Is Fighting Back Really Going to Help?

Please understand, I am not judging, attacking, demoralizing anyone, I really want to understand where you are coming from.
So listen from where I'm coming from, and lets have a conversation

I believe that the world is going through some amazingly hard times. Perhaps even end-of-days times as some you call it. I think that events are going to happen within our life time that will change the entire course of our species.
Many people are angry at the state of things. Angry with the amount of freedoms that have been taken away from them. Angry that the planet is suffering the way it is. Angry that our foods are being poisoned, that our animals are being treated without regard for their well being. The list goes on.

Many of you, as it has become apparent (especially in recent months) by listening to your comments and reading your threads, believe it is time to strike back. Many of you want to express your anger in violent acts, to take out your injustices on the ones that have caused you pain.
But I ask you, what good will that bring?

I think we should take a step back a little, take a deep breath before we forget ourselves.
I want you to ask yourselves who you are, what kind of person you are inside, and look at the situation through fresh eyes.

I know a lot of you (based on responses from some of my other quotes) will think what I am saying is New Age mumbo jumbo, but its not. None of what I say has not been already been taught from your religious icons. None of what I say can not already be found within yourselves.

So lets start.

Let us suppose that the world starts to riot. That we begin to fight against those who wish to suppress us with physical force. To challenge a power that has been planning this for decades, perhaps longer, and one that has the power to do what they want without hesitation. Would that not give them ALL the incentive they need to act out their final plans? To put us under martial law, to lock us up in camps, to take away every right we have to protect those that stand with them?
Did we not already do this once?
When we fought Britain for freedom, both religious and personal, just to become the suppressors ourselves.
Will this help us get out of our current predicament?

The answer is no. At least from my perspective.
Since when does evil (violence) not beget more evil?
Does an eye for an eye not leave the world blind, as Ghandi put it?
Or how about the words of Jesus?
"Let he who is without sin throw the first stone." - John 8:7
"But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also." -Matthew 5:39
"If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic." -Luke 6:29

As stated in a recent thread, is it not possible that in order for this govt to carry out their plans they NEED us to fight back?
I've been thinking about this a lot, especially recently, as I've been reflecting on myself, trying really hard to lose my ego, step back, and raise my consciousness, which can only come from quieting the mind, living in the now, and and spreading true love energies.
That includes loving the illuminati, NWO, or whatever other label you want to place on them. Many on here call them evil, and speak as though they would cause physical harm to them if they could, but really, we shouldn't be angry with them, we should pity them. Understand that they have deluded themselves by their own unconsciousness. They are not free, and though they think they are getting what they want, they will never satisfy their ego. They are the ones without freedom, trapped in their own delusions.

So lets suppose they know a shift of consciousness may be forming in the masses. If this happens, and we can all find true inner peace, and not look to the future for satisfaction, or our past for identity, but live in the now, then they will lose all of their power.
Why?
Because they would no longer be able to take anything away from us, causing us distress or unhappiness. No matter what they do, we will be free, and be truly happy by simply being, seeing the beauty of this world.
If they know this, then yes, I think it is completely plausible that they want us to rebel. They want us to riot, give them an excuse to cause more suffering, to take away more freedoms. This would distract us from raising our being, our consciousness.

I think the more that people start turning their focus in on themselves, the more they will realize this as well. Though I am not a christian, I believe many merits in the words of Jesus, just as I do the buddha, and other religious figures. Jesus said in the bible (in regards to consciousness), "and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free."
When we raise our consciousness, it is easier to see the truth in this world, we will know the truth when we see it.

I mean, just look at Ghandi. He freed an entire nation from british regime with complete non violence and love. Was it hard? YES! especially when the british massacred over 1000 people at one time in cold blood.
If they had lost their cool, the British would have been able to imply more martial law and more military powers. But they didn't, they turned to the enemy with love.
A perfect example of how this philosophy works.
You can be as humble as you like about your opinions, but I think that deep down you will find that rising up to this madness in a nasty way will only cause more harm than good.
It doesn't take any religion, new or old, for someone to know what the right thing to do is.

A while back I started a thread: It's Time.
Here a few of my feelings of our situation at the time from that thread:

Evil begets evil, and I often have to remind myself of this when I have thoughts of violent riots and even as far as wanting these guys in power to just disappear (if you know what I mean). But these thoughts will only lead to more harm, and MUST not be the way we go about it.

...

Obviously people are concerned about the outside world, but lets focus on ourselves for a minute. Lets fix this country. Make America the land of the free, where everyone works for eachother and celebrates our existence. Once we can do that, the rest of the world will catch on, I'm telling you.

...

There is a solution, and its within ourselves.
I'm not asking you to do nothing. I'm asking you to take action, within yourself and the community around you. I know its a lot to ask, but we are the ones who will change the future.
Look inside yourself, we all know what we need to do. It will not be easy, but it will be full of love, and that is what the world ultimately needs.
If you live that life, if you walk down this path, then at least you will have walked a good life.

"He who experiences the unity of life sees his own Self in all beings, and all beings in his own Self, and looks on everything with an impartial eye."

"It is better to conquer yourself than to win a thousand battles. Then the victory is yours. It cannot be taken from you, not by angels or by demons, heaven or hell. "

"We are formed and molded by our thoughts. Those whose minds are shaped by selfless thoughts give joy when they speak or act. Joy follows them like a shadow that never leaves them."

"We are shaped by our thoughts; we become what we think. When the mind is pure, joy follows like a shadow that never leaves. "

"We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts, we make the world. "

-Buddha

Please. I do not want to argue with any of you. I love you. I really do. We are of the same history, the same DNA, the same mind. Do you not feel that this is the truth?
We are already free. There exists nothing in the future that we don't already have today to make us happy.

I look forward to our conversation.
Love and peace.


[edit on 3-8-2009 by Odessy]

reply to post by Odessy


I would have been part of the establishment were it not for my son. My little guy will not have to put up with the things I am witness to now. I am going to fight, tooth and nail, knife, gun, fist, rock, stick, what ever it takes to insure that he has a chance at a good life.

That is just one mans opinion though.

reply to post by Odessy


There is new technology. They use it against you, you use it against them. They put their dogs to you and you return with yours.

i'm not from the states, so recently, i haven't been to proud of the states. They called us pussies cause we didn't go into Iraq.
One thing that gave me hope tho was that in my own personal experience, even those on the fringe, the conspiracy theory websites, are advocating nonviolent protests and retribution through avenues in "the system" that are still available.
much patience, american has.

but damn, if that cup of patience runneth over?
yipes!!

guys'll'be knocking guys out in the streets and holding the baby while gals do the same.

And also, tbh, i think the sheer size of overturning the US system makes kicking out the british look like a walk in the park.

Imho, tptb would have learned from that and closed avenues of recourse that peaceful protest could lead to. Or if they were on their game, they would have.

reply to post by Odessy

You speak philosophically. You speak of ideals. There's nothing wrong with ideals. Nothing wrong with wanting peace.

Nothing wrong with the concepts and practices of forgiveness.

Here's the problem.

When events overwhelm people's abilities to use reason, then rational thinking and practice go right out the window.

In a do or die environment, there's a whole lot of dying.

Those who survive do not do so because they sacrifice the welfare of their loved ones.

Those who survive, have sharper fangs, longer claws, and the ability to out-mean those who would see them die for the purpose of their own survival.

You want to see what humanity will be like if things go tits up?

Go to the country where you see several porch dogs. Throw one big, fat, juicy pork chop among them.

Or leg of lamb.

This isn't really a good example, as the dogs won't kill each other like men would.

Fighting will really help.

Me.

I don't think fighting back is the answer, it's really what they would want so they can label you crackpots etc. I believe that mass gatherings and awareness is what will bring humans together for the greater good of humanity. It may involve a lot of unrest in the beginning unfortunately.

1st all the sleeping ones need to be woken up and reality checked.

reply to post by mikerussellus


i'm with you maike.
i would rather be dead than live under this oppression that i have been for decades and god forbid what is to come next!!!
try and vaccinate me for a hyped up pandemic? try it
maybe i'm not as equipped as the military but i won't be the only dead person in my yard i gaurantee that much.
patrick henry wasn't it?- said give me liberty or give me death"
i have no problems with that.
and i will make sure i take out as many as i can in the time being.
i believe in the constitution and it no longer exists but it is what made our country great once until the powermongers got in office.
answer me this? if a congressman is supposed to be a public servant who is supposed to represent us but doesn't, why is he making $450,000 (from our taxes)already rich and decided he wanted to do a public service for his people? shouldn't be making what us common folk do?
i would rather see emergency personnel makingthat kind of money instead- at least they care about people
enough people get together to fight the gubmint knows they are in trouble that is why they are cracking down on the 1st amendment and totally trying to absolve the 2nd.
not to mention ignoring the 10th.
and the 13th with forced slavery.
that is just off the top of my head pissed off and tired of typing

I agree completely with this thread.

Here is why.

Rather than destroying what now exists, and harming people in our lust for revenge, there is a better way.

Emergence and abundance.

We are an emerging civilization, and there is an abundance of resources around us that lay untapped, and unnoticed.

By simply tapping into the creative energy within each and every one of us, we can create new things. We can create new jobs, new technology, new homes, new anything.

The Roman Empire did not collapse over night, people just built a new civilization around it. And that is what we are now faced with.

We must create a new world of tomorrow for everyone. And there is no force on this planet capable of preventing creation, sure they can slow us down but they can not "stop" us.

Rather than rioting and hurting other people, we should be out educating other people about their inherent worth. We should point out to them that they are capable of creating something new and useful.

Creation is far more useful for the civilization of tomorrow, than destruction.

The fork in the road leads in two directions.

Shall we begin the mass destruction? Or should we begin the mass creation?

By creating the new, we can use this energy as a means to propel ourselves to the next tier of technological development.

Rebelling only creates a protracted guerrilla war anyways.

Creating new things creates a protracted economic situation that brings abundance to many.

So what will it be people? Another Dark Age or another Golden Age?

+ = +
and
- = -

reply to post by muzzleflash

Noble thoughts.

But how can you teach if no one wants to be a student? I wish I could take the high road. I really do.

But I just am afraid that those that want to do us harm (mentally, physically, socially, morally) won't allow that.

They aren't giving us a chess board to play on.

They are giving us a foul, disgusting battlefield.

Originally posted by dooper

Those who survive, have sharper fangs, longer claws, and the ability to out-mean those who would see them die for the purpose of their own survival.

Not so fast there.

So humans have sharper fangs than sharks? Or longer claws than a lion? Hardly.

We are simply smarter when it comes to tactics. That is what set us above them in the food chain.

For example the herd of buffalo vs the weak yet smart Native Americans.

The buffalo is stronger, has horns, and a nasty attitude.

However the Native Americans simply devised a plan to stampede the buffaloes into a trap, and they went right off the cliff to their deaths.

They did not even need a weapon. Just their brain.

And that is what we need now more than weapons. We need brains.

Just imagine the PTB as the herd of buffalo, and we are the natives with only smarts on our side.

All we have to do is out-wit them. Easy enough, there is only a few hundred of them, and there are billions of us.

The odds look very good.

Stop waiting for the powers that be to create tomorrow. We need to go create tomorrow without TPTB. Then they will get left in the dust.

Originally posted by mikerussellus

They aren't giving us a chess board to play on.

They are giving us a foul, disgusting battlefield.

True. That is because they created the chessboard with their own ingenuity. However chess is an old game, and people want something new.

So it is up to us to create a new game board, if you will, where the rules of the game are completely different.

"Keeping up with the Joneses" can be a two way street.

The pendulum of time is swinging back now, there is no way to stop that.

When you begin to create the world of tomorrow for yourself, people around you will see and become jealous, thus desiring to do the same.

They may not wish to be taught today, but tomorrow they will be knocking at your door asking for you to teach them how to create cheaper power sources for their homes, or how to get clean and cheap water.

Money talks after all. The world of tomorrow is not one of lack, it is one of abundance for all. The resources around us are just simply staggering.

The sunshine, the rain, the air itself, are limitless resources begging to be tapped into. Hell there are resources I cant even think of because we have not discovered them yet. Or how to use them.

You cannot meter this. People will not pay a human being for sunlight or rain. Well, intelligent people would not pay for them, stupid ones probably would lol.

reply to post by Odessy


Well, Like many it depends on the scenario. What exactly is being done by whom / circumstances.

An exact scenario would have to be stated to provide an accurate response. An overview response for me is: Anything or anyone that is 1. Attempting to do my family harm 2. Steal my property (Food, water, shelter, defense), 3. disarm me for the purpose of doing 1. & 2. will meet resistance.

Who in their right mind would not defend themselves and their families?

Originally posted by muzzleflash



Then they will get left in the dust.

Look at you elected officials. Just look at them. Heroes? Or trash?

reply to post by muzzleflash


i agree too they are noble thoughts, but didn'tthe romans assissinate one of their best emporors to allow the bad to come in tocause the collapse?
i may be wrong and stand corrected but they had a goverment like we do and the few in power wanted more power so they killed ceasar because they didn't like him and his ideas.
hmm kind of sounds like jfk
back on topic- fighting can work as long as people wake up and band together at once.
you can't have just a band here and a band there- you need millions at once.
hell even most of our military will stand up and fight and if they don't they deserve hanging(punishment for treason) because they took an oath to uphold the constitution.
biggest problem is our gubmint is so secretive, controls the msm so all people care abour is mj dying etc, and people just don't care because their normal lives aren't affected, but once that stops it will be to late.
sure i am a terrorist now but so be it.
not even sure if i am allowed to take a leak anymore without that being illegal too


[edit on 3-8-2009 by bigfoot1212]

I don't normally do this, but I'm going to quote myself, what better source right? I mean, I am responsible for the consequences of what I say. I wrote a little ditty called the Declaration of Independence 2009, you may have seen it in General Conspiracy. There's a reason why I wrote that. Having come from outside the US to call this nation home today, I can tell you that every grain of sand, every brick in every building, every person in this nation, is worth fighting for. I believe this because NO OTHER PLACE ON EARTH was founded on individual rights, rather than subjugation and subordination. There is no where else to go. And if we don't weed out corruption in our government and force it to shrink to a sustainable level it will drag us into poverty NO ONE IN THIS NATION has ever experienced before, barring the ones too old to survive much longer.

The following is the quote explaining why I wrote The Declaration of Independence 2009, and why we have to protect what we have:

I didn't write this for me. I wrote it so that others may be reminded of what the American culture truly is. I've heard so many people say that America lacks history and culture, I beg to differ. From the moment my feet hit the tarmac I knew I was in a wholly different place, and it has shaped who I am and what I believe in today.

We have a culture of freedom, of self expression, thought, life, and the individual right to protect it. Not from the Constitution, this, or any other declaration, but from the creative force that allows our existence, whatever it may be, and no government authority can challenge that, and none should dare unless they wish to limit their existence. Humans are a patient bunch, but eventually that patience runs out. My patience has run out. American government officials have been saying for decades that we are fighting for freedom everywhere, and yet the vast majority of the world is less free today and we at home are watching the cage doors close. Most of us blindly.

It is time to wake up and take the country back. I'm not for the destruction of government, but I am for ethical government. And right now our government is anything but ethical. By putting your name on this you ARE doing something. You are being heard, you are making your line in the sand. You are NOT too small. Government should be afraid of the people, not the other way around.

This isn't about democrat and republican, gay or straight, race, religion, or nationality. This isn't about sound-bites by a bought political elite, and it certainly isn't about the media they spread their lies with, it is about you. About your country and about your future security, which can only be guaranteed by the affirmation of your liberty.

projectvxn.deviantart.com...

reply to post by muzzleflash


If you think that we can trick the buffalo into the trap, then I'm all ears.

Be extremely subtle, even to the point of formlessness. Be extremely mysterious, even to the point of soundlessness. Thereby you can be the director of the opponent's fate.
Sun Tzu

I want to win this fight. Not just fight the fight. (does that make any sense?)

But if all I have left is the fight, . . . well, no need to finish that thought.

reply to post by Odessy


When they make their move, if I thought that kisses and hugs would help, I'd do that.

It would be great to have a non-violent revolution. But seeing how many are in this thread, could represent the majority. Sure some may think that the majority is not awake, conscious. But bare with me for a second. Could it be that your ego makes you think that being awake makes you better than the unconscious?

Someone brought up Rome, a perfect example of what could happen. A destructive revolution/invasion from barbarians wanting "change". What did it bring? The Dark Ages, which held us back. It's up to me. It's up to you. It's up to everyone to change themselves, in a way that they want to see the world. Problem is, too many people in world, want different things.

reply to post by Trams


I didn't mention Rome. I have no idea of their ideals.

I dont think I'm better than anyone. I am not awake, just trying to get there.
So far, I am simply following the teaching of who i consider wise men. People that religions were founded on. Unfortunately, it is my opinion that those religions have become distorted, I'm trying to get back to the basics.

From what I have learned, and how I feel, I do feel better about myself and the world around me. Thats all I can say man. Its just a feeling, but inside I believe that its the truth. If things are done with love, then ultimately, that will prevail.

Maybe I'm still living in my boyhood world, I'm an animator, can you blame me
But I like the person I'm becoming, and I'm feeling happy, more than I used to, and more often.



Thank you for the comments everyone.
I see where a lot of you are coming from, but I still feel fighting will make things worse. How can it not?

[edit on 4-8-2009 by Odessy]

Originally posted by dooper
Those who survive, have sharper fangs, longer claws, and the ability to out-mean those who would see them die for the purpose of their own survival.

You want to see what humanity will be like if things go tits up?

I mean, we killed over 100 Million of our own species in the 20th century alone... look where we are today...