Freemason 32nd Degree Ritual

Originally posted by MrNECROS
Leveller - what?! so you STILL believe that this a copy of the Cearnue Rite, McClenechan was English and that the 32nd Degree does not revolve around the initiation of a Novice into the Order Knights Templar

You've been told this about a million times before: McLenachan's monitor describes a 32° ritual based on the workings of the ritual by the Supreme Council of the Northern Jurisdiction USA and Supreme Council of England. This version of the 32° is ok I guess, but you've completely missed the point here: the Southern Jurisdiction uses the Albert Pike Version, which is a completely different ritual with a completely different meaning. I've even given you sources where you can read the basics of the ritual yourself ("A Bridge To Light" by Rex Hutchens, "Legenda of the 32°" by Albert Pike, and Chapter 32 of Morals and Dogma).

The Pike Version isn't about Templary; the Templar degrees of the Southern Jurisdiction are the 27°, 29°, 30°, and 33°. The 32° of the Pike System is concerned with philosophy, not chivalry, and is based in the symbolism of Zoroastrianism and the Magi.

Simply put, the ritual you claim is the 32° is no such thing; hell, a closer description of the real degree can be read on anti-Masonic site here:

www.dccsa.com...

The interpretations there (for example, claiming that Ahura Mazda and Mithra are supposed to be the devil) are certainly ludicrous, but the basic description of the ceremony itself is generally accurate, or, at least more so than yours.

[edit on 15-3-2005 by Masonic Light]

A completely different ritual with a completely different meaning.

So you have undergone both?

So Zoroastrians were in no way involved with sacrifice? (I know it was trendy, I want to know if they did it or not)

Originally posted by akilles
A completely different ritual with a completely different meaning.

So you have undergone both?

So Zoroastrians were in no way involved with sacrifice?

The majority of religions were involved in sacrifice at one time or another in history. Read the Bible and you see Jews and Christians sacrificing left, right and centre.

As for your question whether or not Zoroastrianism practiced sacrifice? Sorry to dissapoint you here. There is evidence pointing both ways. What is known is that Zarathustra (look him up) did not approve of animal sacrifice and thought it crude and many claim that he banned the offerings of animals for sacrifice. The meat itself was acceptable but there was no slaughter of an animal on the alter as in Judaism.
From the evidence, Zoroastrianism turned it's back on animal sacrifice more than any other religion of it's time. That's not to say that they didn't partake in meat offerings, but their major sacrifice substance was totally different - haoma.

Take a look at Yasna, 12, 1 and 2 and you can see that the Zoroastrians were hostile to the Daevas because they were happy when people sacrificed cows.

"1: I curse the Daevas. I declare myself a Mazda-worshipper, a supporter of Zarathushtra, hostile to the Daevas, fond of Ahura's teaching, a praiser ofthe Amesha Spentas, a worshipper of the Amesha Spentas. I ascribe all good to Ahura Mazda, 'and all the best,' the Asha-owning one, splendid, xwarena-owning, whose is the cow, whose is Asha, whose is the light, 'may whose blissful areas be filled with light'."

"2: I choose the good Spenta Armaiti for myself; let her be mine. I renounce the theft and robbery of the cow, and the damaging and plundering of the Mazdayasnian settlements."

The cow was seen as a gift under the protection of Mazda.

Masonic Lite - so now Albert Pike has stolen the Tracing Board from the Northern Jurisdiction Rite and used it in his new 32nd Degree Rite - he just kept all the symbolism and somehow changed it all so that "The Camp" no longer referred to the Templar Aspects of the rite?

Oh Masonic Lite - you do me proud!
In utter desperation to try to convince yourself that the ritual as published in "The Book Of Ancient Accepted Scottish Rite Freemasonry (1888)" is NOT the real macoy you now claim that the real thing is a Satanic Ritual calling upon the Aryan ancesters in Madam Blavatsky style!
You really have outdone yourself this time - as tempted as I am to go around telling everyone you've finally 'fessed up to being "a devil worshipping baby eater etc...." I'll just let it slide because I know you're lying.

AGNI -- USHAS -- MITRA....ROFLMAO

Originally posted by MrNECROS
Satanic Ritual calling upon the Aryan ancesters in Madam Blavatsky style!
You really have outdone yourself this time - as tempted as I am to go around telling everyone you've finally 'fessed up to being "a devil worshipping baby eater etc....

I have to admit, I feel tempted to go around telling everyone that you are a devil worshipping baby eater.

www.drevil666.com...

"Mr NECROS
London, UK
Evil Unlimited - For All Your Evil Needs...
Still I hesitate when darkness calls. My filthy Christian Ideals imprison me within that cage that calls itself society. It will only take one more cut and I will be able to walk to the otherside to live upon the flesh of my former fellow men...yet still not now."

From here: www.drevil666.com...

Heck dude. You even state that you're keen on eating a few people!!!! Tell me Necros - do you cook 'em first? Salt and pepper?
Jeez. You've got issues.




[edit on 16-3-2005 by Leveller]

Originally posted by akilles
A completely different ritual with a completely different meaning.
So you have undergone both?

Not a "completely different meaning" the teachings of the degrees are basically the same, but a "completely different ritual" yes.

No, I haven't undergone both. But I have a copy of both. As well as several other versions. All of which are similar in some aspects, but not identical.

Originally posted by Masonic Light
You've been told this about a million times before: McLenachan's monitor describes a 32° ritual based on the workings of the ritual by the Supreme Council of the Northern Jurisdiction USA and Supreme Council of England. This version of the 32° is ok I guess, but you've completely missed the point here: the Southern Jurisdiction uses the Albert Pike Version, which is a completely different ritual with a completely different meaning. I've even given you sources where you can read the basics of the ritual yourself ("A Bridge To Light" by Rex Hutchens, "Legenda of the 32°" by Albert Pike, and Chapter 32 of Morals and Dogma).

The Pike Version isn't about Templary; the Templar degrees of the Southern Jurisdiction are the 27°, 29°, 30°, and 33°. The 32° of the Pike System is concerned with philosophy, not chivalry, and is based in the symbolism of Zoroastrianism and the Magi.

Simply put, the ritual you claim is the 32° is no such thing; hell, a closer description of the real degree can be read on anti-Masonic site here:

www.dccsa.com...

The interpretations there (for example, claiming that Ahura Mazda and Mithra are supposed to be the devil) are certainly ludicrous, but the basic description of the ceremony itself is generally accurate, or, at least more so than yours.

[edit on 15-3-2005 by Masonic Light]

ML,

We're all wasting our time on Necros. He's CONVINCED what he has is current. And since he'll NEVER see the actual degrees of Freemasonry conferred (without risking the loss of his girlfriend or toilet again...) He'll never know. Probably best to let him believe that the book he has is NOT a 100+ year old Monitor of the Northern Masonic Jurisdiction rituals, which today bear little resemblance (except in title) to the non-esoteric portions contained in that book.


In the other thread he said it was apparent that no one had CTM's book but him, when I've plainly told him I have three copies. He also made the bold claim that it (The Book...) was closely guarded by the Sup. Council. Funny how CTM himself held copyright. . . and after his death, his WIFE held copyright. Must be SOME BIG SECRET.

I am glad he posted the link to the site, though. I generally scan my older Masonic books and created PDF files of the text. He saved me the trouble of scanning this one. I downloaded the individual pages from the web-site and stacked them using PaperPort and created a PDF of the whole book. It's quite nice.

Thanks Necro, for doing something useful for a change

[edit on 16-3-2005 by senrak]

Mr. Necros - you are a *SERIOUSLY* Wacked Out Nut Case - You should seek some Professional Psychiatric Help & STRONG Anti-Psychotic Medicine!

So the Free-Masons are the "Bad Guys" huh (or so you say) - It looks like in Reality YOU are the Bad Guy
"Mr. Insano" - I DEFINITLY would not like to be alone in a room with you (Scary Thought) - although I have Chilled Out with Free-Masons in Person & had Conversations with them - no problem there - just average Normal Guys!


[edit on 16-3-2005 by Seraphim_Serpente]

[edit on 16-3-2005 by Seraphim_Serpente]

Originally posted by senrak
We're all wasting our time on Necros. He's CONVINCED what he has is current. And since he'll NEVER see the actual degrees of Freemasonry conferred (without risking the loss of his girlfriend or toilet again...) He'll never know.

I agree. I think we should stop wasting our time trying to dispute his claims about masonry, and spend all that time posting about what a nut job he is. Discredit him that way.

Originally posted by senrak



I don't see that a nerve has been hit. Fact remains Chas. T. McClenachan's "Book of the Ancient & Accepted Scottish Rite" was a Monitor (exoteric portions of ritual) for the Northern Masonic Jurisdiction (a Jurisdiction plagued with "Cerneauism" and other schism from it's beginning) and NOT the so-called "Mother Supreme Council" (the Southern Jurisdiction) What you've posted from CTM's book is not only NOT secret...it's no longer current. The NMJ has revised it's rituals continuously for many years. So much so that they barely resemble the rituals of other Supreme Councils (even those of the SJ in Washington DC)

correct me if i am wrong, but its seems to me that some SR mason treat the NJ like a red headed stepchild.

...and I read the 32nd Chapter of Morals and Dogma and a Bridge to light yesterday. Here is an interesting piece from M&D P. 855

You have been taught this in those Degrees, conferred in the Lodge of Perfection, which inculcate particularly the practical morality of Freemasonry. To be true, under whatever temptation to be false; to be honest in all your dealings, even if great losses should be the consequence; to be charitable, when selfishness would prompt you to close your hand, and deprivation of luxary or comfort must follow the charitable act; to judge justly and impartially, even in your own case, when baser impulses prompt you to do an injustice in order that you may be benefited or justified ; to be tolerant, when passion prompts to intolerance and persecution; to do that which is right, when the wrong seems to promise larger profit; and to wrong no man of anything that is his, however easy it may seem so to enrich yourself;-in all these things and others which you promised in those degrees, your spiritual nature is taught and encouraged to assert its rightful dominion over your appetites and passions.

The philosophical degrees have taught you the value of knowledge, the excellence of truth, the superiority of intellectual labor, the dignity and value of your soul, the worth of great and noble thoughts; and thus endeavored to assist you to rise above the level of the animal appetites and passions, the pursuits of greed and the miserable struggles of ambition, and to find purer pleasure and nobler prizes and rewards in the acquisition of knowledge, the enlargement of the intellect, the interpretation of the sacred writing of God upon the great pages of the Book of Nature.

It sounds like a pretty good organaisation to me.

For the few that stayed on topic on this page, thanks.

Originally posted by svcadet32
correct me if i am wrong, but its seems to me that some SR mason treat the NJ like a red headed stepchild.

The Ancient & Accepted Scottish Rite, Southern Jurisdiction (note the word "Masonic" is not used in the title for some reason) and the Ancient & Accepted Scottish Rite, Northern Masonic Jurisdiction are two separate and distinct Supreme Councils. The NMJ (like all Supreme Councils) was chartered by or in direct lineage from the SJ, other than that there is no connection, no overlap. So they're neither child nor step-child. They're a sovereign body. I was merely pointing out the differences between the two ritual-wise....and there are a LOT of differences.

Originally posted by senrak

Originally posted by svcadet32
correct me if i am wrong, but its seems to me that some SR mason treat the NJ like a red headed stepchild.

The Ancient & Accepted Scottish Rite, Southern Jurisdiction (note the word "Masonic" is not used in the title for some reason) and the Ancient & Accepted Scottish Rite, Northern Masonic Jurisdiction are two separate and distinct Supreme Councils. The NMJ (like all Supreme Councils) was chartered by or in direct lineage from the SJ, other than that there is no connection, no overlap. So they're neither child nor step-child. They're a sovereign body. I was merely pointing out the differences between the two ritual-wise....and there are a LOT of differences.

Thanks for correcting me.

How can there be LOTs of Differences if they both use the same "Tracing Board"?
A tracing board is the "map of the degree" - if a ritual is significantly different it would have to have a significantly different Tracing Board.
Nope I'm afraid you are just making this up as you go along, besides this is "The Ancient Accepted Scottish Rite" - it is uniform in most respects, hense why it is "Accepted."

Anyway, as it stands at the moment your current BS is thus:
This is ...ummmm...not the Ancient Accepted Scotish Rite because ....ummmm...we have said so 30-40 times and we keep saying so....and you can't know what it is because it's really a Satanic Ritual ....ummm no its not....ahhhhh...you are an idiot...etc....etc...

Anyway if you feel like having a bit of a peek at all the hocus pocus mumbo jumbo that your worshipful masters get up to when you're not around, feel free to download the full work and have a good old read.

The posts of Mr. NECROS remind me of a film critic whom I always listen to because I invariably disagree completely with what he thinks and consequently always get to see a film I like.

If you actually read the complete opposite meaning into his posts you will find they are consistently accurate and sometimes quite perceptive.

PILLS Mr. Necros - Remember you NEED LOTS & LOTS of PILLS - now go see your Head Shrink!

Ok, enough with the innuendo. Topic please.

You know, its true that guys like me and MrNecros do a better job recruiting for the Masons than you guys do for yourselves.

Look at all the 18 year old kids we've got clamoring over this place. They believe US, they suck up to you. Perfect system, even they know they can't trust a word out of your mouth until they are your 'Brothers'.

The only way we can expect an honest answer is for someone who has undergone both degrees to come forward. If there is no such person, we will take MrNecros word for it, because he has MUCH less reason to lie, and DENY than any Freemason.