, and people knew everyone else in the neighbourhood. Basically take the idea of a small town and arrange other small towns adjacent to it, and give each town some special service or feature that cannot efficiently serve just one town but can serve a collection of towns.

With the invention of the automobile and the rise of its popularity in the post-war era, combined with a post-war desire to start over again, the very elements of what made a city work were destroyed. Neighbourhoods were split in half by interstates, businesses demolished for cars. With the car, the supermarket could thrive, and the idea of a local store for anything became inefficient. People could move further away and have their own green space, neglecting the idea of a common green space, and still efficiently shop, play, and work further away as a result of the car. Eventually with the failing of the neighbourhood in favour of the get-it-all-in-one-stop supermarkets and malls, we have reached a point where we depend on the automobile and upon oil to live at all. Remnants of neighbourhoods still exist to a point in inner cities but are far removed from what they once were, and suburbs often don't have any concept of a neighbourhood at all.

The small town has become a victor in this regard because the small town was and still is its own neighbourhood by itself, with no others near it to demand efficiency. The local shops still work because it is efficient to do so, there are no other nearby neighbourhoods to demand building a mall in an ocean of parking. People still know each other by name. Consolidation has destroyed the big city, whereas the small town has no reason to consolidate.

I think what really needs to happen is for cities to focus upon the neighbourhood again, but will that ever happen?

And I apologise if I'm repeating anything already mentioned, as a new user it is a bit daunting to read through the entirety of these topics, so I have not read each post in this thread.

reply to post by perseid


No... don't apologize it's a point worth repeating

I agree fundamentally with everything you are saying.

I would still however say those things were caused by excessive population beyond what could be maintained with modern methods...

i.e. NY with 2 Million less residents in total would be the most amazing place to live...

The concept was I suppose that density increases land value and people would not be able to afford and the pop would stabilize...

But the reality, people find a way to afford work 2 jobs, back bite commute 2 hrs

Because Until NOW

there simply was no other way to make money rural mostly...

The Internet has changed all that... it's people who simply don't want to change the way they work, despite the fact that once you conquer the learning curve it's easier and better as a way of life...

personally i'd rather earn 1,500 a month off a blog while I learn and live in a trailer but have no boss, no commute, be at home, no risk of being fired... no dependence on the system and be poor going up 20.00 a month while I do it...

Than take a job... and make 40 G and get raises yearly that are less than the rate of inflation

one way in ten years... i'll be well of another, i'm doomed especially in a major city

I'd love to know

what Ats made month 1 and makes this month a decade later (they will never tell) but you can look on the net and get examples from other sites and projects it's a nice life...

Most people would choose to work while a site grows...of course

I'm just saying do something now, not when you end up in tent city...

If you lose your job 300 a month even coming in off a website residual might actually put you out of your tent in a few months...

This is all ridiculous

they did chop up the cities they had to, the roads had to get those people to work, the sewers had to pump the poop... it all consumes space...

and now

what are people doing... they don't know better they are going, literally into tents waiting for jobs to appear

and they aren't going to... not in any meaningful way, the industrial era is over...

despite all people still hover and remain to the cities, it will be their undoing if they keep it up.

The cities will survive, but they are going to need to be restructured, as tourist destinations cultural centers, open spaces made, vertical farms built... it will be a long stretch here...

and it wont be comfortable

reply to post by mopusvindictus


3 million??? i said 5 million families, 16-20 million people, and thats if its 5%.
What if its 7%? 10%? or 15%? now the figures do go crazy.
the tent cities have already started, its not a matter of if, but when?

Strange that Swine flu recently hit the world,what are the consequencies?is this a solution to a major problem?

i don,t know how this is going to affect the whole world, USA was always the no. 1 country, can this be really happening?
people are really concerned for the outcome,which direction do we go? this ain,t scare tactics, its making positive decisions, for us and ours,
world leaders are doing their best for a solution, never before has this happened on such a massive scale,
we are being fed info from the media that all is normal as usual??? to stop panic.
There are too many concerns at the moment,Global warming,world recession,
Mass unemployment, floods, earthquakes, food shortages,hurricanes,wars, diseases, more countries going nuclear,family collapse, drug problems , alcohol abuse, the end times are supposed to be worse than the times of Noah, can it get much worse than this?we cannot even sort out our own problems let alone our neighbours.
Maybe NWO is needed to sort these problems out.

Originally posted by mopusvindictus
reply to post by mike dangerously

 

Well like I said, this wouldn't be viable in terms of a life, even 15 years ago here in the states...

let alone during that whole fiasco

But I'm not presenting it just from a view point of me being happier...

I'm taking it as there is genuine intent, conspiracy if you will behind the entire thing, the Military's invention of the Internet...

I believe the city Can't sustain itself anymore... and that the intent is to decentralize the economy and people for Military reasons and for economic reasons and for environmental reasons

and that they did the same thing during and post the Civil War

I just think there's no fighting the situation, that the decisions were made based on trends in technology and demographics... they just push it faster by these mechanisms

I agree with you that the cities have reached the point of being unlivable,while all these tele-commuting seem like a viable answer.It's still a system that can be manipulated just like the idea of having us vote on issues via online, polls are rigged all the time.

reply to post by stmichael


5 Million families or 15 -20 million people

in an existing situation of 3,000 counties that's still a dispersion of only 5,000 people per US county out of the city...

That doesn't even begin to factor in the amount of available land for new townships...

Alaska alone is 1/3 the size of the USA itself

You'd still be looking at at very small additions to your local small town when you factor in a single county might contain 1-10 small towns

and your talking about perhaps a large proportion of highly skilled educated workers that would be useful in such places perhaps where they can not find jobs elsewhere

and i'd say your numbers might well be over inflated on what is actually needed

Unemployment is around 10%

so 10% of NYC populace is 1 Million

the number to relieve urban blight, pick up the economy in the urban job market

is probably closer to 10 million right now...

But even if your number is correct

There is a massive amount of untapped land in the USA, without touching a single national park

you could double the number of small townships 5,000 - 20,000 residents and not really change the landscape much, particularly in certain states... Utah, The Dakotas, Much of the North west... it would take anything beyond a good cross country water pipeline to make AZ New Mexico and Texas with Millions and Millions of acres of land available Billions maybe to be viable for a huge population boom...

Ever drive this country?

I'm 60 miles from the nearest small town to the East

you can go 200 miles in parts of land that is simply untapped, let alone Alaska which is all but devoid of inhabitants

so what i'm saying is 20 million... even that is readily absorb able without much changing the landscape... the building of new townships, it creates jobs in construction and labor for those who are not ready.

A man wrote earlier he had no computers to repair in his town of 20,000

That man could use an additional 10-15,000 people in his town, it wouldn't change much at all... 40,000 even is real nice size, for those who like complete isolation... they can move to the utter boonies entirely...

for me while 3 Mil starts to be pushing sustainability in a region.

5,000 means you don't have much of an ability to meet the opposite sex, or earn any money... or have even a decent Library

those towns can take a few thousand skilled educated dwellers and keep a really nice life for everyone...

It is perhaps a change for some who do not want anyone to come along and want utter Mayberry

Yes...

But it wont ruin things so long as you do it now and go slow and have the people coming in...slowly adapting to a slower way of life a few at a time...

sure if your town is 5,000 and 5,000 people from LA and Ny show up your life will be ruined...

That's why this should not happen as an emergency, people should embrace it... the city dwellers need to adapt to small town life not show up and ruin things for everyone else...

sadly I think it will look more like the negative way, people don't act until after a crisis happens...

2 million out of the major cities and out to the country

10 into existing towns

10 into new towns and developments

it wouldn't change much except to revitalize the cities...

What is funny though...

What you do see is the foreigners completely recognize this...

You don't see NY filling up anymore via immigration.... people from Africa, the Middle east and other places, these people now get to NY and move to small towns...

a much bigger culture shock and direction for the residents

Immigrants know where to go, US citizens sit in tents outside Los Angeles

It's kind of Ironic that those same people blame the Govt when really, they just hang onto a dream of a posh Urban Life... meanwhile the guy from Senegal moves his family to nowhere Iowa and buys a house and doesn't loose his Mortgage... because Nowhere Iowa actually beats the heck out of Senegal lol

But a New Yorker... who makes 30 G a year is too stupid to understand HE now exists in a 3rd world environment... he looks at skyscrappers and lives in a rat infested house wasting a life waiting for a big break...

Don't get me wrong...

If I had millions in cash, I'd stay in NY, it's killer.... do anything you want everyday

My reality became an apt with 2 kids for thousands a month

and going out once a month between responsibilities etc...

it's not a Family environment for an average Joe...even an above average Joe

you need 500 G - 1 Mil to have a back yard...

It's moronic to stay there if you don't... once you have a family

You can get your yard for a few hundred G

If you move to jersey and drive 90 min a day

Bu this is the joke from my lil town and it's little airport I can FLY to LA for (I was offered 98.00 on trevelocity today 210 for NYC)

Under 1 hr to fly into LAX for 100 bucks...

About 60 to take a cab in from the outskirts of LA to go out on a Friday night LOL 90 minutes on the freeway....

+ TRIPLE the rent that month an extra 1.5 G maybe

I can drive down to Phx from where I am in 90 minutes and 20.00 in gas

It used to take me 90 Min on Subway to go 7 miles from Brooklyn to Manhattan in rush hr... same if I drove... and then 30.00 to park lol

There is no economic benefit, you need to be rich or your going to always be tight

If your young, in school, single and can take a 1.5 G studio apt...

Sure stay in NY or Miami or Atlanta or LA, Chicago

But if your a normal 40-60 G guy, even a 100 G guy like me usually...

Your wasting your money, it's 2 miles to my airport, they don't do a cavity check, there is no line i'm in LA in under an hr maybe 75 minutes from walking out my door...

and as you get older how often do you use that aspect of the city? night life? etc, etc Once a month?

your 1500 saved - 2500 saved in bills can take you there every weekend if you miss that

Excellent thread and I couldn't agree more.

I went from rural to city at age 20. First time living in the city and I loved it. Lived there for 13 years, then got transferred to a smaller city. Hate to leave, but just a short time after I was thransfered, the big city started bursting out all over. Subdivisions and shopping malls everywhere. Traffic increased to the point where it was bumper bumper on the freeways all the time every day instead of just at rush hour. I was so glad my company moved me out of there! I lived in cities of various sizes until 1990, then moved back to the rural area I came from. Although I missed all the things a city offered, I was so glad to be home where I could see the stars at night, my ears weren't constantly being assaulted by horns honking, music blasting, neighbors screaming, etc., fresh air to breathe, a beautiful, clean, clear river nearby, knowing my neighbors, people who say hello and wave while driving down the road, even if they don't know you. Being able to walk out the front door and be in the woods in 5 minutes.

I am much poorer now than I was then, but I'd rather be poor and live in the country than be loaded and have to live in the city! Fortunately. my tiny town has NOTHING to offer most people, so we don't have alot of growth.
The downtown area is the same as it was when I first moved back here almost 20 years ago. We do have a library now though! And one small office building was just competed a few months ago on the outskirts of town.
It is empty except for one suite of offices the gal that built it has for her business. I am curious to see how long the other half will stay empty. I suspect for quite a long time.

San Antonio is less than an hour away, so all those city things are close by for those that want it.

reply to post by inthesticks


Yeah... I think opposition to what i'm saying will be most intense from the young and perhaps the single...

When it's a Life, a daily life your looking for not excitement, your in a superior position in a small town.

What you so though income, that is the other half of this thread

You have the option to develop a 2nd income and inevitably if you stay with it a first and only income via the net, you don't have to be poor there anymore.

When you really address that right now you can survive and then you add on...

at first a couple hundred then a few hundred then a thousand in that environment you would find comfort will come easy.

1,000 extra a month is allot of money in a small town.

and certainly you have the whole world to explore to do better

and I'd dare say doing that extra work is nice with a lap top under the stars... there's only so much Starbucks I can drink and you tend to get distracted by people.

reply to post by mopusvindictus


Happening because of me? Because I've had some part in the way this crap-pot of a world has turned out?

At 21 years of age, being born and told what I was to do and raised being told how things were, I can say without a shadow of a doubt that I have had NOTHING to do with the situation.

As a matter of fact, I am against the system entirely.



Unlike the majority of people in the world today, I am an idealist. I chose my profession not because it would make me the big bucks because honestly I don't care about money. The fact is I am forced to care about money. This system, the system created by THEM (there it is again) is the reason we all have to live on a system of debt and never actually being able to afford the things we achieve in life.

Don't go an blame me for how the monetary system has become stale in this country, because it always has been. Up until a few years ago, I was misinformed like your average American and I bought a car, I took out school loans, I got myself into debt. Now, I am a slave to the system not because I WANT TO BE, but because THEY have forced onto me.

You see the pattern, it all comes back to THEM. You call it redirecting the blame, I call it facing the facts.




Make money on the net with computer repair? Sell my knowledge? I'm not about to tell anyone that I'm more qualified than someone else on the matter, much less, that many people want to learn the trade. The fact is, I have a market, even in this tiny community, because everyone uses computers, computers all break and get viruses, and no one is going to take the time to learn it themselves.

Allow me to repeat, I didn't choose my profession for the money. It allowed me to do something I enjoy while being close to my family. Is that a crime now? Whatever happened to that American dream? That's right... it came true.



You talk about fearing change and by the sounds of all your posts, you are promoting running away from the problems and hoping they go away. You suggest we blame ourselves for just not accepting the facts that nothing is going to change.

They way I look at it, you are the one that is afraid. You are obviously afraid of what is going to happen in cities so there must be a reason. You mention the breakdown... you think that isn't going to affect you in your little country setting? You think that the repercussions of America's collapse will somehow not meet yours or your children's eyes simply because you chose to turn away and ignore it?





That is your thing. That is what you will do. But don't think your safe. Don't think that your late "hippie" ideology is going to save anybody because it isn't. The fact is, THEY are in control, yes... THEY are. You are not. You moving to the country? Because of them. Having to change your way of living? Because of them.

The problem that some people fail to realize is that what we are facing is a demoralization and destruction of human morality and independence. We have become so dependent on others that for most of us, the only viable option is to run away, or turn a blind eye and just accept it.

But for those of us who understand what is waiting on the other side, us ideologists who realize that our lives don't need to be determined by popular trends or shifts in culture, ultimately manifested by the agendas in power, well, we will be happy fighting, and yelling about THEM as we are in cuffs.


But hey, at least we fought for true freedom in a world that has obviously forgotten the meaning; we didn't just... run away.

reply to post by mopusvindictus


You're right. There are a lot of things I could do to make more money, but at 62, I am no longer overly ambitious and money (which I have had plenty of in the past) and things just don't mean that much to me any more. I work, I make enough to pay the bills, some months more than others., I have 2 really good, life long friends, a great family and neighbors that I like. I have everything I need and most of what I want. I would rather work 5 or 6 hrs. a day with plenty of time left for the things I really enjoy doing and living a virtually stress free life than work my butt off. I used to do that. I'm over it now. In other words, I am LAZY in my old age and wish to remain that way. LOL!

Of course, my feelings wouldn't be hurt if I won the lottery, but I am told ya' gotta buy a ticket to win.

I'm content, and thankful, for what I have

You speak truth. This vision has been with me for some time. Additionally, I see minimal interference with the natural environment in these areas save for growing some food, some minor roads, a small clearing to actually lay out a building, etc. None of the haughty "lawn and garden" stuff that is done now. Towns might exist that are practically invisible from the air where there are forests.

I recall when I was probably 4 or 5 years old asking my mother in a bit of a tongue in cheek way if everything would be cities in the future. I had already picked up on the cultural message that urbanization of the entire planet was some sort of natural progression, synonymous with "progress". I don't remember her answer, if she even answered me in any definitive way.

Originally posted by gwydionblack
reply to post by mopusvindictus

 

Happening because of me? Because I've had some part in the way this crap-pot of a world has turned out?

At 21 years of age, being born and told what I was to do and raised being told how things were, I can say without a shadow of a doubt that I have had NOTHING to do with the situation.

NO, I am talking purely about business, your 21, you are going with what you WANT to do, in the wrong location, it is not a personal comment, it's just advice from a guy who has always ran his own businesses and I do not wish to be the messenger but what you WANT and KNOW, is not necessarily the way to make money, that's all no personal attack, no blame for the situation...

Just Business, and your choice and location are wrong... so you perceive what I'm saying as some attack on you perhaps, but dealing with the reality is the way to make money, dealing with desire will usually let you down

You do not have anything at all to do with the situation, of course not how could you? lol what the heck could you have done?

My friend these are times when many become poor and many will become rich just like the great depression, many millionaires are born.

MY thoughts might not suit you, but my friend you are 21, you have every morning to wake up and follow the golden rule of business...

Supply and Demand, find a niche and fill it

What i'm hearing is you WANT to do something and the demand isn't there right now so your mad... and that's not an Entrepreneur, that's a guy who just want's to do what he wants to do and... you have to be prepared to be poor if passion is more important than money to you, you just....shouldn't be mad...

It's your doing if that's the case...

Unlike the majority of people in the world today, I am an idealist. I chose my profession not because it would make me the big bucks because honestly I don't care about money. The fact is I am forced to care about money.

You don't actually have to care about money, I pay child support, and take care of allot of people and sometimes it makes me mad too...

I am an Animator by trade but do web design, mostly and do not like it that much, people are picky and annoy me sometimes...

But, I do what I have to do...

I also wish that, we had a different system often, in fact i'd say we need to adapt and change...

all i'm saying to you is that in the meantime, being angry does no good...

I would say to a degree we live in a slave system... but none the less it is a slave system that allows you to buy your way from slavery

You can stand up and speak against it... you have every right.

But aside from being angry, or i should say channel that anger... into productive ways around it, you can go with the times and do what needs to be done to buy your freedom and work against that system for others if you still care at that point...

But being angry and suffering rather than adapting will not free you from it any faster

Don't go an blame me for how the monetary system has become stale in this country, because it always has been. Up until a few years ago, I was misinformed like your average American and I bought a car, I took out school loans, I got myself into debt. Now, I am a slave to the system not because I WANT TO BE, but because THEY have forced onto me.

You see the pattern, it all comes back to THEM. You call it redirecting the blame, I call it facing the facts.

Yes, I made those SAME MISTAKES at your age...

And all I am doing is saying that there are ways out of them FAST, it does not mean giving up your ideals, it just means actually dealing with the reality of the fact that your enslaved

Make money on the net with computer repair? Sell my knowledge? I'm not about to tell anyone that I'm more qualified than someone else on the matter, much less, that many people want to learn the trade. The fact is, I have a market, even in this tiny community, because everyone uses computers, computers all break and get viruses, and no one is going to take the time to learn it themselves.

But yet you are not free from slavery so you have nowhere near the earning potential you desire

and... that was an example... what about building gaming machines, starting a company like alienware? or simply offering advice reselling parts, I know guys that make Millions with sites that sell Ram, HD's etc...

I am sure you do have a market...

None the less with 20,000 people you have an INCOME CAP that you will never exceed whatever that may be...

It is that limitation that keeps people in the big cities where anything can happen

I am not trying to tell you what to do...

Only that it is possible to use your knowledge to reach Millions of people with product and advice and whatever YOU think of to offer...

that your small town does not hold an income cap for you... if you employ the internet... that's all

Allow me to repeat, I didn't choose my profession for the money. It allowed me to do something I enjoy while being close to my family. Is that a crime now? Whatever happened to that American dream? That's right... it came true.

The American dream is more alive than ever, few people want to realize it...

You say allow me to repeat myself... "I didn't do this for money"

And you are complaining you do not have enough money that small town life isn't great

If you DO NOT DO IT FOR THE MONEY, then what results do you expect?

You talk about fearing change and by the sounds of all your posts, you are promoting running away from the problems and hoping they go away. You suggest we blame ourselves for just not accepting the facts that nothing is going to change.

I am not talking about running away from anything

I'm talking about getting what you desire and being safe...

If and I believe it is, a major economic collapse looms... it is not running to change the position your standing in to survive

If a car was barreling at your head, would you not move out of it's way? Of course you would?

I am not defending the system, I am saying you have as much chance of stopping a wave as you have of stopping an oncoming car with your hands...

If the world is changing and something is not possible

i.e. living in NYC on 30,000 a year

Then you HAVE to go where you can live on 30,000 a year or find a way to make allot more or you will suffer immensely.

You can't dodge a bullet, it is simple

They way I look at it, you are the one that is afraid. You are obviously afraid of what is going to happen in cities so there must be a reason. You mention the breakdown... you think that isn't going to affect you in your little country setting?

Oh it will meet my eyes, it will affect every one but not in the same way

I am sure, you have the capacity to grow Tomatoes and get some vitamin C

I am sure, 20,000 people will have clean water...

I highly doubt the national guard will lock down your town and make you live in utter misery you don't warrant the attention

I Fear nothing

I do know however when I will loose and am Man enough to deal with it

Change the scenario...

A tornado is coming...

Do you face it head on, or go into your basement?

Your argument to me is like saying... people should face a Tornado without cover...

Fear? No just not an imbecile, if you know the world faces food shortages... you go where you can grow some of your food, that's not fear it's common sense...

Fight? Fight against what? A global food shortage, maybe by rioting in the city that will make potatoes grow?

Maybe killing a politician will make fresh water appear?

What do you do in the face of a tornado...oppose it?

That is your thing. That is what you will do. But don't think your safe. Don't think that your late "hippie" ideology is going to save anybody because it isn't. The fact is, THEY are in control, yes... THEY are. You are not. You moving to the country? Because of them. Having to change your way of living? Because of them.

Hippy Ideology LOL, Change my way of living?

My friend... of many insults... They enslaved children during the industrial era to make them go to a dirty crappy factory, at age 14 girls worked and died by 25 for this crap era, in Russia thousand s were executed for refusing to wear a watch...

It is... a blessing that, the factory based feudal lifestyle can be put to rest

The problem that some people fail to realize is that what we are facing is a demoralization and destruction of human morality and independence. We have become so dependent on others that for most of us, the only viable option is to run away, or turn a blind eye and just accept it.

But for those of us who understand what is waiting on the other side, us ideologists who realize that our lives don't need to be determined by popular trends or shifts in culture, ultimately manifested by the agendas in power, well, we will be happy fighting, and yelling about THEM as we are in cuffs.

Anyone who is happy fighting for any set of programming is already dead

What you just revealed is that... your a fundamentalist that you are filled with hate and anger and believe your better than others.

Through much of this, and when you mentioned Dad.. You sound like an Old man, your religion is not under attack by me, The reality is, your living and repeating the words of an Old man who is not capable of changing, and not a drop of this has to do with GOD or them... he is angry, that he can not longer compete in this world that his AMERICAN values, of Work a hard job come home and eat have changed in front of his eyes

And you COULD, be your own age, not absorb and reflect this anger and make allot of money, but You have every reason of an older guy, why the world has turned on you instead...

reply to post by inthesticks


62? There are pros and cons of aging, but you sir make 62 sound good right now!

This is not a fun economy to still have a full load of mouths to feed in!

This is an excellent time for taking it easy again in life, if your old enough and mature enough to not need material things to keep you happy...

reply to post by EnlightenUp


Yeah, we will have to create very different methods of living in order to sustain population growth.

It's nice to see when someone has the vision especially from a young age to see these things...

It is.... very hard for some people to change, they take it personally even when the change can only make life better.

You have a wise soul

I have long believed that the close proximity, or overcrowding, of Humans is what leads to violence and chaos in communities.

Just look at the examples we have...

Inner City ghettos (we have blocks of flats in all major towns and cities in the UK) create overcrowding to the extent that people are crammed into boxes and stacked on top of one another. These places become hell holes very quickly.

Prison is a perfect example, often showing that those that are overcrowded have a rising spike in violence and rioting.

Immigration centres where whole families share rooms between hundreds of others regularly see violence and rioting.

On the opposing front you have sleepy villages and towns where space is abundant and violence and crime are so low as to be obscene when it actually happens.
Sure you can argue class to an extent, but environment surely impacts on appreciation of same. A person who regularly has to walk through graffiti covered stair wells reeking of urine to get to their home will loose the ability to judge what is reasonable, and may find themselves feeling indifferent. A person who walks to their door feeling safe while smelling the roses climbing the façade of their spacious home will likely appreciate it.

If you swap those people around and put them in the opposing environment, they'll quickly adjust their attitude to reflect that.

A while ago I had hope that we were moving in the right direction. People were beginning to wake up to the environment around them and become more spiritual. I feel this would, if continued, lead to a movement away from the inner cities and into the fields.
But now I'm not so sure.

I honestly feel that it will take a force of incredible magnitude (and immense turmoil) for governments and communities to force this direction. I do believe that we probably won't get there without a war.

It will take a great deal to force people away from the idea of capitals and metropolis, simply because life is too alluring. People want the shiny car, the bigger home, the night clubs and the flickering lights, we have been sold a lie we believe makes us happy, when the alternative of green hills, close community and clean air would make us more so if we just had the opportunity to experience it all, or took the chance to try it.

I would love nothing more than to live in a small town, with space all around me, Chickens in the yard and a community market where real food is sold after being grown on real local farms by the people I know from the local bar.
I would love to shop in family run businesses where corporate involvement is limited to the brand of drink or the packet of cigarettes I might buy.
I'd gladly see every Asda (owned by Walmart) and McDonald's implode on themselves if it meant a return to high streets of local coffee shops, the butchers and the green grocers.

I suppose I'm just another disillusioned, anti-globalist liberal. But I prefer it when my friends call me a Hippy. Even though I prefer to be considered "enlightened"

If I ever finally find a sufficient income from writing, the first thing I will do is leave this city and head for the country.

Great thread!

mopusvindictus, actually I am a Ms, not a sir. Although I have been called Sir or fella on more than one occasion. LOL!

I am self employed and don't have any kids, so don't have to worry about feeding anyone but myself, two dogs and a cat. I do worry about my niece and two nephews and their 7 little ones. They live in Houston and the outskirts of Austin. Not much I can do though. They have to live where they can make a living and unfortunately, there is nothing here for them.

detachedindividual, I agree that overcrowding leads to violence and chaos. The little community I live in will literally fit inside a shopping mall with room to spare. We have no police dept. and the sheriff's office is 13 miles away. We have a constable and justice of the peace for this precinct. Dang near everyone owns at least one gun, but more likely several. Guess what else we don't have - crime! We have some local kids that break and enter, steal things and cause trouble sometimes, but not often. We have a good school, parents and teachers that don't tolerate any sh*t. Every great once and while a couple of good ole boys get drunk and duke it out, but never in town, usually at a party at someone's house. The town is dry on one side of the street, wet on the other (weird!), so we don't have any bars. Don't have many drunks on the road, at least during the hours that other folks are out and about. The streets roll up about dark thirty. Not very exciting, but quiet and peaceful. The elderly live to be in their 90's and are usually pretty darn healthy. Death only makes a call when one gets old or sick or when the floods come and people do stupid things.

Best of all, most everybody minds their own business!

reply to post by mopusvindictus


I can we can simply agree to disagree on our ideologies. Your last post to me made me realize exactly what separates the two of us.

You speak of a car hurtling towards you and you, as you said, would jump out of the way.

I, on the other hand, would figure out a way to stop the car, so that others will not get hurt in it's wake. Even though it may be a losing battle, is it not worth it to have tried?



That is how I see the system. So many people have already suffered so I see it as our, those who see through the smoke and mirrors into the truth, it is our responsibility to do everything we can so that the future doesn't have to deal with it.

By comparing it to something like a tornado, you have already given it and THEM the strength they need, because you have already let them win. You allow them to control their lives and then you simply accept it as "the way it has to be".




I'm not reaching for the past. I'm not afraid of change. I want change more than any other person, maybe more than most. I just don't want change in the wrong direction. I don't want selfish change that will only help me to get by while everyone else suffers under the same system that you chose to accept and live with.

No, I will fight it, because it isn't a tornado just yet. No, I would call it a speeding train. It is head straight towards madness and destruction, and at the end, you know that crowded station is unawares that that train is going to hit and destroy the lives of so many. That train can be derailed before it even happens. It can be put on a new set of tracks, one that will actually lead to something better. It might be hard, it might seem next to impossible, but it can be done, and until the time comes when I am proven otherwise, then I will continue fighting,

I need only to look at history to realize that all it takes is a dedicated group of patriots to change the tide of any system, even if the enemy seems impossible to face. Nothing lasts forever.