5 Freedoms You'll Lose In Health Care Reform

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
reply to post by WhatTheory

 

I'll give ya that.

That's very true. And I'd have to agree with you on the fact that we should have the right not to pay for healthcare. However, I don't think you can get around Emergency Room calls by those who don't have it. No one wants to turn away someone who needs serious assistance.


Star for you

[edit on 25-7-2009 by HunkaHunka]

Proponents of Obama's plan keep ignoring one chilling part that was mentioned once here and on a couple of other threads - the part where if you are a "senior citizen" (undefined as of now), you will be required to discuss "dying with dignity" with your doctor on a regular basis.

They want to help cut costs by hounding senior citizens into choosing assisted suicide!

Can any of you really be in favor of a program like that?

Maybe right up until you or a loved one gets a notice to appear from DHS ...

reply to post by centurion1211
speaking just for me, that is kind of the choice I have made, to exit once I become too much of a drain on society....
but, well, that is an individual choice that should never be forced upon another person!!

that being said, well, I don't agree with forcing people to hang around, especially once their bodies have broken down to the point where the benefits of life are badly overshadowed by the pain and disability.

I think I'd go ballistic if I found out our government was "hounding" people into opting for assisted suicide, wouldn't matter if it was someone I knew and charished or if it was just the little bag lady that I occarsionally saw on the streets!

reply to post by dawnstar


As always, the devil is in the details.

For example, what happens if a "senior citizen" fails to show up for their "dying with dignity" appointment? Does the government send out the police to make them go?

If that were the case, "dying with dignity" might be taking as many of those goons as possible with you ...

reply to post by centurion1211


na, they'd just send them another letter threatening to fine them or take away their healthcare for awhile......

if that didn't work, well, who knows, maybe they'd chose to force the issue, if they thought it was worth it....

it seems that the older a person gets, the more stubborn they become, the more set in their ways.....

not to mention, the more fragile, senile, inmobile, ect.....

I can't see them sending the cops out to enforce something like this, not for that group of people, more than likely it would just offend them to the extent that they'd be even more unwillingly to comply to anything they were told to do!

Just curious...what world do you live in?

A pretty favored one if you have healthcare of any sort.

I have zero coverage for anything.

I can't pick a doctor, unless he or she is free.

I used to have a health plan, but dropped it when I realized that I never used it because I couldn't afford the co-pays.

I live a healthy life with exercise, grow a lot of my own food, pesticide-free. I doubt if anyone or any government could force me to change that, denying me the bennies thereof.

I'd lay dollars to donuts that the OP has voted to control and limit other people's choices and behaviors when the issue was something they were upset over, for the "good of the community".

As far as I'm concerned, pretty much anything that makes access to some kind of healthcare for me is an improvement, because the current system completely denies me access, giving me zero choices. But I still seem to pay the taxes and costs that subsidize your plan.

reply to post by apacheman


As someone who lives in a country that has "free health care" I would like to tell you there is no such thing. You pay for it through taxes. I'm sure they won't raise the taxes tomorrow but everything the government spends money on must be payed for, there is no way around that fact.

reply to post by Jacob08

well, here in american...it seems that our gov't thinks that it doesn't have to be paid for, or at least the seem to be spending far more than they could tax out of us!!
one point I would like to make though, alot of our taxmoney IS going into the healthcare system now, universities to teach the doctors, special aide for their schooling, reasearch into new medical treatments and drugs, aid to the "poor" and "needy", vaccines, ect. ect.
ya, it would cost a little more if they took measures to make sure all had decent healthcare, but hey, at least I would be getting SOMETHING from those tax dollars!

Originally posted by dawnstar
ya, it would cost a little more if they took measures to make sure all had decent healthcare, but hey, at least I would be getting SOMETHING from those tax dollars!

A little?? Try 10 trillion in just the first 10 years.
If that is the government estimate you know it's going to be at least twice that amount because since when has the government had an accurate forcast of spending habits.
This is why Obama wants to kill everyone over 65; he wants to save on costs.

[edit on 7/26/2009 by WhatTheory]

reply to post by dawnstar


I'm very aware of the debt your nation is in because of deficit spending but it will have to be paid for at some point and in your case with years of interest. It used to be my dream to move from Australia to the US but with the way your heading recently I think I may as well just stay here. Probably wouldn't have anyway but at one point I did envy what you had.

What choices does someone who wants to live in a country with many personal and economic freedoms even have these days? Certainly not the EU, not our neighbours in New Zealand, not Canada. The increase in government control in western countries over the last decade is staggering. Next they will come for your guns, they have already taken ours.

[edit on 26-7-2009 by Jacob08]

reply to post by WhatTheory


I said to provide healthcare to all who need it, not increase the rate the money is flowing through the current black holes and create new ones......just to keep a healthcare system that is broke and falling apart afloat a few more years!

Originally posted by centurion1211

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
reply to post by WhatTheory

 

I'll give ya that.

That's very true. And I'd have to agree with you on the fact that we should have the right not to pay for healthcare. However, I don't think you can get around Emergency Room calls by those who don't have it. No one wants to turn away someone who needs serious assistance.


Star for you

[edit on 25-7-2009 by HunkaHunka]

Proponents of Obama's plan keep ignoring one chilling part that was mentioned once here and on a couple of other threads - the part where if you are a "senior citizen" (undefined as of now), you will be required to discuss "dying with dignity" with your doctor on a regular basis.

They want to help cut costs by hounding senior citizens into choosing assisted suicide!

Can any of you really be in favor of a program like that?

Maybe right up until you or a loved one gets a notice to appear from DHS ...

Some of us though are just sick and tired (no pun intended) of the current system where giant corporations make huge profits off the sick and refuse treatment to people who have paid for 12+ years...

That's pretty much the same thing if you ask me.

I'd really like some alternatives to be suggested by the anti-obama plan folks instead of the FUD they are spewing now.

The concerns folks like yourself bring up are valid, but they don't offer alternatives to solve the current problem we have.

At what point does this turn into a discussion and not a political battle?


Oh I forgot.... it's already a a political battle and some republicans are not even interested in providing alternatives... they are only interested in using this political issue to "Break Obama".

theplumline.whorunsgov.com...

It's a sad state of affairs when the folks who were elected to represent us are simply representing their own interests...



[edit on 26-7-2009 by HunkaHunka]

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
reply to post by eradown

 

Do you really think this is about thinning the herd? It's about saving medicare from it's inevitable demise.

The babyboomers are going to need something, and there is not enough funding for it to grow so rapdily.


[edit on 25-7-2009 by HunkaHunka]

The Baby boomers are exactly the people who will be thinned. They have always demanded the best treatment for themselves ,and they have been more than willing to raise the underworld when they felt slighted. They are a contentious lot ,but I don't want to encourage them or anyone else to shuffle off before their time.

This is about control just like with the public school system if the beaurocrats are not put in a position of control they will not be quite so willing to push this plan. Make healthcare a voucher system and you will see support among the statists wane. As the plan stands now, I suspect if you vote for the wrong person, you will find yourself in the office of Dr.Mengele.



[edit on 26-7-2009 by eradown]

reply to post by dawnstar


Do you honestly think increased government control will reduce costs? "Free health care" might raise the standard of care for the average person but it's going to cost you a lot of money and I don't see how it's going to be paid for without raising taxes. How much more debt can you go into?

I know "free health care" sounds like it's really good but it's not free and should never be described as free because it isn't. You still pay, the only difference is you no longer have the choice not to pay and if you want better service under a private health plan you pay twice.

[edit on 26-7-2009 by Jacob08]

Originally posted by Jacob08
reply to post by dawnstar

 

Besides people who can't afford it getting low standards of healthcare what about your health care system do you believe to be broken?

I know you didn't ask me... but here is the biggest problem.

Making profit off human sickness while at the same time denying coverage to people who have duly paid for over a decade.

We need to remove the profit motive from:

Healthcare

Prisons

And a few other things as well...

reply to post by HunkaHunka


You caught that before I was able to edit it out. I realised my mistake the moment I posted because I don't want to go into the ethical debate. I'm not going to go there because if I spelled out what I believe to be the realities of the world people would think I'm a monster. However I will say this - capitalism was not the system that could not provide basic needs for people, such as food, socialism was. That said, a corrupt capitalist society is almost as bad as a socialist one.

reply to post by Jacob08


umm...okay, someone responded to a post susposted made by you asking me what I thought was broken about our current healthcare system./....

how's this for starters....

are you sure the monster is being paid for now?? I mean, come on, I think the current system could bring bill gates down under the right circumstances.....we've let the monster get so hyperinflated, why not, we ain't paying for it.....right.....well, now, the governments have to overtax the citizens just to provide funding for the few they do help. companies that have chosen to help their employees out, are finding it more and more difficult. and well, if you are just a lonely individual with no connections....you are out of luck!! but, that only leaves on group left....the insurance companies....who well, seems to me, they must be having a hard time meeting their obligations, considering how much money they are spending to lobby congress for the next windfall and hiring lawyers to find little loopholes in the policies and defend their judgement to deny coverage for this that and the other thing!!
any business that was charging that kind of money for their goods and services would be dead a long time ago!!! unfortunately, healthcare is a necessity, and even more unfortunate, the gov't feels the need to provide this necessity for some of it's members. so, well, our tax money will keep the beast fed till we are all just hopeless wards of the state and there's no money left to take from the population to feed the beast.

reply to post by dawnstar


That's actually an accurate assessment of the situation. Can't find anything to disagree with and I was wrong i my previous post, your system is broken. It's just less broken then other systems.

reply to post by centurion1211

They want to help cut costs by hounding senior citizens into choosing assisted suicide! Can any of you really be in favor of a program like that?

Can you provide any references to that? I am very interested finding out more.

I also think that these lost freedoms are not really relevant if you are unemployed as many Americans are or poor. Maybe a half way method is best like in Canada and France.

[edit on 123131p://pm3125 by masonwatcher]

reply to post by masonwatcher


That's a great point.

With unemployment rising to record levels (10.7% in Atlanta, 10% in Georgia overall) the thought of getting healthcare from your employer is quickly becoming obsolete.

Now I will add that it also makes less sense to pay for it out of income taxes as well in this situation....


I think we have to solve the tax issue first though. I think we need to repeal income tax and replace it with sales tax or something of the kind.


[edit on 26-7-2009 by HunkaHunka]

Someone is confident the bill will pass.....maybe not today, next week or next month.....but it will pass. I say impeach them ALL.