Why I'm Tired of People Opposed to Health Care Reform

www.abovetopsecret.com...

The plan uses money left over from the financial bailouts to give people without heath insurance and those unhappy with their health insurance vouchers, $2000 if your single and $5000 for families. Then it lets you take that money and shop health insurance nationwide to find a plan best suited to your needs.

There are many other good things proposed in this plan IMO, check it out.



[edit on 9-8-2009 by mhc_70]

yes I think there is probably some good content as well some things that need to be changed - I just wish people would stop buying into the media hysteria coming from both sides long enough to have a real discussion...

why are folk so willing to take their marching orders from these corporate hacks? That's a rhetorical question - I think I understand the dynamic - but its frustrating for people like me - non-partisan - who "just want the facts mam" .....I fall out conservative Catholic on some points and on other points I have concerns for social justice and the rights of folks to have the healthcare they need....its is a complex issue that needs cool heads and thorough discussion....town hall meetings have always been integral to this process - those who disrupted the meetings would have served their cause and the process much better had they instead asked the difficult questions and let the speakers answer - In this way a dialogue takes place can throw light on the issues....a much better platform than shouting down the oppopsition....

[edit on 9-8-2009 by realshanti]

Only my viewpoint here.

This is just another tax bureaucracy to cover the fact that Medicare no longer works. The bill has been disected and has been gleaned to be wanton. Love those two words, just had to use them.LOL

Power grab by the Obamamaniacs.

Unconstitutional use of federal control. But WTF, just another one in the long list of Dem and Repub craziness. Who cares if they do not have the authority, right?

Our country is on the verge of collapse and all we need to do, to save ourselves is throw the Constitution completely out the window. Sotomayor was a good start with that LOL.

Oh and if you want healthcare, get it enacted in your fracking state, which is constitutional. Wisconsin has BadgerCare, which for us is fine. Now I wonder what will happen to these systems once the Feds take control?

Now some of you asked for alternatives or solutions to our current predicament.
How about this?
1 Pull back all military forces to our country to protect our fracking Country from outsiders and insiders-Bring them home and build new bases to house them-can you say stimulus-plus we will get stimulus by our troops spending their money here-remember when they shut them all down, kind of spooky
2 Eliminate all unnecessary Federal government programs-obvious ones
3 Eliminate the Fed and institute one National Bank that loans to Our Citizens only-at 0% interest
4 Pull back all TARP and TARF and any other funds immediately and pay
off all outstanding debt to any Foreign Governments also pass a law which does not allow foreign ownership of anything in the US (the government is selling off government buildings and land-Can you say fire sale)
5 All Foreign aid to Zero except by 1 line only bills approved by Congress
prevents them from giving Billions for whatever reason they wish
6 Last but not the LEAST eliminate all UNCONSTITUTIONAL acts by our
government in the last 100 years
7 Quit bitching about the other party and elect non offiliated people to the
government in every election in the future-

If we do not do these things, I believe we as a NATION, will cease to exist within the next 2 years. We will see one of the most bloody civil wars to ever happen on this planet. Do you really think this is a conservative thing? Everywhere I go, everyone is getting fricking pissed. It has nothing to do with a Dem or Repub thing. TPTB keep masquerading it as one and the ignorant keep believing it but the ignorant are learning. And if any of you think we the people have a chance against military forces, you have no clue what our military is capable of. That is why I want our forces back, to protect us from the government.

And I am getting angry and scared, kind of a bad combination for a terrorist/rightwing/nutjob/informed/OCD sufferer. Just keep backing us into the corner OBAMA.
See you all at CAMP FEMA WHERE WE ALL WILL FIT NICELY INTO THOSE MICROWAVE OVENS

reply to post by endisnighe


the only thing I would say in response to some of your suggestions which seems to be mainly a return to planning along constitutional guidelines and returning power to the states - things which could be good though there would be a period of painful adjustment - but perhaps do-able in the long run - I don't know if we have the will for such a move but your suggestions are well taken...

however as regards to Medicare - it saved my life literally - without this fall back I would be dead - and since I paid into the social security system for forty years I was extremely grateful to receive this benefit....and along with state medicade this has made the difference and allowed me to live with some dignity and hope. So help from the fed is not all bad and was implemented quickly and efficiently...

reply to post by js331975


I am not opposed to healthcare reform. I am however opposed to the way Obam-bam thinks we should go about it, and am quite frankly sickened by some of the things I've read from that bill.

So the "idiots" became "people" in your title? That's a start.

Hopefully, you were not pressured into making this change.

[edit on 9-8-2009 by SphinxMontreal]

Be sure to check out my thread on what another government run healthcare plan is doing to it's clients.

Oregon State Health Plan Refuses Cancer Treatment...

To understand such an argument, you need to also NOT take the MAIN stream media as a source of credentials. At the moment, you have to understand that we cannot just take what we see on TV as great. It is propaganda itself, as they call conservative radio propaganda.

I am a pro constitutionalist. Clearly there is no grounds on keeping the constitution with this move in healthcare. Anything with government injection, such as medicaid, social security, and the Postal service are clearly not working. Why would we trust the government to EXPAND further when it has a track record of doing poorly in the other projects.

America is great because of the free market capitalism, the reason why we have come such a long ways, faster than other markets is because of Free Market Capitalism. Not Robin Hood, Obama in Whitehouse, stealing from the rich and giving it to the poor. This is factual, as much as injection and nationalization make it seem Obama knows what he is doing, this is absolutely UN-AMERICAN. In every right. America promotes getting paid out for doing a great job, not taxing the richest to pay the poor who probably do not work as hard as the rich do.

Understand the idea that trickling down economics works. Not trickle up poverty.

reply to post by realshanti


Realshanti, Nothing wrong with gaining benefit from something that you payed into for years.

It p's me off when people act like medicaid, medicare, and SS are welfare.
They take the biggest chunk of your paycheck for just that stuff!!! It's only welfare freebies if YOU HAVEN'T PAID IN.

If we could get the peeps that have payed NOTHING into it from raiding SS and Medical programs, we might have a start to fixing this mess.

I feel that if our government really wants to implement a health care reform, They should first start with the elimination of corporate fastfood chains that cause these cardio diseases and diabetes and other health related issuses. Also stop the floridation and vaccines that causes these neurodegenerative type diseases. Have any of you seen the crap they feed our kids in the education system? I also see health care reform starting second by you as an individual to take more responsibility for yourself and your children. Being more concious of what you eat, wholefoods, water, exercise, and simplifying your lifestyle. But for the rest of you sheeple, I don't think your able to take care of yourself. That why you need big brother to take care of you.

Originally posted by hotrodturbo7
reply to post by realshanti

 

Realshanti, Nothing wrong with gaining benefit from something that you payed into for years.

It p's me off when people act like medicaid, medicare, and SS are welfare.
They take the biggest chunk of your paycheck for just that stuff!!! It's only welfare freebies if YOU HAVEN'T PAID IN.

If we could get the peeps that have payed NOTHING into it from raiding SS and Medical programs, we might have a start to fixing this mess.

Bless your heart - I hear your frustration ....here is where I stand on it - I think that welfare cheats and such folk that are committing fraud should be exited from the system most definitely however I m not sure they are the biggest problem and though our immigration difficulties contribute I think those could eventually be cleaned up and handled humanely as well....I'm afraid these numbers are spun by our politicos up or down according to their need for a political power base among concerned citizens like us - in other words I don't believe what I hear in the media anymore from either side - go figure.lol

The fact remains that there many many people with life threatening illnesses, severe physical or mental disabilities and/or illness that have never been able to pay into the system - these people need healthcare [you would agree with this I think]-

here's where it gets sticky for many - I think it is immoral to deny someone healthcare regardless of their ability to pay especially if they are in a life threatening situation or have young children that need basic services...If I deny someone services, anyone - who badly needs my help that is a denial of my faith, a denial of the sanctity of human life... that I cannot do...

Both sides - dems and repubs, left and right are flawed in their thinking - The left would sacrifice human life by rationing care, euthanasia, abortion and so forth - unacceptable -
the right would deny based on status and holding onto the corporate model like Moses and his tablets while decrying the evils of socialism - unacceptable
And profit and license is ultimately is the motive of both philosophies...

So I get blasted from both sides but I believe if we operated from the approach of what helps people and families first, including the smallest and the weakest, instead of what helps our bottom line [ie., $$$] then the creative solutions would begin to surface...

I understand what you are saying, and I would not deny care to someone in an emergency. It is a mandate ate every hospital that they provide lifesaving care regardless of ability to pay. Also it is mandated by federal medicaid guidelines that they cover pregnant women and children, at the bare minimum.

But if someone making 75,000 a year gets laid off from GM, and they can't afford a few days in the hospital because they spent every dime thgey ever earned and saved nothing, are we responsible for them?

I understand that people should not have to become completely indigent before they qualify for some help, but they also need to take some responsibility for their situations.

[edit on 10-8-2009 by hotrodturbo7]

The same people telling us how great this new health care bill is, are the same people who voted for the bailout, the same people who voted to send people to wars overseas to die, the same people who don't apply the policies/laws they set in place to themselves. Period.

[edit on 10-8-2009 by newgeneric]

Originally posted by newgeneric
The same people telling us how great this new health care bill is, are the same people who voted for the bailout, the same people who voted to send people to wars overseas to die, the same people who don't apply the policies/laws they set in place to themselves. Period.

[edit on 10-8-2009 by newgeneric]

No that's wrong.

I think the healthcare bill is an awesome idea.

But the bailout was a silly idea, but everyone will see that when it comes crashing down again.

Wars are like the bailout. Prolonging of problems.

[edit on 10-8-2009 by JustAThought]

reply to post by js331975

Why I'm Tired of People Opposed to Health Care Reform

Be 'tired' at your leisure. That is your right. But if you choose to ignore those voices that disagree, then don't expect them to listen to yours.

reply to post by Zosynspiracy



Sadly i see many people with your attitude. I pray you never get a chronic illness. I fought Disability for two years, and even after i won i had to wait nearly 10 months for medicare to kick in. Its actually pretty difficult to get medicaid in the state of texas, your family income has to be less than 900 a month total. I was a computer tech, made a lot of money, had good insurance...till i got sick. Company had "lay offs" of which i was the only one let go. Not that i really blamed them, my healthcare costs would have made the rest of the companies premiums soar. I kept COBRA insurance for as long as i could...after that i did without and in doing so i've lost an eye and had severe complications. If i'd had a little help in the beginning i might probably still be a working taxpaying american instead of a semi useless disabled ex computer tech posting on a conspiracy website.

So yeah, i do not know you. I'll never meet you face to face, but i still pray you never get sick like i did. I wouldn't wish it on my wost enemy. I realize life isn't fair but saying "oh poor people get it free" and all that isn't true in many cases. If you DO get sick best read the fine print on your insurance policy and dot every i and cross every t because if you make the tiniest mistake they'll drop you in a heartbeat and there IS no getting new insurance if your already sick. Its a horrible morass of "pre-existing conditions" et al. So take care of yourself and may luck be with you and everyone else because getting sick in america is a suckhole of pain, waiting and worry about how to pay for your next doc appointment or pill.

Cody

I have lived in Australia for the last nine years after spending the previous 32 years in America. The healthcare here is amazing, I hold no private insurance -- it is available if you want it. My kids have had operations and lots of sick visits. For my one daughter to have her tonsils out it was $350.00, for my other daughter to have eye surgery by an internationally recognized specialist it was $400.00. Doctor visits are about $30.00. Prescriptions are $15.00 -- $30.00

I have heard people rant about how they don't want the government to make medical decisions. Well they don't here. The people who are making medical decisions in the states are greedy insurance people with zero medical expertise.

Before leaving the states my oldest girl had pneumonia. Her oxygen/ blood ratio dropped to 92%. She had a high fever. It took four days for the Doctor to prescribe Cipro which cleared the pneumonia and fever the same day. She had to consult our insurance company every visit and it wasn't until I insisted that she hospitalize my daughter before the insurance company gave in and allow the Doctor to prescribe what she should have prescribed days earlier. It was a complete joke. A scary joke at that!

Every industrialized nation in the world has public health. How is there even an argument against it. It is sad that so many people are completely brainwashed.

Hello all ,new to the site ,I hope I can have something to offer in a forum of educated people. My personal problem is with all negative comments , referals to "Union" The AMA is the most powerful union in the US and they are terrified with a heath plan that would , perhaps , make them retire to MAUI one or two years later than they had planned- it needs to be illegal for a doctor to make any profit from drug companies to market the product.

reply to post by Alien Mind


I wasn't dogging the south, READ my post. I said it was hardly fair that the jap companies are allowed to pay their non unionized workers in the south a thrid of what the northern american auto workers are paid. learn to read bubba.

Originally posted by kenton1234
reply to post by Alien Mind
"Whats with the hatred towards the south?

You think that we don't deserve to get paid?

We have kids to feed just like everyone else.

Comments like that are the reason there is still hate in the world.

 

I agree alien mind. I am beginning to wonder what this argument is really about anyway. Its so hard to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person.

you are the unarmed person if you cant take the time to read my original post. go back to elementary school. find another foe. I'm against non union jobs.