The Dark Side of "Conspiracy Theory"

I tend to respect you for your posts and this post is no exception.

I must say though that while I mostly agree I don't completely on all points. I wont go into it in detail but I don't think the data is the whole problem. People need to take responsibility for their actions and their beliefs, myself included. A little critical thinking goes a long way.

I agree with you, although i think you have given some moderate estimates with your figures it still gets the point across.
The problem i feel is that there are some people here that will totally misinterperate your OP, others react harshly to it while some will be positive when its them you probably are talking about. But everybody is entitled to their own opinion or reasoning i guess, even if it is like smashing ones head into a bathroom cabinet repeatedly.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
Narcissism (They are out to get me!)

That's actually paranoia, not narcissism.

narcissist - someone in love with themselves
narcissistic - egotistic: characteristic of those having an inflated idea of their own importance

Source

Interesting thread, and you have quite a following! =p

I find it highly ironic however that you used the exact same mindset to write your thread as those you are pointing out as causing this to be "dark"!

Where did you come up with 70% - do you have a citation for this, or even a mere rationale, thread count, etc for why you chose 70%? (Maybe you're just being facetious; I don't know you well enough to guess)

The parenthetical explanations after your psychological evaluations don't really match the meanings, especially if one were to compare against the DSM IV rather than public understanding of the words.

I do agree that conspiracy theory has a dark side. I would include increased anger and distrust in there as well though.

Originally posted by Deran
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That's actually paranoia, not narcissism.

Yes its paranoia. The narcissism comes in when its me they are out to get, me that knows more than others, me that is right, etc.

Narcissistic Personality Disorder - DSM IV Criteria

A pervasive pattern of grandiosity (in fantasy or behavior), need for admiration, and lack of empathy, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:

(1) has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)

(2) is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love

(3) believes that he or she is "special" and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions)

(4) requires excessive admiration

(5) has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations

(6) is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends

(7) lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others

(8) is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her

(9) shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes



www.mental-health-today.com...



[edit on 25-7-2009 by notreallyalive]

Honestly one of the best posts I've ever seen here. Kudos to you.

Originally posted by Eye of Horus
Just think of all the people that have died over thosands of years for one form of religion. You might be a smart guy but your statement is simply wrong.

Im one of the most anti-religious people around here, for the exact reasons you state - bloodshed and war. Nevertheless the majority of religious practitioners were never like that. Believing in a higher reality is what separates animals from humans.

Originally posted by notreallyalive

The parenthetical explanations after your psychological evaluations don't really match the meanings, especially if one were to compare against the DSM IV rather than public understanding of the words.

Im not familiar with the DSM definitions. I just used the words as I colloquially understand them.

(1) has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements) (2) is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love (3) believes that he or she is "special" and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions)

Yep, thats it.


[edit on 25-7-2009 by Skyfloating]

I love this post. It coincides with thoughts I've been having of my own lately, brought about by the introduction to book I had never heard of before - Amusing Ourselves To Death by Neil Postman.

In it, Postman asserts the notion that Aldous Huxley had it more correct than George Orwell. In his book 1984, Orwell's narrative made the compelling case that the inevitable bent of society toward tyranny would bring down civilization. However Huxley, in his book, A Brave New World portrayed a world crippled by entertainment or pleasure instead.

When I think of all of the information found on the web, the human hours spent on endless sites and all of the crazy ideas, far-out theories and lies mixed in with the Truth - particularly regarding provocative prospects like 9/11, NWO, Aliens or Pandemics - I have to question that 70% number just as you do.

As Postman explains it;

"Information is now a commodity that can be bought and sold, or used as a form of entertainment, or worn like a garment to enhance one's status. It comes indiscriminately, directed at no one in particular, disconnected from usefulness; we are glutted with information, drowning in information, have no control over it, don't know what to do with it."

It's that part above which I bolded that concerns me so much. How many people try to capitalize on the truth or a lie just to increase their wealth, power or status?

Additionally, in the book, Postman describes a phenomenon called the Information to Action Ratio which, essentially states:

...access to decontextualized information “made the relationship between information and action both abstract and remote.” Information consumers were “faced with the problem of a diminished social and political potency.”

So while some people use the information as a means to enhance themselves or their agenda, the end result is that the rest of us are left feeling disconnected, powerless and over-whelmed by either the sheer volume of information or the magnitude of the "issues" that don't really even affect us in our daily lives and that we can never hope to change.

So I have to agree with you, there is absolutely a "Dark Side" to "Conspiracy Theory" and it's not just the endless doom of scary speculation or the prospect of hidden agendas, but it's also the intent by those purveying these theories and the affect that it has on our collective psyche.

And before anyone asks - No - I am not referring to ATS but to the many individuals, anonymous and notorious, who spin their tales for dubious reasons, either for entertainment or for something more nefarious. It reminds me of Silent Weapons for Quiet Wars, the authenticity of which may well be doubted but certainly not the thesis - that information would be used as a weapon to kill our spirit and control society.

[edit on 25/7/2009 by kosmicjack]

Interesting... i was thinkin about this today, because i had a 'foe' here
in ATS posting some very harsh responses on a very touchy subject -
TK - that im investigating (along Caveman, DaMod, Void and others)
and recorded on video my exps.

Also today, i opened my window and the sun shined in, revealing all
the speckled reality of the little things that the air carry on, but we dont
notice it.

But one could not say that they exists untill the window is opened.

I guess we are all in some never ending plato allegory of reality, opening
new windows as the days passed... and lives pasts...



I wonder what many things i thought were false just because my
mind window never went open before.

RP

Originally posted by Skyfloating

Originally posted by Eye of Horus
Just think of all the people that have died over thosands of years for one form of religion. You might be a smart guy but your statement is simply wrong.

Im one of the most anti-religious people around here, for the exact reasons you state - bloodshed and war. Nevertheless the majority of religious practitioners were never like that. Believing in a higher reality is what separates animals from humans.

Religion is good for one thing: mass control. it's done nothing but spread false hope and cause war.

Originally posted by Skyfloating

Originally posted by surfer_soul
I agree with what your saying, but where are you getting your statistics from? Has a survey been carried out or is it more of generalisation of your own experiences?

Just a guesstimate from reading this site since 2005.



[edit on 25-7-2009 by Skyfloating]

I thought so, I reckon you could read this site from its begining to its end and form pretty much the same conclusion, one thing that facinates me though is begingings and endings, whats all that about? I have decided its all relative and theres no such thing! Crazy talk maybe or something to ponder upon, each to there own.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
Some unpopular claims I am making:

* 70% of all "information" in the conspiracy-theory, paranormal, UFO and political circus is false.

How did you come up with that percentage? Please show your work.

And what portion of the 30% of conspiracy-theory, paranormal, UFO, and political circus is it that you consider true?

* False information is the original seed of war, strife, decay of society and mental illness

Another unsubstantiated claim.

* 50% of the internet-reading-population does not care whether information is true or false. They care more for a) entertainment and b) self-importance/ego-gratification.

And yet another one. Are you trying to troll abovetopsecret.com? Because this is a good way to start out.

* Many naively think that this amount of false information is somehow "OK" and poses no serious threat to humanity.

Again you're just trying to troll the readership here.

The only other question I have is that I just don't know why you bothered to become a moderator here.

reply to post by Frith


False information is infact the seed of war, strife and most of humanitys problems! False or even manipulated info i.e propaganda is well understood to get people onside to something they would normally be against!
What people need more than anything right now, is to understand each other,
empathy goes much further than apathy in resolving any issues. Its a proven fact. False info is what gets the ignorant onside to given cause, this is why its so important to know the truth of things, before we go charging at a supposed enemy who may well be potencial friends.

reply to post by Skyfloating


Good thread, and I will agree that probably even 80% of the conspiracy theories are bs, but that 20% or so is something that , in my opinion, is truly shocking and stunning. What you said about the inflation and proliferation of false theories to sell or inflate ones ego is also to blatantly obvious. Unfortunately the public just does not want to hear the real research, especially in ufology, they want some quick story with a large entertainment value, but in reality it offers nothing but a set back to the real purpose of investigations in the paranormal or conspiracy. People are to ready to support all the crap pictures of UFOs, drones, aliens, etc, etc, mainly because they want to believe so much that they will blindly accept anything, and of course like you said, it has ENTERTAINMENT VALUE. This is the sad truth and more real cases need to be presented in manners not concerned with excess fame, money, etc. Of course I am applying your statement to ufology but you could apply this to anything really.

totally agree with the points given here,some things here go way beyond rational thought.

reply to post by kosmicjack


Good post, I agree that Aldous Huxley had it more right than Goerge Orwell, atleast in the west, maybe Orwell was thinking of China? Did you know both authors were old Etonians? Thats the famous public boarding school of Eton where most of the English aristorcracy including the royal family have been schooled. Just a bit of a connection to consider there

Yes, but removal of ANY of these freedoms to speak or share ideas despite the outcome will result in 100% slavery to the elites.

Besides, only the true black at heart will start wars and strife by using UFO's and aliens as an excuse, not to mention the intellectually challenged.
I think that the real danger lies with those who try to convince (us) that we are the problems in society by talking and discussing the evils of rogue governments and the possibilities of extraterrestrial life, when truly, the real danger lies in those who are trying to convince us. The dark side is NOT all of those things that you mentioned...the dark side is NOT KNOWING ABOUT THEM BY CENSORING THOSE OF US WHO DISCUSS THEM. I, for one, would rather filter and wade through the muck of lies, deceit, misconceptions and fantasy to find the truth for myself than to just sit back and take the word of a naysayer and someone who blames the people on this site (and the like) who question their government coupled with those who just want to step outside of reality because of a putrid existence that our government has created for them. People have a right to believe and think and discuss whatever they want.....there is a reason for the first amendment and the founding fathers were indeed, incredibly intelligent men not "dumbed down" nor were they distracted by government lies (these lies were inspirations to the founding fathers to make mankind more free). They were not distracted by television or tawdry females spinning around poles or shows like WWE (my main distraction). The LIGHTER SIDE of conspiracy theory is that (real or not) WE GET SOME INFORMATION! It is better to have a paranoid (or aware) public than one stupefied by government lies designed to ensnare them into giving all of their rights away for slavery that is just "called" democracy and freedom. Besides, it doesn't take a brain surgeon to look around you and see that the term "Conspiracy Theory" should more or less, these days, be changed to "Conspiracy Fact" as more often than not, these so called conspiracies (as the well paid main stream media would have you believe) prove to be more fact than fiction that was just covered up and lied about and called the 'dirty word' conspiracy theory to discredit anyone who questioned the government. I just heard a couple of days ago on the news, this same tactic used on (the woman on the news, MSNBC, who questioned the validity of Obama's birthplace) they started out by talking about her being nuts and then somehow it ended up with aliens and UFO's. You see? They throw everyone who questions the gov't into one basket of craziness, yet government figures who do it are called Liberals or the antithesis of the left or right-wing governments and although, disagreed with by opponents....they are never called conspiracy theorists....unless they represent the people who speak of the things that the peolple should not know! I think it would only take a moment for one to browse the internet (yes, the same internet they are trying to convince us is the greatest danger to the world and not the greatest tool to keep an eye on their already obvious wrongdoings) back on track, do a search for yourself about all of the things of the past that WERE called conspiracies.....that eventually ended up fact. JFK...RFK..., flying machines see all over the world which they tell us is a figment of our imagination (the whole world) yet, we remember the lies about "The BlackBird SR-71", "The stealth fighter and bomber" which they told us at the time THEY were spotted in the skies, that they also didn't exist, and that we were crazy for seeing them, yet later on they wheeled them out to the public and stated that they had to lie to us in the name of government secrecy for reasons like the Russians and the 'Cold War'... or the war that never was a war (go figure).How about the myriad of government figures that, even today, constantly bombard us with infidelities and thievery (ENRON, International Bankers, Federal Reserve, IRS, Blackwater, the Bushs' etc.)? I can't even count the lies told to us to get into office by most every President, most recently Bush and Obama, just to get lied to again "things are now going to get better or CHANGE", when as we know, things always just get worse. Presidential promises are like Asian food, they can sustain you for a temporal period, but they always leave you hungry for more and the food "tricks" your stomach into believing it has been satisfied, much like the lying words of every President. No, that's not conspiracy theory, this is proven by common sense alone. It is better to have all of the fine people here on ATS and other sites) and to have them 'ponder' even the most incredible claims........than to have no one to ponder at all......for if this were to happen, this would ensure the smooth transition from even the appearance of freedom to the inevitable shackles of informational and physical slavery of the likes never seen to date. This is fact! Simply by logical deduction of history's past, and we should all know, the greatest predictor of future events is historical events. We want change alright, but I have heard NO ONE ask for "change for the BETTER". Conspiracy Theory is a good thing, it is freedom of speech at it's best, that is why they want to take it from us so bad.If you associate paranoia and insanity with Conspiracy Theorists?.....Take one hard look at the men and women running our governments and our very lives and then remove the veil of darkness from your own eyes to reveal the light of the invariable truth as to just who are the crazy and insane ones truly are. The murders, the mayhem, the wars, the oppression, the lies and trickery designed for self indulgence of pecuniary wealth is not done by the hands of Conspiracy Theorists. They are, however, orchestrated with our tax dollars in tandem with the tax dollars of the common folk who believe all of the lies in the name of chest-pounding patriotism designed to separate mankind into opposing "teams", another distraction that is mutual between all goernments. The "my team is better than your team" is really a powerful tactic, that's why baseball and football are so popular. Governmentally speaking, it keeps you looking at your neighbor, not the elite. Our tax dollars spent on these calamities and sinister projects are not spent by us, they are misappropriated by the government whom we question....or theorize about.

[edit on 25-7-2009 by Phenomium]

I love that saying "take it with a pinch of salt". Conspiracy starts when you don't know what happened but you like one version over another. Great thread with wonderful responses. On the ufolofy reply, I hate to burst your bubble. My buddy, who would actually know because his clearence is way higher than mine, says there are no ufos. We (the secret we who does not want anyone to know) know what they all are so they are not "unidentified". So is it a question of how high your clearence is before you know the truth or is it still a conspiracy?