5 Freedoms You'll Lose In Health Care Reform

reply to post by kingoftheworld


He became president in a nation that's terrified of anyone who can speak in complete sentences and is actually knowledgable about how the constitution works. I think that's punishment enough.

reply to post by Darthorious
Well, you are right ,but Rockefeller certainly has his hand in this. Hillary's people have told stories of Rockefeller calling Hillary up all the time pestering her about healthcare. To many things such as elder death counceling and lack of choice fall in line with what Rockefeller would like.



[edit on 24-7-2009 by eradown]

This is hilarious...


As if we have freedoms with the system we have now!

We have the freedom to be denied claims even though we have paid for 12+ years

We have the freedom to be denied access to health at all because we have prior conditions including those from birth which are asymptomatic.

We have the freedom as business owners to watch the premiums we pay on behalf of our employees rise 130% in the last 5 years, with no end in sight.


How come the author doesn't describe these situations as well?



[edit on 24-7-2009 by HunkaHunka]

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
This is hilarious...


As if we have freedoms with the system we have now!

No one has ever told me what Doctor I could or could not use. I have always been free to pay more for a Doctor I thought was excellent. If our government will tax everyone into oblivion they should at least make sure that people have excellent healthcare ,but this is not what some people want. Some people want the herd culled. My suggestion is you become good friends with a witch doctor or run for office (the politicians want a different plan for themselves).

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
This is hilarious...

As if we have freedoms with the system we have now!

Umm....yes! I'm not saying I agree with any of your points but at least with the current system you have the freedom to NOT have health insurance. Under Obama's dictatorship, that is NOT the case. You will be forced into his plan whether you like it or not and will be continually fined if you don't bow to his plan.

So basically, under Obama's plan, you must pay into his system just for the privledge of being an American.

reply to post by WhatTheory


I'll give ya that.

That's very true. And I'd have to agree with you on the fact that we should have the right not to pay for healthcare. However, I don't think you can get around Emergency Room calls by those who don't have it. No one wants to turn away someone who needs serious assistance.


Star for you

[edit on 25-7-2009 by HunkaHunka]

reply to post by eradown


Do you really think this is about thinning the herd? It's about saving medicare from it's inevitable demise.

The babyboomers are going to need something, and there is not enough funding for it to grow so rapdily.


[edit on 25-7-2009 by HunkaHunka]

reply to post by TheOracle


Civilized is such a nice word.


Kind of like when Europe "Civilized" Africa. Right?

Check out this quote from Nancy Pelosi regarding Obama's Healthcare Plan being a "GIFT":
Transcript

I am very confident that we will be on schedule, and we will be able to present a wonderful gift to the American people, a gift of confidence, a gift of peace of mind

She must really be on drugs or something. How stupid does she think we are? Isn't there a saying which says something like "Beware of people bearing gifts"

[edit on 7/25/2009 by WhatTheory]

Perhaps one of the freedoms you Americans will lose with these new health reforms is that very special one reserved for the working poor ... the freedom to attend the annual Wise County medical field hospital.

For this weekend thousands of American citizens feel compelled to attend an encampment of tents in a field in Virginia, in order to receive the most basic health care.

It’s not yet 5 a.m., but people are emerging from their cars, a few scurrying to pack up tents and camp stoves, bustling to be ready, hoping to have the opportunity to receive health care. As wisps of pink sunlight began coloring the clouds, the masses huddle at the gate under a misty dawn, waiting for their numbers to be called. The grassy parking lot is full. Beyond the fence, the cars are stacked up for miles. A snake of headlights is visible in the semi-dark along the curvy length of Hurricane Road, waiting to access the Wise County Fairgrounds. These are the modern-day breadlines: people desperate not for food, but for health care.

Wise County Annual Free Hospital

It's a sight not witnessed in any other Western country. To my untrained eye it's more akin to healthcare some third world warzone than in any civilised country I recognise.

Your country, I guess. Your priorities.

But it's not very easy on the eye, nicht wahr ?

Originally posted by Ulala
Your country, I guess. Your priorities.

But it's not very easy on the eye, nicht wahr ?

Firstly, when you say free, it brings out everyone who has been hiding under a rock.
Secondly, at least they are getting instant and immediate care instead of having to wait 3 to 6 months for a procedure. And yes, these same people could walk right into any hospital and get the same instant care.

I encourage everyone to do something really different (different for some) and read HR 3200 for themselves, and get a sense of what it means, rather than substituting the opinions of both detractors and supporters of the bill.

reply to post by WhatTheory


Laura Head hasn't been hiding under a rock.

She claims to have visited the Emergency Room 100 times for dental pain. All she can afford are antibiotics. She can't afford the real treatment she needs because she only earns $6.55 per hour. Perhaps an exaggeration on the number of ER visits, I'll grant you that. But it rather says something that someone will sit in a tent, in a field, to have their teeth sorted.

Although it's not all trivia such as dental pain ...

... a young woman, 19 or 20 years old, who is dying of cervical cancer for the simple reason that she didn’t have the money for follow-up care after an abnormal screening result.

... patients who have cut back on their blood pressure medication or other needed care because of cost – and, as a result, come to her with permanent organ damage and worsening health.

People with cancer sitting in a tent in a field just to get some treatment ?

That's akin to the Dark Ages.

But hey. Your country. You know best.

How about the most fundamental freedom people gain,
to live [in good health ] and get the care people paid for..
[for the poorer people amongst us]

[edit on 26-7-2009 by Foppezao]

[edit on 26-7-2009 by Foppezao]

Originally posted by Ulala
She claims to have visited the Emergency Room 100 times for dental pain.

Well, go to a dentist and NOT a hospital for dental pain.

Look, most states have local free clinics to help people with these sort of issues. We don't have the full complete story of this lady but I'm sure it's not as cut and dry as you like to portray it. I'm sure we could find some supposedly disaster stories where you live also so stop cherry picking because it is not helping your case.

You know best.

Yes, I do. Thanks for noticing.
Still better than your country.

Originally posted by Foppezao
How about the most fundamental freedom people gain,
to live [in good health ]
[for the poorer people amongst us]

[edit on 26-7-2009 by Foppezao]

Look, government is NOT the answer no matter how you want to slice it.
Why on Earth would you want the government to control your healthcare. The government is inept at running anything.

Let's see....Welfare, Medicaid, Medicare & USPS are just a few programs which the government cannot control. These programs are infested with waste and fraud plus they are bankrupt. Why would you want to continue this trend with a government run socialist healthcare system?

Plus, medical costs, coverage and treatment was really never a option before the government got involved. I am talking about the HMO Act.
This is another program pushed and mandated by government which started the decline in affordable costs.
History of HMO's

[edit on 7/26/2009 by WhatTheory]

I am not a fan of this broad sweep by the Obama administration in terms of redefining healthcare in America. However, our current system is out of control and definitely could use a look over and possible adjustments made to level the playing field. Our current system is the best in world and with some of the finest technological advancements in care, however, the average everyday Joe has to be a millionaire to utilize the American health system to it's full potential.

We see many renowned celebraties and politicians beat cancer all the time but if one of you or your loved ones get the disease it is almost a guaranteed death sentence. They may be able to bring the cancer into remission with the chemo and other treatment options, but more often than not, the cancer reemerges and ultimately kills the person. I have seen this first hand with friends and family. Plus, there is a chilling affect about the doctor and that is when one waits to see how much they are charged for a visit. So they continue to put off a ticking time bomb in the body as a means to not get raked over the coals financial for healthcare

A guy I work with told me he went to the doctor for a back injury and the doctor charged him 600 dollars for a 15 minute procedure and he had the company's health plan. His health care provider refused his claim and he had to pay for the procedure out of pocket. Six-hundred-dollars for a 15 minute procedure, c'mon, that is absolutely ridiculous! It is probably cheaper for someone to tell the American Joseph Mengele to throw them in the ground and toss dirt on them and that is a little sarcasm. However, I am in the boat that the US healthcare industry is a horror show and the matter needs to be addressed.

This is the political third rail like Social Secretary and I commend the President for at least bringing it up. Politicians fear the reprisals they will receive from lobbyists and big Healthcare corporations if they try and muscle them out when they cut off campaign contributions during election time. To set the record strait, I am no fan of our current President and his aggressive and sweeping policies, but no one can deny that healthcare really needs a turn around from what we currently have at the moment. I don't see this problem being able to get fixed in a matter of months like the President would like everyone to believe. I see healthcare as like a body and the President wants to cut off the head which will kill the patient, instead of say, removing a arm or a leg that is afflicted with gangrene. If I were the President, I would follow the old adage "Rome wasn't built in a day." He has still got a long time to get this done if he is patience and covers all angles before revamping healthcare.



[edit on 26-7-2009 by Jakes51]

reply to post by Kevin_X2

1. Freedom to choose what's in your plan
...
2. Freedom to be rewarded for healthy living, or pay your real costs
...
3. Freedom to choose high-deductible coverage
...
4. Freedom to keep your existing plan
...
5. Freedom to choose your doctors
...

1....well, if I chose not to go with the plan that my employer offers, well, the cost doesn't fit into our budget...this one aready seems to be lost.....

2....on the other hand, we are losing our freedom to live our lives as we wish, regardless of how much our life choices are really affecting your wallet.....a person could be completely out of the healthcare loops because of the way it's set up, but still have to listen to people gripe about how their choices are affecting you wallet, so they should change their behavior!! even have some of those freedoms revoked.....
and all the while, something completely unrelated to any of their decisions being bad for their health are making their life hell.....and well, if they try to get treatment for it, well, it buries them economically long before a diagnosis is stumbled upon!

3....or well, forced into a high deductable coverage when well, a low deductable one would be more appropriate?

4. right now, at least for the next year, I am forced to keep my current plan.

5. the plan we had before this one, if I understood them right, had it so that you had to be in with this certain group of healthcare providers or you would end up paying considerable more......and the little credit card I have, (since that healthcare provider won't carry a balance more than 30 days....well, they seem only to cater to that one provider.

seems like I don't have any of these freedoms now???

Originally posted by TheOracle
About time the US catches up with the rest of the civilized world

Yes one common theme of the rest of the world is having less freedoms than are enjoyed in America. I know your nation has already lost a lot of it's freedoms and standing in the world but it's still much better then almost anywhere else. Which is why there are more people wanting to get into America then there are people wanting to get out.

[edit on 26-7-2009 by Jacob08]

Originally posted by WhatTheory

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
This is hilarious...

As if we have freedoms with the system we have now!

Umm....yes! I'm not saying I agree with any of your points but at least with the current system you have the freedom to NOT have health insurance. Under Obama's dictatorship, that is NOT the case. You will be forced into his plan whether you like it or not and will be continually fined if you don't bow to his plan.

So basically, under Obama's plan, you must pay into his system just for the privledge of being an American.

I completely agree, and I want to take it one step further. I see no need for me, as a citizen, to be FORCED to pay into the SOCIALIST police and fire programs in my community.

Oftentimes, when I'm sitting around cleaning my guns, I feel like I'm wasting my money by having my taxes go towards paying for police service. I can defend myself, thank you. And I have a spigot with a hose attached to it, as do my neighbors. Why should our taxes go towards MANDATORY police and fire service? It's an outrage. I should have the FREEDOM to opt out of these services.

Everyone knows that the police can take A LONG TIME to come to your house. Buy a gun and take care of it yourself, I say. Except in OBAMA's SOCIALIST America, I'm forced to bow to his plan of community police protection.