The end of "911 Conpiracy", and the beginning of "911 Common Knowledge"

I believe 0.2% in the Government's theory of the 9/11 False Flag event:

The solution, is always worse than the original problem.

That's the kicker right there.

What I've always said of the BushCo gang, and neocons like them; "They create the problems that only they can solve." The argument isn't ever about; Is there another way?

>> And the Asbestos problem in the WTC was going to cost like $2 Billion. The documents in WTC 7 had more information on the ENRON case, and another case that was a judgement against the Bush family, for many billions of dollars in a phony Treasury note scam.

What a stroke of luck that so many problems went away on 9-11?

>> We were herded into Afghanistan -- and the media did NOT broadcast the offer from what their was of a government in Afghanistan to hand over Bin Laden to a neutral country for trial. We invaded anyway.

What a coincidence that the new government is made from UNOCAL executives and now a gas pipeline is making its way to India.

Nobody from Afghanistan was on the airplanes --even in the "alleged" list we were given. Sure, it might be a place that Bin Laden hangs out -- but it's like if Manuel Noriega planned a strike from his prison in Florida and some other country bombed us because of it.

Security for America was an excuse. While they were scanning grannies shoes at the airport, they didn't implement most of the recommended changes. And of course, they attempted to sell US ports to Dubai -- the country that is well known as the banker for terrorism.

Most of the alleged bad guys were from Saudi Arabia, and we have only the Bush families word that they broke ties with the Bin Ladens. Yet, 9/12/2001, the only flight in the air is the Bin Laden family -- going home against the wishes of the FBI who had a few questions.

There is a mental disconnect in anyone trying to tell you THAT doesn't look suspicious -- a rational person would never tolerate that.

>> Yeah, we all could fill a few volumes of curious events.

reply to post by LaBTop


w.r.t. your seismic material on p4 the thread... which time sources are we using here, and how do we know they are synchronised??

ie are we sure that there is a seismic "burst" BEFORE visible movement of the building???

Also, are you factoring in the partial collapse of a wing of the building a few seconds before total collapse started?

The one positive thing we get from bringing this subject up, is that a bunch of people who post denying global warming, mocking ideas that mercury in immunizations might be a bad thing, mocking people who question our foreign entanglements, have to drop what they are doing and mock people who don't believe the nonsense the government has told us about 9.11.

If you aren't getting paid to mock people ... how foolish. Call up some Neocon think tank and offer your services today!


However, when you wonder about the billions in gold bullion in WTC 7 that just got vaporized by that near airplane strike that made the building implode -- you have to realize that money is no object. Just a fraction of the money that Fed lost; $9 Trillion, could buy a LOT of propaganda.

9/11 government theory supporters, like to look at the incident in isolation. I see it as one HUGE screw job of the Citizens of this country. The lie allowed the crime of invading Afghanistan and Iraq, and that distracted us from the Fraud on Wall Street.

The same people caught forging information for a lead up to war, that pushed the Downing Street Memos -- that lied at every turn, is supposed to be trusted because we can't catch them red-handed on 9/11? Sounds like an informer dying of spot bleeding at a mob bosses Italian restaurant.

Oh and if we bring up that topic, I'm sure some of the same bloggers swing into action lest we disparage the name of Goldman Sacks.

>> I mean, I could understand just the 911 thing by itself, but an ARMY of citizens, who are pro-corporate and anti-American middle class on any topic, to be telling us that Single-payer health care is a bad idea for uninsured kids -- because OH NO, some rich jerk-off at United Health can't make $2 Billion dollars of hard earned money.

If we someone had not tape-recorded the ENRON executives talking about screwing the public -- then we'd have an army of people mocking us for daring to say that ENRON was creating an electrical supply problem that caused them a great deal of profit. Try mentioning that some of the speculators driving up the price of gas a year ago were backed by the Oil companies.


>> It's all one big HIT on the American people. 9/11 causes less death than the War on Drugs. But the important thing is, that everybody start waking up to the BIG LIE, and how we are managed. At least, people need to read "Disaster Capitalism" by Naomi Klein. What is done to the third world; creating civil wars and selling weapons to both sides, can happen in the US -- all it takes is the desire of Psychopaths who care about nothing but their own power. Our Liberty is a nuisance to these manipulators.

OP: I read your original post and thought it was well thought out and informative. I just find fault with one aspect. Your anecdote and your logical conclusion that they must be lying because they haven't been forthwith what you want to hear. Going back to your anecdote if (given that I am NOT a thief) I leave a store and the shopkeeper says "Do you mind emptying your pockets?" my response will be "You better bet I do" and no way will I let him search me. This isn't an admission of guilt on my end it's just treading on my rights and I won't stand for it. I have a serious problem with that old and tired adage "Well if you ain't got nothin' to hide..." That phrase and mindset can be used to strip people of their individual rights because you can then be compelled to allow yourself to be searched because you didn't do anything wrong. In this anecdote I did nothing wrong and I won't sit there and be searched because of the appearance of impropriety. Because it is easier not to resist.

With all that, your conclusion that 9/11 was an inside job because they didn't pony up as much as you'd or I'd like is fallacious. On the other hand, I found your listing of facts and science to be very convincing and I believe some part of the gubmint was in on it.

well all i can say is what do we do now it seems almost everybody i know now days question 911 which is unbelievable because most people i knew when this started believed the official story now they look at it side ways not knowing much facts but making sense out of the simple fact why the hell did we go to Iraq and by the way we dident find anything no wmds that's a another topic in its own GUYS we went to war for no dam reason lol well at least we haven't found one yet that alone right there anit that enough to question people but sadly the world is moving so fast that the average person is stuck trying to change,keep up with the flow that there anit anytime to stop think and question every moment somethings getting jammed down in our life making no time to actually think about what just happen before you know it your lost TPTB have a system that we run an dont even know it we are the people that run the show they just write it they lay it out for us to play its the problem solution thing. its seems to me 9-11 changed the world as stated here the perception of the world i was in the 7th or 8th grade when 9-11 happened and i cant really remember living in fear of like something happing to America growing up i was taught America was was the country to be in no one could beat us let alone try to even attack us weird but in my reality at the time planes getting hijacked in crashed to buildings was impossible to me at the time i believed America got hurt when Kennedy got killed America died when the towers fell it was changed forever that day believe it or not your life is much different from what it would be.

There mere fact that so many folks on the "it was a coverup" side of the fence cannot agree with each other facts — and in fact, their theories vary widely, and each group supposedly had a ream of "evidence" to back their theories up — should be a pretty clear indicator that no one actually has a damned clue what happened. It's not possible that you are all right with your theories. That being the case, it's easy to come to the conclusion that all your theories could be wrong.

There is also this: People for some reason, like to think they are experts in such things such as demolition, construction, etc., when clearly they are not. Now compounded with this, are events occurring that are NOT normal by standard similar events in those respective fields. How many jumbo jets have been flown into the tallest building in a city before? How many jets have been crashed into reinforced concrete stuctures on purpose before? How often have emergency crews had to respond to disasters of this magnitude and uniqueness?

Combine the prior with the latter, and it's very easy to create fantastical, elaborate theories, none of which can possibly be disproved, because there is nothing to compare them to. With that free reign given to some folks, the conspiracy-minded go nuts with ideas, which is shown, by the massive # of different ideas on what happened.

One example: The size of the hole created by the jet crashing into the side of the Pentagon. Non-experts are quick to claim this is impossible, although, they have absolutely nothing to compare it to. Now, on a special on TV, I watched a constructrial engineer talk about this very thing. He had some 20-some years in the field. He did such research before, although not on this scale. Through computer simulations, his knowledge of the field, and the evidence on hand, he was convinced that hole was indeed, caused by that jet. He had heard the theories that it could not, and in a nutshell, he said he was aggravated and preturbed that people without his experience (or none at all), could come to such conclusions based on.. nothing. Other than what their opinions on what size hole should have been there. He spent weeks after the crash, before he determined it was indeed caused by the jet. He actually knows what he is talking about. And yet... people ignore the experts, and go off on their tangents, as if they are all-knowing about things NO one could possibly be savvy about. And then they call it "fact" and declare our government is a bunch of murderers.

Originally posted by truthtothemasses

Originally posted by GorehoundLarry
I believe the government was fully aware of the attacks. Do I believe they organized 9/11? No. But instead, they let it happen. A good excuse for war. But that's just my opinion. Don't flame me because you disagree or even call me ignorant. We all have our opinions on who organized the events that took place that day.

cheers.

But you do understand, I hope, that "let it happen" means that it was indeed an inside job, right? Meaning that certain people had to look the other way, right?

Are we on the same page here?

What you just implied is that certain people HIGH up knew it was going to happen and allowed it happen. But they absolutely needed some cooperation from the lower downs to comply. Agreed?

If you understand this basic philosophy, you might have just taken your first step from leaving "the matrix" my friend.

Uh, sure. lol.

It may have been an inside job regarding to the fact they LET the attacks take place. But no one in the government Planned it. Even Bush was aware of what was going to happen, but he didn't do a thing. These attacks were the perfect excuse for a war (or two) and a reason to violate our freedom.

You also shouldn't believe we were attacked because "we're free." We were attacked mainly due to our support of Israel.

The analogy was simply intended as a way to think about things. Technically in that situation the store employee can inform the cop at the back of the store, and the the cop can search you if there is probable cause(the employee feels certain he saw you put something into your pocket.) Now we can argue all sorts of things, but at the end of the day it's pretty certain the contents of your pockets are going to be revealed because if you still refuse to have the contents revealed the cop can write out an affidavit and then get a court order to search you. Some of this stuff probably varies from state to state, but that is the general idea.

Anyway, getting back to 9/11, it's actually a fairly high percentage of citizens that believe the government was involved in carrying it out. Therefore, under the premise that the United States is supposedly a free country with an open government with a responsibility to its citizens to maintain faith in the integrity of the government itself and to maintain trust and goodwill, the onus is put on the government by the people. (OK,OK, we all know that the U.S. is not like that at all. It's about two steps away from a complete friggin' police state - but the founding fathers really did seem to believe in things like good government)

With that said, it is in the best interest of a good government to be open and honest with its citizens since we pay the taxes. (Again, this is somewhat theoretical with the major assumption being that there is a social contract in the U.S., rather than a tyrannical shadow government that hopes and prays for the day it can enslave us!)

Do we have any idea of Silverstein's experience with either a controlled demolition, or an impending catastrophic failure of a building which necessitated the removal of emergency workers?

I ask as he's no spring chicken, and seems to be very comfortable in commercial real estate (comfortable enough to purchase a 99 year lease and beaucoup insurance on buildings that were 'past their prime'). In his experience, it's possible that he had one or more of his buildings demolished and would therefore likely have a passing knowledge of the verbiage used by demolition firms. Do they use terms such as 'pull it'?

It's also possible that in the past one of his large buildings was deemed likely to catastrophically collapse while filled with firefighters, only to have a fire chief or similar express the need to 'pull it' and withdraw their personnel.

Now, who would be the person to determine the imminent catastrophic global failure of all support in the building? Who was this person on 9/11?
What credentials do they have regarding structural integrity of large office buildings?

I don't believe the OS.

The believers of the OS want to pick apart the op's anecdotal story and change the the real focus of the debate to issues which they can argue. Further showing their need to divide the issue, not that they work for anyone who advises them to do so, they do so so naturally as a defense mechanism resulting from their denial. If others agree that the little boy story isn't a good comparison then they are satisfied and comfortable again.

It's beyond me how a rational person can believe the OS or not even question it, but denial makes people blind to certain realities.

I'll play this game...

I believe neither. I don't complete believe the government line, since there are always inaccuracies. I completely do no believe most of the so called 'truthers' out there since most of their theories are silly and deluded at best.


but, let's dissect this one a bit, shall we?

Originally posted by king9072
... The truth movement is continually divided so that it can easily be conquered through ridicule and false science. ...all while they let the goal of exposure slip away.

Actually, the truth movement defeats itself with this exact same thing. false science and ridicule. (cue ridicule now for debating the holy 'truth').

Originally posted by king9072
Always remember, there is only two sides here, you are one or the other.

You are either a person who does not believe the Official story, or you are a person that does believe the official story. That is the ONLY thing that matters.

ah, oversimplification.. this is where people who want to unite essentially lose out. They lose perspective entirely, and this 'you're either with us or against us' malarkey is what really divides you and steals your credibility.

Originally posted by king9072
It doesn't matter if you believe there was no planes, or that I believe that there was planes, if we both agree that the official story is nonsensical.

Au contraire... associating myself with whack jobs who refuse to believe there were planes involved drags my credibility down, if I chose to believe most of the 'truthers' misguided garbage anyway.

Originally posted by king9072
Another... Important Distinction
Many people seem to think that it is on the truth movement, to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Government was involved. This is FALSE.

wrong sir.. you make the accusation, the burden is on YOU to prove it.

Originally posted by king9072
Short Anecdote:
A young boy walks out of a store, the owner quickly catches up and feels the young man may have stolen some items. He asks the boy “do you mind emptying your pockets?”. If the boy has not stolen anything, he would quickly empty his pockets confirming his innocence. But, if the boy has stolen something, he will do whatever he possibly can to avoid a search.

interesting, since people complain about this by the police on this site almost daily. If I'm innocent, you have no right or reason to search me. If you thought I was stealing, it's on you to provide evidence I was before you demand something so silly.

Originally posted by king9072
We must use undisputed facts

you're kidding, right? You must be new to the whole truth movement.

Originally posted by king9072
It's time for people to understand that there are no coincidences in the grand scheme of this world. Failing to understand that fact seriously limits your ability to evaluate the current state of your reality. You are limiting your perception. Especially since, these coincidences are absolutely astronomical.

note the hilarity in the fact that you are right there already limiting and biasing yourself. right away, your arguments lack a foundation. To ridicule.. are you saying that Saddam caused my goldfish to die and the subsequent dying of the Farscape series?


That's one of the dangers of the truth movement and why it's going to fail at all turns... besides being so fractionated, no one can even agree on even similar versions of the same darn story? You see, people want to belong to things and groups. So all these different people with different crackpot hypotheses (please don't call them theories, you don't have any facts or ways or replicating anything) don't want to feel alone so they invalidly join and bond with other crackpots and try to form an artificial census under the flag of 'we don't believe the government' but at the same time screaming 'hell, we don't even believe each other, we're just rabble rousers, ignore us!'

It's kind of like watching democraps protest something.. mostly good for entertainment value, but falls far short on anything effective. But I'm impressed that no one has tried to stage a public citizens arrest on the owner of the plane manufacturer, the distiller of the fuel, the third world workers who made the airplane seats, and so on. Come on people, entertain us!

the twisted games of politics

funny we never get to see these guys and gals get punished for their misdeeds

For Taxi Driver....

Couldn`t fit these in on my earlier reply, a few relevant links.......

news.bbc.co.uk...

www.the7thfire.com...

911review.org...

reply to post by Seventh


And no matter how many times it is pointed out to you that the links you posted and the lists on them were accidents of middle names and misspellings you still refuse to understand that the 19 names as now listed (and has been for many years) are the men that hijacked the airplanes and crashed them.

Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
reply to post by Seventh

 

And no matter how many times it is pointed out to you that the links you posted and the lists on them were accidents of middle names and misspellings you still refuse to understand that the 19 names as now listed (and has been for many years) are the men that hijacked the airplanes and crashed them.

So evidence once again based on.........

Robert Mueller, Director of the FBI, has twice been forced to admit on CNN that there is "no legal proof to prove the identities of the suicidal hijackers".

No proof is a huge pointer in why names get mixed up, look at that anyway you want tbh.

reply to post by Seventh


And again, relying on information horribly out of date.

"We at this point definitely know the 19 hijackers who were responsible," he said. "We have been successful in working with our foreign counterparts in identifying places where the conspiracy we believe was hatched as well as others who may have been involved in the conspiracy."

Robert Mueller, November 2, 2001.

September 11, 2001 had to many open holes in the government's "official report" to be taken seriously at all, and yes, the fact that a conspiracy took place WAS proven 100 percent.

Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
reply to post by Seventh

 

And again, relying on information horribly out of date.

"We at this point definitely know the 19 hijackers who were responsible," he said. "We have been successful in working with our foreign counterparts in identifying places where the conspiracy we believe was hatched as well as others who may have been involved in the conspiracy."

Robert Mueller, November 2, 2001.

FOIA Autopsy report..........

www.globalresearch.ca...

Debunk that.

reply to post by fleabit


You watched an alleged construction engineer on the boob tube and that is the end of it? Who was he? Where is his boob tube analysis and what are his credentials? We're supposed to take your word for it?

Not in a million years.

There are about 25 reasons to doubt the Pentagon plane crash took place, and another 40 reasons to believe the WTC was destroyed by demolition.

reply to post by king9072


I love the idea behind this thread.

You have some valid points made here.

Divide and conquer is the agenda of the Government, to divide you against your neighbors, and conquer you through fear of the unknown.

A few good books to look through for source information in order to solve whether 9/11 happened the way it was told to us by our Government, or not :

Ghost Wars: The Secret History of the CIA, Afghanistan, and bin Laden, from the Soviet Invasion to September 10, 2001

This one tells of the involvement of the C.I.A., funding the Mujahideen through the then unknown to mass populace, Operation Cyclone, a covert war, to oust the Russian's out of Afghanistan.

It is also the basis behind the movie, "Charlies Wilson's War", except they leave out Osama bin Laden.

The Bin Ladens: An Arabian Family in the American Century

This one tells the entire family history of the supposed mastermind behind September 11th, their connection with the Al Saud family who controls Saudi Arabia, and the overall connection to the United States Government.

The Creature From Jekyll Island: A Second Look At the Federal Reserve

This one tells about the process of creating the Federal Reserve, neither "federal" nor "reserve" in nature, just a way to manipulate our economy, and make the global elite that much more richer.

The Terror Conspiracy: Deception, 9/11 and the Loss of Liberty

This one is ATS's own Jim Marrs book on the who, how, and why of September 11th, who had the most to gain, being the global elite, and the most to lose, the American public.

Buy them, or get them from your public library, I strongly encourage people to read these books.

I have multiple copies of all of them as well as other books.

I even created a thread based around two of those books :

The Creature from Jekyll Island : A Second Look at the Federal Reserve

The Terror Conspiracy : Deception, 9/11, and the Loss of Liberty

I believe my next super-thread will be on the Bin Ladens.


[edit on 20-7-2009 by SpartanKingLeonidas]