SCI: Time Travel 101: A How To Guide

Originally posted by spikey
reply to post by tauristercus

 

Is the speed of light constant though?

Read what happens to the speed of photons when directed through water.

They radically slow to the point where individual photons can be imaged and photographed.

It has been proven that photons can be slowed, and slowed quite radically, so where does that leave Mr. Einstein's theory if c of E=mc^2 CAN change?

The spped of light is a physical constant and has the value we've all come to know and love BUT only if measured IN SPACE.
If light is forced to travel thru other media such as water, air, glass, etc it's velocity DOES reduce based on the refractive index of the material it's passing thru.

Around 1999, I seem to recall, a team of scientists were able to slow the speed of a light pulse to about 17 m/s and then a couple years later (2001), they were able to stop a beam of light but only very briefly.

But then in 2003, scientists at Harvard University and the Lebedev Institute in Moscow, managed to completely halt light by passing it thru a Bose–Einstein condensate.

It's of topic but just a quick explanation: A Bose-Einstein condensate is a bunch of atoms cooled down to virtually absolute zero at which point they begin to act as a single atom with very unusual quantum properties.

reply to post by gimme_some_truth

Time on the plane traveling at 30,000 feet progressed slower than the clock on the ground. Bob said this was because
Earths gravity is weaker at 30,000 feet.
Who is correct? You or Bob Lazar?

The speed of light is independent of gravity.
On the other hand though, gravity CAN influence the path that light takes. Normally light travels in a straight line (locally) but when passing thru a gravitational field can be bent to a degree ... this has been verified many times.

My vote goes to Einstein !

Originally posted by tauristercus
reply to post by gimme_some_truth

 

Time on the plane traveling at 30,000 feet progressed slower than the clock on the ground. Bob said this was because
Earths gravity is weaker at 30,000 feet.
Who is correct? You or Bob Lazar?

The speed of light is independent of gravity.
On the other hand though, gravity CAN influence the path that light takes. Normally light travels in a straight line (locally) but when passing thru a gravitational field can be bent to a degree ... this has been verified many times.

My vote goes to Einstein !

My vote goes with Bob Lazar.
We should find out December 21, 2012.
-Disclosure -
Bob is keeping busy. Check out his company : United Nuclear
unitednuclear.com...

Click on About us and our site link.

I think before Einstein died he found the complete truth but it
was classified by the U.S. Government.

[edit on 10-8-2009 by Eurisko2012]

Well if its possible then it would have already been achieved and mastered, I think it would have been mastered many, many years ago. ( if possible )

but I know we as a species cannot travel among the stars until we reach peace on this planet, that is the ticket we need. As you really think we are alone? and we can just freely travel where we like and when we like amongst other species?....I do not think so. We are in quarantine until that day.

Still this whole travelling in the future and past is honestly monkey nuts!

All the theories put in front of us is complete dreams, not achievable.

First 'time', is not connected to anything, time is a 'measurement' we made fit....

So if time is not connected to anything around us, then we live in a constant flowing motion......That only travels in one direction, 'forward!'

If I sent an object at the speed of light around a sphere it would meet itself around the other side....true. But you would be only seeing the present moment.....Not the past. Its just using speed to catch up with itself...You cant go any faster.....so you will never be in front of the original act, as you cant do that....If there was no original act, then it didnt happen.

We are not recording this like a tape, you cant fast forward and rewind....You can only travel fast!

Now travelling in the future is monkey nuts too.....if there is no future yet, then there is nothing to travel too...Your not escaping in a bubble of your own when you travel fast ( at the speed of light ) your still in the physical space we are.

I cant sit in a car with you and expect to be there before you. does not happen...Use common sense over stupidity!

Please, if you think I am wrong! Explain!

[edit on 10-8-2009 by EnoughIsEnough]

[edit on 10-8-2009 by EnoughIsEnough]

[edit on 10-8-2009 by EnoughIsEnough]

Originally posted by rush969
Let me give a little example of why I don´t believe in those multiple time lines (infinite number).
Let´s say you make an appointment to go to your dentist one month ahead of this day.
You go on with your life and encounter a few instances where you are undecided. You flip a few coins so to speak, during that month. So your time line has split several ways right?
What stops all of your equal selves to show up for the appointment together? Each one is in a new time line for him where each one has a different “same” dentist?
What if the dentist had less, deciding (universe splitting) moments?
What if the dentist had ZERO deciding moments?
Shouldn´t all of your equal selves show up together for the appointment?

Lets see if I can hopefully clarify your confusion ...
By flipping your coin, then yes, the theory is that you immediately create new time lines based on the possible outcomes of the toss. This means that after the toss, there are more time lines containing yourself and your doctor then before the toss. In each of these new time lines you still have that doctors appointment IRRESPECTIVE of any decisions that the doctor may make himself ... unless the doctor in one of those time lines either cancels the appointment ... or dies. Therefore in one months time, in every time line that the doctor or yourself HAS NOT cancelled the appointment, each time line version of you WILL be at that appointment.

Now, if we look at it from the doctors point of view ... once he confirmed your appointment, it doesn't matter how many times HIS personal time line splits because in EACH ONE of those new time lines, each doctor will still have an appointment with you in a months time.

Also bear in mind, that as far as we know, each and every time line is completely self contained and independant from each other. So what happens in one time line CANNOT affect what happens in another ALREADY EXISTING time line. The only way a time line can influence another time line is at the moment of creation of a NEW time line.
In other words, here you are in your time line, you have NO way to influence another time line that already exists ... but if you toss a coin, you ARE influencing a NEW time line by CREATING it.

No matter how fast we fly. We wont change anything but our own speed of traveling. Energy and matter will still be doing its things on its own time.


Lets say you are going on a trip tomorrow. But you would like to know today every event that's going to happen. It wont help if you travel today at 10 times the speed of light. You would still be camping out to wait for tomorrow to happen.

The truth is by traveling very very fast you are only changing your own location at a greater speed. Your not changing anything else about time.

reply to post by spy66


That is correct. By traveling at a high rate of speed you change only your own time line. Every other persons time line remains unaltered.

That is why we are able to in a sense go into the future by going fast.

The person who travels at the speed of light slows down their timeline while earth time continues to go by at its normal pace which is much faster than yours...

So there for while only one year for you passes 100 ( for example) passes on earth... Or so the theory states.

Ok, let me switch to mod mode for a second here.

Let's all be sure to post on topic and be respectful to this thread as a whole.

In case there is any confusion, the topic is, the theoretical science behind time travel as proposed by Albert Einstein in his special theory of relativity.

Thanks.

Originally posted by gimme_some_truth
reply to post by spy66

 

That is correct. By traveling at a high rate of speed you change only your own time line. Every other persons time line remains unaltered.

That is why we are able to in a sense go into the future by going fast.

The person who travels at the speed of light slows down their timeline while earth time continues to go by at its normal pace which is much faster than yours...

So there for while only one year for you passes 100 ( for example) passes on earth... Or so the theory states.

Well we dont really change time but locations at a greater speed.

Lets say you travel with 10 times the speed of light away from earth. And you travel in that speed for 10 days.
It would still take you 10 days to come back if you travel at the same speed.

And if you are gone for 20 days. We on earth would be 20 days older. But so would you.

Lets say you travel faster then our galaxy travels through space. Lets say you travel in the same direction. But faster. 10 times faster then our galaxy does.
You would be at the location 10 times faster. That mean you would have to wait on us to catch up. In a way this sounds like time traveling and it is. But in reality it doesn't change time. It only changes your location in space compared to ours.
Lets say you get board of waiting and you would like to head back home. You would have to travel that distance to where we are located in space. Lets say you waited for 1 day. You would be one day older, but so would we. Lets say it takes you 1 min to get back to earth. That means we all would be 1 day and 1 min older.

The only difference between you and us. Is that you have been to our future location in time a head of us. But time has not changed.

The only way your time would be different is if you use a different clock then we do.





[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

Originally posted by spy66

Originally posted by gimme_some_truth
reply to post by spy66

 

That is correct. By traveling at a high rate of speed you change only your own time line. Every other persons time line remains unaltered.

That is why we are able to in a sense go into the future by going fast.

The person who travels at the speed of light slows down their timeline while earth time continues to go by at its normal pace which is much faster than yours...

So there for while only one year for you passes 100 ( for example) passes on earth... Or so the theory states.

Well we dont really change time but locations at a greater speed.

Lets say you travel with 10 times the speed of light away from earth. And you travel in that speed for 10 days.
It would still take you 10 days to come back if you travel at the same speed.

And if you are gone for 20 days. We on earth would be 20 days older. But so would you.

Lets say you travel faster then our galaxy travels through space. Lets say you travel in the same direction. But faster. 10 times faster then our galaxy does.
You would be at the location 10 times faster. That mean you would have to wait on us to catch up. In a way this sounds like time traveling and it is. But in reality it doesn't change time. It only changes your location in space compared to ours.
Lets say you get board of waiting and you would like to head back home. You would have to travel that distance to where we are located in space. Lets say you waited for 1 day. You would be one day older, but so would we. Lets say it takes you 1 min to get back to earth. That means we all would be 1 day and 1 min older.

The only difference between you and us. Is that you have been to our future location in time a head of us. But time has not changed.

Correct... in a sense... Time has not changed for the people on earth who have not been traveling at 10 times the speed of light. They experience that ten days go by but time DOES change for the person traveling at 10 times the speed of light. Time stretches out for him thus time slows down for him... but not for the people of earth.

It takes ten days for him to get back, by the watches of the people on earth, but it only takes a 1 day for the guy who was traveling the speed of light.

In other words, it affects his time line but no one elses.

reply to post by spy66

Well we dont really change time but locations at a greater speed.

Lets say you travel with 10 times the speed of light away from earth. And you travel in that speed for 10 days.
It would still take you 10 days to come back if you travel at the same speed.

And if you are gone for 20 days. We on earth would be 20 days older. But so would you.

Not so ... if theoretically you could travel at x10 the speed of light for 20 days of YOUR subjective time, you would in fact find that most likely 100's if not 1000's of years had passed for the people back on Earth.
This is the "time dilation" that is a proven fact and can be calculated for any velocity approaching light speed by using the Lorentz time contraction equation.

The only difference between you and us. Is that you have been to our future location in time a head of us. But time has not changed.

Again, not so ... by travelling at speeds comparable to light, you are effectively slowing down your "local" clock relative to the clocks back on Earth. You do NOT reach a point in time that can be considered "the future" ahead of everyone else on Earth. Whilst you're at near light speed, events on Earth continue as normal ... the hours, days, years, etc pass as normal ... as the Earth and everyone on it ages at the expected rate. It's YOUR "local" clock that has "slowed" down so that what seems to you to be only 20 days on board the ship has in fact become equivalent to centuries on Earth.
Eventually you drop out of near light speed and your "local" clock and the clocks on Earth gradually get back in synch and begin to agree once more ... meaning 1 second for you is the same as one second for everyone else.

reply to post by gimme_some_truth


This is a interesting topic

The thing is what ever speed does to the traveler on his trip away from earth. It will also do the same to him on the way back to earth. In theory, unless space has changed between him and earth.

If he travels 10 light year in 1 sec. It would also take him 1 sec to come back 10 light years, in theory. Unless the space he has traveled has changed and he cant travel at the same speed.

That means he would have been traveling for 2 seconds. His clock would still be same as ours.

Lets say he waited for 10 min 10 light years away before traveling back. He would have been gone for 10.2 min. On his clock and ours. Because he is using the same time as we are.

Speed dont work in on our clock. Speed wont slow down the clock that you have on you. Unless it is done so by force.







[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

Ill do another one.

Lets say the traveler is on a planet 10 light years away. That means he is just 10 light years away from us in the same time frame. He is just at a different location then us.

Lets say he want to travel to us 10 light years away. And he can do that travel in 10 min. That means we would have to wait 10 min for him to arrive.

We wouldn't have to wait 10 years would we if he can do the distance in 10 min?

The thing is we can change the speed we travel at but we cant change the distance we have to travel.

If we can curve space one way we curve space just as much on the way back if we travel at the same speed.





[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

reply to post by spy66

If he travels 10 light year in 1 sec. It would also take him 1 sec to come back 10 light years, in theory. Unless the space he has traveled has changed and he cant travel at the same speed.

That means he would have been traveling for 2 seconds. His clock would still be same as ours.

I can see how this idea of time slowing down can be somewhat hard to get your head around at first


The effect of time dilation are negligible for velocities as great as up to half the speed of light, but become very significant as you draw ever closer to the speed of light.
By the time the ship reaches 0.9c or 90% of the speed of light, for each day on board, two and a quarter days pass for YOU on Earth. As we start tacking on nines to our velocity, time dilation becomes ever more extreme.
At 0.999999c of the speed of light, almost two years pass by for YOU back on Earth for every ship's day. If we continue to accelerate to 0.99999999999999c, for every day on board, nearly twenty thousand years years pass for YOU back on Earth ... well, actually YOU won't be around but you get the idea !

So even travelling for only 2 secs at x10 light speed (at the moment theoretically impossible), a CONSIDERABLE amount of time would still have elapsed back on Earth.

Originally posted by spy66
Ill do another one.

Lets say the traveler is on a planet 10 light years away. That means he is just 10 light years away from us in the same time frame. He is just at a different location then us.

Lets say he want to travel to us 10 light years away. And he can do that travel in 10 min. That means we would have to wait 10 min for him to arrive.

We wouldn't have to wait 10 years would we if he can do the distance in 10 min?

The thing is we can change the speed we travel at but we cant change the distance we have to travel.

If we can curve space one way we curve space just as much on the way back if we travel at the same speed.

Ok, where your questions becomes unanswerable is that you're assuming a velocity in EXCESS of light speed which by current theories is impossible (perhaps future theories may show a way).

At present, any physical object (with mass) can be made to approach as close to light speed as you like but can NEVER actually REACH light speed. The reason being that the greater a velocity the object is given, the greater it's effective mass becomes ... eventually you reach the situation where just short of reaching FULL light speed, it's mass has effectively become infinite and thus would need an infinite amount of energy added to increase it's velocity even just a little more.

So ANYTHING greater than light speed at the moment is meaningless to us !

[edit on 11-8-2009 by tauristercus]

reply to post by tauristercus


Well now your onto something totally different.

I was just using light speed to illustrate that it wont change time. Speed only changes our ability to get around faster.

reply to post by spy66

The thing is we can change the speed we travel at but we cant change the distance we have to travel.

Ahhhh ... I see what you're getting at now ... I think !

Ok, in a sense you're right that the linear (or curved space) distance that must be travelled remains the same irrespective of the effects of time dilation ... unless the theories regarding worm holes linking 2 seperate points and creating a "short cut" between them are true - in which case, the "actual" distance travelled between those 2 points becomes considerably shorter.

Originally posted by tauristercus
reply to post by spy66

 

The thing is we can change the speed we travel at but we cant change the distance we have to travel.

Ahhhh ... I see what you're getting at now ... I think !

Ok, in a sense you're right that the linear (or curved space) distance that must be travelled remains the same irrespective of the effects of time dilation ... unless the theories regarding worm holes linking 2 seperate points and creating a "short cut" between them are true - in which case, the "actual" distance travelled between those 2 points becomes considerably shorter.

Mmm worm holes.

Worm holes can be a one way short cut to another location. And to get back you might have to take a longer trip. Unless you can travel back the same way you came from at the same speed. Or by another short cut. But no matter what, it wont change time. Only the traveling time back to earth will change because the distance has changed. But you have to travel the distance you have before you.

If you use one day to travel to another location through a worm hole but use 360 days to get back home by traveling a different rout. It still wont change time. Here on earth.

You would still have been gone for 361 days. And your traveling time would be 361 days.










[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

Originally posted by spy66

If you use one day to travel to another location through a worm hole but use 360 days to get back home by traveling a different rout. It still wont change time. Here on earth.

Correct, here on earth time would not change. The only one experiencing any type of "time change" would be the one who left at the speed of light...













[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]