The Dark Side of "Conspiracy Theory"

Originally posted by Skyfloating
* 70% of all "information" in the conspiracy-theory, paranormal, UFO and political circus is false.

Isn't the main stream media more dangerous because it is just as false and unquestioned by the majority?

Originally posted by Skyfloating
The entire point being that both "alternative media" and "mass-media" value site traffic over truth. I think this is detrimental to society.

I wholeheartedly agree.
The problem is that the social/ points/ reward/recognition system here is geared to garner a high quantity of threads and less quality threads.

I'm not perfect, I've posted a few silly and needless threads myself but when you have thousands of members who are on a flag quest to turn their contribution badge pretty colors then they will just continue to add as many sensationalist bs threads as they can think of to get those flags.

How can the site deny ignorance when the reward system encourages high quantity sensationalist threads to get those flags?

[edit on 25-7-2009 by badgerprints]

Of course the majority is BS, this is the internet, the most free flowing source of information and opinions humanity has ever known. The printing press has nothing on this stunning explosion of human expression known as 'the net' that we take for granted.

So perhaps I accept your 70% figure, and perhaps its vastly underrated/overrated. Just as that number would apply to any human discource - humans are mainly bs due to the reasons mentioned in the OP. Its not the bs we should concern ourselves with, though. Its the remaining 30% that actually means something.

There is a core truth - an objective reality. Some of these so called 'conspiracy theories' come dangerously closer to a more truthful outlook than the vast majority of the mainstream BS out there, that is demostraitably false or misleading. It is this skirting with a deeper understanding that makes this site and others so valuble. In watching the MSN news we can be almost certain that what we are viewing is ultimately falsehood or dishonest. But delving into the net we can know that some seblance of the truth is out there, albeit distorted by perceptions, misinfo, COINTELLPRO and downright stupidity, but fragments of it none the less, that should be seen as diamonds amongst the rough when verified as things with actual substance in that 30% range.

Without the net and the CS's that inhabit it, i personally would have never awoken to such truisms as 9-11 truth, the NWO, eugenics, central banking and so many other topics that are verifiable but unspoken in a world of set agendas and talking points. As mad as many of us may be, I thank all us wackos out there for questioning, however insanely, the accepted reality. Its the only path to true enlightenment.

Originally posted by surfer_soul
reply to post by Frith

 

False information is infact the seed of war, strife and most of humanitys problems! False or even manipulated info i.e propaganda is well understood to get people onside to something they would normally be against!

Had Skyfloating typed that false information is the "original seed" of some and not all problems I couldn't say much about it. However he did not. And you're trying to tell me its the cause of most of mankind's problems. You're providing no examples. Just like Skyfloating.

The "original seed" of some (not all) of man's problems are basic mindsets of desire like want, desperation, and greed. These mindsets can manifest themselves externally as a lie and turn into something else, but conspiracy theories are not the "original seed" of all or many of mankind's problems.

What Skyfloating is doing is stoking the fires here trying to throw an apparently baseless opinion out here knowing the type of reaction it would get. And he's gotten you and many others to agree to it without so much as single shred of evidence for his beliefs.

I often tell those seeking to dive into the pool of "Conspiracy" that they refrain from drinking the water. It tastes bad and often makes you sick.

Originally posted by Doctor G
I love that saying "take it with a pinch of salt". Conspiracy starts when you don't know what happened but you like one version over another. Great thread with wonderful responses. On the ufolofy reply, I hate to burst your bubble. My buddy, who would actually know because his clearence is way higher than mine, says there are no ufos. We (the secret we who does not want anyone to know) know what they all are so they are not "unidentified". So is it a question of how high your clearence is before you know the truth or is it still a conspiracy?

No clearance, except the highest of the high may know this information. Unless your friend is one of the highest clearances of all mankind, that is to say, clearances we have never even heard of, he will not know the truth. Compartmentalization would have taken care of that. Even the President of the U.S. (Jimmy Carter) couldn't get that information upon demand and the promise to the people of the United States as he was denied by George H.W. Bush the head of the C.I.A. at the time.......again, lending credit to my aforementioned text that conspiracies are more real than fiction. Since when does a subordinate in the chain of command deny the pinnacle of the chain access to secret documentation? This suggests that the head of the C.I.A had more clearance than our President who we are led to believe is the HEAD of our country. Furthermore, it suggests that our President is more like a public "whipping dog" or "focal point" for public opinion and nothing more.

[edit on 25-7-2009 by Phenomium]

Ok you disinfo agent and government shill. How much is the CIA paying you to moderate this website and try to discredit legit research into serious issues? I hope the NWO is paying you well although, we the people will soon get rid of you scum.

(Now the above statement is completely sarcastic on my part. I know I have to actually put this in here because people would believe that I was being serious.)

All kidding aside, I think you're right about a lot of your information. I have only been researching this stuff for a short time, though, and I know I still have a long way to go, but I still feel myself as a pretty logical person and I'm open minded. I look at all sides of a story before I make a decision on what I feel is true or not. It's kind of funny too, since I've been researching conspiracy theories trying to find the truth, I think I've become more confused than before I started. It seems that every other day I'm finding something that shatters my belief system because I can stop believing in something and admit that I'm wrong if more viable information comes along to the contrary. I started out with infowars and became hooked on that website and actually suffered from some of the symptoms that you had in your OP. I was paranoid, thought I was somehow more informed than others and laughed at the "sheeple", and gullible (which I'll admit I still am with a lot of stuff.) After going on that website though for a few months I realized how I turned into a different type of sheep, no different than the ones that the Jones' people criticize for watching the MSM. I was regurgitating the same exact information that I was getting almost verbatim and one day I realized that almost all of the comments on the articles there were doing the same thing along with people on youtube doing it. The amount of hatred, racism, and paranoia on there was enough to make my head spin once I got out of the spell I was in and if you even criticize him or any of the stories, you're automatically deemed a government shill or disinformation agent or troll. There are no reasonable arguments that actually take place on there it's just mass hysteria. I still read the website every day, and still read the comments as well, but I don't listen to his podcast anymore since he blew up swine flu like he did on New Year's Eve in 1999. Besides, the going crazy every 10 minutes was really starting to get old and just annoying, but that's just my opinion.

I also like the fact that you had probably 4-5 people ask you the same exact question and you answered said question twice, and there's still people that ask it. If people are going to read a thread, actually go through all the responses, and read them all or at least glance over them and at the very least read what the author of the thread says when he responds to something. This is only a 3 page thread so far. I could understand if it were 20 pages and you answered it in page 14 and some people just don't have the patience to read that much, but it's not a whole lot to read as of yet. Great way to bring some heat to the table. I personally love taking the opposing view of a popular subject just to see people get upset and angry that you don't believe what they do.

Originally posted by projectvxn
I often tell those seeking to dive into the pool of "Conspiracy" that they refrain from drinking the water. It tastes bad and often makes you sick.

Agreed, yet what do you do when your government gives you nothing pure to drink?

[edit on 25-7-2009 by Phenomium]

This thread highlights a point that has bothered me for a very long time now. There are no forums discussing UFOs in a scientific framework anywhere on the internet. Try heading to Physorg, BadAstronomy, et. al. and you'll find people ridicule & laugh off the subject because it so strongly attracts conspiracy theorists. It doesn't matter how strong of an argument you make using solid data or even if you swear-off the conspiracy angle in favor of foul-up.

Granted this isn't purely the fault of conspiracy nutters, it's equally due to bias against "contactees" and "abduction" reports. Regardless I find conspiracy activists tend to derail discussion of subjects that are in a fledgling state of trying to be understood. Thereby causing people who might otherwise be curious to investigate to flee in horror.

Not everything's a conspiracy! Conspiracy theorists often times do more harm than good because they discourage honest analysis.

It annoys me to no end to realize I'm stuck discussing the UFO subject on a damned conspiracy forum, when I don't even think there's a conspiracy around the UFO subject.

Originally posted by Skyfloating

 

Its difficult to get quality journalism from someone who wants to sell you something or wants to make friends.

Someone who has nothing to gain or loose is more likely to report reliable information.

Yes! I already wanted to reply earlier on in this thread and I made a point as one of my first posts about what can we believe these days and you post says it so eloquently so yeah S+F.

One other thing I wanted to add (my bad if it's been posted in between this post and the last) is that I've begun to wonder if our conspiracy theories are the conspiracies themselves? You can almost turn anything the govt or corporations do into something sinister, all you need to do is find the right facts to back you up. If you look for info to make a point then you're point will more than likely be made, even if it's incorrect.

I'm just throwing it out there, but...maybe the govt is doing what is needed but the masses get influenced against it and hence over time we get anarchy...is that what the extreme conspiracy theorists wanted? Maybe.

Thanks again Sky, loved your post, it hits home pretty hard.

reply to post by Xtraeme


What worse than that is that the REAL cases often go overlooked and the bs, highly speculative, hoax cases get all the attention---That very attention is what makes mainstream scoff at us. I feel your anger and we all on this site and around the world should really start to take a much more unified and scientific approach to ufology, rather than the disorganized chaos and popularity contest it is now. Right now it is who can claim the biggest and most wild story (for the most part). In fact the UFO forum on ATS is a perfect reflection of the rest of ufology. The most elaborate, exciting, and entertaining cases, that are in reality a hoax or something that doesn't deserve that kind of attention, end up being the ones that get all the attention, and sadly when it is pointed out to be a hoax or dead end it falls right back on the ufology communities lap. This is not good, it is time for a change.

Originally posted by Phenomium

Originally posted by projectvxn
I often tell those seeking to dive into the pool of "Conspiracy" that they refrain from drinking the water. It tastes bad and often makes you sick.

Agreed, yet what do you do when your government gives you nothing pure to drink?

[edit on 25-7-2009 by Phenomium]

Just try not to poison the well more through your actions and the rest leave up to time and research. So many in the "Conspiracy" crowd have no idea what they're saying and how dangerous what they say can be, ESPECIALLY if it is not true. Even if it is true the immediate course of action is never the wise one in hindsight, always be patient enough to acquire and amass enough facts to prove your assumptions and opinions wrong, especially if the goal is to prove them right.

[edit on 25-7-2009 by projectvxn]

Originally posted by Skyfloating
reply to post by GorehoundLarry

 

You disagree with a conspiracy-theorist and he often assumes you are disagreeing because you havent read some book or website or are ignorant of some info. He imagines that you only watch CNN and believe everything the government says.

The "I have info and insights that the rest of the world does not have" or "I am one of the select people in the know about the secret machinations of the world" is like a mind-trap that makes it look like everyone except oneself is completely ignorant.

The psychology involved is pretty amazing to watch...

Yes that is true, I've encountered this many times myself and at first it was annoying, but now it's just funny.

I was actually thinking about this today and now come across your thread. I would like to say its pretty good.
Much of what is said is based on personal experiences. It is through personal experience that tends to give that extra tickle to awaken someone.
What matters first and foremost in any situation is you. You yourself only know what path you can lead and not what others tell you. If its anyone that needs to trully be free is you.
If you absolutely find it so fantastic that you need to tell the world it would not matter one iota as its not their experience.
But then again another feeling wells up inside me when i feel so much joy that other people need to know and feel what i feel, i cant selfishly keep it to myself.
Therein leads the problem of the meaning to be Free!

The author of this thread forgot hope.

Those who conclude that I am a "disinfo agent" (Ive been called this many times on this site and sites like it) have bought into the conspiracy-theory-cult to an extent that they are no longer able to discern reality from irreality. While most think that this is "OK", its actually not OK. Approving of a culture that thinks mental illness is "OK" is an even more serious problem than the mental illness itself.

WOW exactly what I have said time and time again. Too many on here cannot discern reality from non-reality. They live on assumptions that no western media can be trusted if it disagrees with their own "reality". And they often trust sources 100% which are often Islamic propaganda against Jews & the West, or people who have made-up unambiguious stories on some alternate media website.

Very recently I made a few threads on the protests in Iran which didn't receive even one reply, as the majority have pre-determinations that western media is lying to them, if it disagrees with their own opinion. And I even provided my own personal evidence at times, and poked holes in almost every conspiracy theory that people claim against what I have said.

Instead I see hundreds of replies on threads that are meaningless psycho-babble. This thread and a few others being an exception to a lot of recent popular threads.

This has a danger going beyond people's psychology, and the more people don't call out Iranian Islamic regime propaganda and lies as propaganda and lies, the more chance they have of winning.


[edit on 25-7-2009 by john124]

LOL cant discern reality from non reality. What makes you think its in that order.
I cant stand reality somettimes because i know theres more to the material world created by man.
Everything to me feels like a reality. Until you receive another world view.

Originally posted by Applesandoranges
LOL cant discern reality from non reality. What makes you think its in that order.
I cant stand reality somettimes because i know theres more to the material world created by man.
Everything to me feels like a reality. Until you receive another world view.

People believe in non-reality when all the facts contradict that person's belief, leading to irrational and illogical ideas which can form no basis in reality. This leads to a lack of evidence based opinions, and instead a misinformed culture of baseless opinions that are often what somebody chooses to believe in somewhat randomly or because it fits his/her own pre-determined world view becomes prevalent in how they think, and how they post.

When somebody claims something from a personal experience, e.g. a UFO sighting possibly, or from a unique perspective which has been gained by having friends or family in fairly unique positions, are all exceptions. As our perceptions are only a tiny fraction of reality, these remain opinions but have a much better starting point that somebody who makes claims without a basis in reason or fact.

Alternatively if real and accurate sources are provided then to argue against a factual account without proper supporting evidence for why they feel it is untrue is extremely ridiculous.

This thread has to be the most diabolical one I've ever seen on here -> Natural Selection 1 Evolution 0

I dare somebody to find a worser one!

[edit on 25-7-2009 by john124]

Awesome OP. I've been thinking similar things for awhile now also.

Something else I would like to bring up,

We have to think of the teens we are influencing here at ATS too.
Sometimes it is obvious a poster is quite young and is spouting quite paranoid words at such a young age.

How are topics like the ones on this site going to affect them later in life if they accept them into their belief systems?

I think we shouldn't forget how we are influencing the younger people.

reply to post by T0by


No need to worry about the youngsters. Simply encourage them to not think about the "who/where and when"
Enlighten them on the wonderful question 'Why ?"

It is always amusing to watch and wait for the inevitable.."because........."