The end of "911 Conpiracy", and the beginning of "911 Common Knowledge"

Originally posted by Chronogoblin
+I DO NOT BELIEVE THE OFFICIAL STORY IS TRUE+

Having said that, I just wanted to point out something that caught my eye in the first few pages. Seems the debunkers couldn't debunk the logic of the rest of the OP, so they went with trying to derail the thread with silly little attacks on the anecdote that was posted. Blatantly obvious to me that people will try anything to avoid having to admit that they can't argue with the kind of logic that was expressed in the OP. Seems to be a tried and true method here on ATS, Deflect & Derail (and repeat, and REPEAT) until they've gone so far away from the original point that it is no longer recognized as the same entity, and the thread is closed. All because certain people can't accept certain facts, or even more disturbingly, get their kicks from intentionally derailing threads for no other reason than because they can. Great post OP, and keep up the good fight!

Chrono

Couldn't have said it better myself, as I mentioned already on Page 12, I can't believe that's what people are still talking about. It's so pathetic and reflects on the quality of the forum.

Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
reply to post by Seventh

 

And absent DNA samples for the coroner to compare to positively identify the remains, they could not put a name on the list. However, there were five sets of remains recovered that did not match the non terrorist passengers on board Flight 77. Those remains were shown to have been most likely Arab and two of them were brothers.

As for the rest of Dr. Olmstead's rant, he is a bit short on facts.

Also, here is a document from a legal office that was submitted to American Airlines in regards to the hijacked flights and the people on board. AA's system shows that the hijackers checked in at the ticket counter as follows...

Hani Hanjour (unknown)
Majed Moqed approximately 7:15 a.m.
Klialid Almihdhar approximately 7:15 a.m.
Nawaf Alhazmi approximately 7:25 - 7:30 a.m.
Salem Alhazmi approximately 7:25 - 7:30 a.m.

And that they passed through the boarding gate (boarded the aircraft) here....

Majed Moqed 7:50 a.m.
Khalid Almihdhar 7:50 a.m.
Hani Hanjour 7:52 a.m.
Nawaf Alhazmi 7:55 a.m.
Salem Alhazmi 7:55 a.m.

911myths.com...

The document also lists the airlines personnel that checked them in....but their names are redacted for their privacy.

So, I have five sets of remains, which appear to be Arab in origin and of which two are brothers and I know that five Arab gentleman boarded the airplane......

No DNA to compare to the supposed terrorists I expect so much more from you Swampy.....

1. The alleged terrorists left an apparent credit card trail depicting rented cars, luggage with how to fly jets documentation, antics in local bars the night previous to an attack, the world of DNA and crime is a wonderful thing, an average burglar deposits more than you could possibly imagine.

2. There`s a reason that every flight manifest that was originally shown did not have any Arabic passengers, the F.B.I. and or C.I.A. had their respective scapegoats already lined up, some bungling work here though apn in many aspects of the cover up, think hard here as to why one of the supposed terrorists that they got completely wrong was a Jet pilot.

3. Why is that every person whom comes forward after requesting FOIA documentation is subject to Debunkers character defamation?, Sybil Edmonds being by far the best example here.

4. The documentation you show is so easily changed it proves nothing, here`s some food for thought... Airline security is the most stringent in the world no matter where, we have 4 planes and 19 terrorists and not one picture taken from any stills from any CCTV, absolutely amazing.

5. Dr. Olmstead and FOIA = no Arabic bodies underwent an autopsy, you say he is short on facts, now take a deep look at the *FACTS* supplied by the F.B.I.

After viewing hundreds of videos and possibly hundreds of webpages about this, I haven't come to any specific conclusion other than the "official story" has some serious questions left unanswered.

Let's try and leave the whole "inside job" accusation out of it for a while. That's what draws so much ridicule. It IS a ridiculous idea for government officials, sworn to uphold values and protect its citizens all cooperated and purposely murdered 4000+ American Citizens for purposes of war and greed. A ridiculous idea indeed.

However, the only real questions that stick to my mind:


1. The Pentagon, pretty much everything about it.

- Hundreds of Cameras. Reported missile defenses and supposedly the most secure and protected building in America. Michael Moore told us that there are even cameras in the trees. Not ONE image of a plane hitting the building.

- Why did it hit a portion of the building that was pretty much empty?


- Why such little damage when planes took down 3 other buildings?


- Why did the plane circle the building to hit that side?

- What the hell was up with that group of people wearing ties and slacks combing the Pentagon lawn with their hands linked? This was a crime scene. They could have been in danger themselves from the chemicals and fires and such.


2. Finding documents from planes that were totally vaporized.


- There were some reports of IDs and passports that came from the planes. Even an ID with a clear name and face and only partially burned. Yet, the planes themselves were nearly vanished.

3. A total failure of Norad to protect us from 4 attacks.

- This whole idea is a little insane. They failed four times with prior notice?

- They just happened to be doing drills that day? These planes were off course for hours total. There's a LAW that says you must look into this immediately after a plane goes off course. You must scramble fighters to escort or shoot down a non-compliant plane. This is standard business that didn't happen. This was not a "shock" to the government, they had plans in place for a long time to deal with this type of thing.


4. Yeah, Tower 7.


- Come on, there's not a single credible answer for that building falling evenly and flush into a nice pile. Not ONE credible answer. Debris? Please. Wooden houses don't even fall from large fires.

- BBC announcing Tower 7 falling 20 minutes before it happened. Sure it could have been a weird guess on their part. But why did they "lose" the footage from that day? This is what they said. Wow.


5. Bush "saw" the first plane hit.

- Bush spoke in front of a group of people and said he watched the first plane hit. He thought, "that's a bad pilot". THEN he went into the classroom. This COULD be a common Bushism, where he fumbles his words. But that just doesn't fly with me. I think this WAS a Bushism but one where he screwed up and admitted inside knowledge that he should not have. This was not a grammatical error, this was saying HE WATCHED the first plane hit. Nobody should have watched that happen, if it was a surprise terror attack.

Maybe he was mistaken and his senile mind thought the second attack was the first or something. But he then said he went into the class and learned about the second plane hitting.


6. Silverstien

- Why buy a money-pit building that hasn't changed owners in something like 90 years? And weeks before it's totally destroyed? Why put an insane 7 billion dollar insurance policy on it citing terror attacks specifically? (Well, it HAD been attacked before by "terrorists".) Why say something like "We told them to just pull it"? I wonder what he's doing with all that money he went to court to win?

In conclusion, there's no real proof it was an inside job. There IS a TON of evidence that they allowed this to happen and didn't nothing to stop it. In fact, they might have done things to aide it, whether intentionally or not.

Just giving our "great" leaders the benefit of doubt. Maybe hundreds of people just decided to be stupid for a few hours.


Lots and LOTS of strange coincidences here. Enough to fill books. I think it's totally naive to brush it off as a "wacky conspiracy theory" and leave it and that.


I read about the analogy of a boy being searched by a store owner in this thread. That's not a good analogy. Citizens are not supposed to be transparent, our government is however. Our government should be clear as glass at ALL times. But for some reason, they won't even show us footage of the Pentagon being attacked. Shut all of us up for once.

I ask one simple question:


Everyone I've talked to will say that politicians lie all the time. They don't trust a thing the government says when it comes to their finances.


Why all of a sudden are they telling us the truth about 9/11?

After viewing hundreds of videos and possibly hundreds of webpages about this, I haven't come to any specific conclusion other than the "official story" has some serious questions left unanswered.

Let's try and leave the whole "inside job" accusation out of it for a while. That's what draws so much ridicule. It IS a ridiculous idea for government officials, sworn to uphold values and protect its citizens all cooperated and purposely murdered 4000+ American Citizens for purposes of war and greed. A ridiculous idea indeed.

However, the only real questions that stick to my mind:


1. The Pentagon, pretty much everything about it.

- Hundreds of Cameras. Reported missile defenses and supposedly the most secure and protected building in America. Michael Moore told us that there are even cameras in the trees. Not ONE image of a plane hitting the building.

- Why did it hit a portion of the building that was pretty much empty?


- Why such little damage when planes took down 3 other buildings?


- Why did the plane circle the building to hit that side?

- What the hell was up with that group of people wearing ties and slacks combing the Pentagon lawn with their hands linked? This was a crime scene. They could have been in danger themselves from the chemicals and fires and such.


2. Finding documents from planes that were totally vaporized.


- There were some reports of IDs and passports that came from the planes. Even an ID with a clear name and face and only partially burned. Yet, the planes themselves were nearly vanished.

3. A total failure of Norad to protect us from 4 attacks.

- This whole idea is a little insane. They failed four times with prior notice?

- They just happened to be doing drills that day? These planes were off course for hours total. There's a LAW that says you must look into this immediately after a plane goes off course. You must scramble fighters to escort or shoot down a non-compliant plane. This is standard business that didn't happen. This was not a "shock" to the government, they had plans in place for a long time to deal with this type of thing.


4. Yeah, Tower 7.


- Come on, there's not a single credible answer for that building falling evenly and flush into a nice pile. Not ONE credible answer. Debris? Please. Wooden houses don't even fall from large fires.

- BBC announcing Tower 7 falling 20 minutes before it happened. Sure it could have been a weird guess on their part. But why did they "lose" the footage from that day? This is what they said. Wow.


5. Bush "saw" the first plane hit.

- Bush spoke in front of a group of people and said he watched the first plane hit. He thought, "that's a bad pilot". THEN he went into the classroom. This COULD be a common Bushism, where he fumbles his words. But that just doesn't fly with me. I think this WAS a Bushism but one where he screwed up and admitted inside knowledge that he should not have. This was not a grammatical error, this was saying HE WATCHED the first plane hit. Nobody should have watched that happen, if it was a surprise terror attack.

Maybe he was mistaken and his senile mind thought the second attack was the first or something. But he then said he went into the class and learned about the second plane hitting.


6. Silverstien

- Why buy a money-pit building that hasn't changed owners in something like 90 years? And weeks before it's totally destroyed? Why put an insane 7 billion dollar insurance policy on it citing terror attacks specifically? (Well, it HAD been attacked before by "terrorists".) Why say something like "We told them to just pull it"? I wonder what he's doing with all that money he went to court to win?

In conclusion, there's no real proof it was an inside job. There IS a TON of evidence that they allowed this to happen and didn't nothing to stop it. In fact, they might have done things to aide it, whether intentionally or not.

Just giving our "great" leaders the benefit of doubt. Maybe hundreds of people just decided to be stupid for a few hours.


Lots and LOTS of strange coincidences here. Enough to fill books. I think it's totally naive to brush it off as a "wacky conspiracy theory" and leave it and that.


I read about the analogy of a boy being searched by a store owner in this thread. That's not a good analogy. Citizens are not supposed to be transparent, our government is however. Our government should be clear as glass at ALL times. But for some reason, they won't even show us footage of the Pentagon being attacked. Shut all of us up for once.

I ask one simple question:


Everyone I've talked to will say that politicians lie all the time. They don't trust a thing the government says when it comes to their finances.


Why all of a sudden are they telling us the truth about 9/11?

Just a little something I'd like to add, since anything else I would have said would be redundant.

I find the fact that this country has a documented history of allowing(and possibly perpetuating) attacks on americans and american soil(USS Maine, Pearl Harbor, Gulf of Tonkin, OKC) to justify political and military actions to be another piece of strong circumstantial evidence that the USA government had AT LEAST some foreknowledge of the attacks on 9/11 and allowed them to occur anyway for various reasons.

Originally posted by RoughKut
After viewing hundreds of videos and possibly hundreds of webpages about this, I haven't come to any specific conclusion other than the "official story" has some serious questions left unanswered.

Let's try and leave the whole "inside job" accusation out of it for a while. That's what draws so much ridicule. It IS a ridiculous idea for government officials, sworn to uphold values and protect its citizens all cooperated and purposely murdered 4000+ American Citizens for purposes of war and greed. A ridiculous idea indeed

Is it?.

www.zeitgeistmovie.com...

I DON'T BELIEVE THE OFFICIAL STORY!!!

Time prevents me from reading the entire 13 pages of this thread (although I've read most of it) but just in case it's not been mentioned, here's a link referencing the 1975 North Tower fire where despite 700 degree celsius temperatures for 3 hours, no structural damage was done. Not conclusive but it helps round out the whole picture.

whatreallyhappened.com...

I noticed several devil's advocates picking out isolated bits of evidence to challenge as if by calling question to one of these, the whole truther movement will unravel in a heap! Personally, I wouldn't reply to the piecemeal arguments but would say, go research the entire spectrum of evidence and then come back with a complete argument that explains away everything that points to a cover-up.

As additional evidence that the US government cannot be trusted, please peruse this reference (preferrably before getting your kids vaccinated!)

www.rollingstone.com...

and finally to my main point: dodadoom argues in one post (sorry cannot locate it in short time allowed) that this discussion is futile because the government will never admit to any of it. I think dodadoom has missed the point of the truther work. It doesn't matter whether or not they admit it, the important thing is that the truth gets out and if possible the guilty are brought to justice. The sooner the better, too!

Add Oklahoma, 9/11, Anthrax, Afghanistan, Iraq, whatever we're about to do in Iran and Pakistan, the bank and GM bailout, massive unemployment, millions of displaced, disaffected and angry Americans, plus corrupt pharmaceuticals, etc together and we'll wind up with a country full of people ready for a revolution. At that point, it will be us or themand they'll be the ones with the heavy artillery.

As Pastor Manning says, "White folks gonna riot and I'm gonna join 'em"

www.youtube.com...

It won't be long before people across the USA realise that they're being shat upon and start thinking about their options. I can only hope that members of the government start seeing their future in supporting Americans instead of politicians, etc.

The truth will hopefully save us!


[edit on 21-7-2009 by JohnJasper]

reply to post by jfj123


Are you having a rough day or something jfj123?

He clearly typed purposely, not suposedly.

On purpose = deliberately

supposedly = accepted as being true on inconclusive grounds.

www.youtube.com...

Its over the conspiracy theorist won. No one has debunked this video.

[edit on 21-7-2009 by GrandKitaro777]

[edit on 21-7-2009 by GrandKitaro777]

Originally posted by Seventh

Originally posted by RoughKut
After viewing hundreds of videos and possibly hundreds of webpages about this, I haven't come to any specific conclusion other than the "official story" has some serious questions left unanswered.

Let's try and leave the whole "inside job" accusation out of it for a while. That's what draws so much ridicule. It IS a ridiculous idea for government officials, sworn to uphold values and protect its citizens all cooperated and purposely murdered 4000+ American Citizens for purposes of war and greed. A ridiculous idea indeed

Is it?.

www.zeitgeistmovie.com...

I think you missed my point.

Thank you very much for this thread. S & F!!! You put it so beautifully. This is a problem the underground/counterculture/whatever you want to call it have. Instead of uniting against the common enemy, we fight amongst ourselves over the details that, as you put it, we may never know the answers to. The OS is obviously BS, but nobody can say for sure what actually took place. All I know is they make irrational decisions based off of a myth. A myth that many people I know, myself included, saw through the day it happened.

reply to post by Mark_Amy

**I do not believe the official story.**

Who wants to believe our government did this to us? It broke my heart when I discovered the truth about 9/11. Why would a bunch of people (Conspiracy Theorists) want something like this to be true? It was so easy for me to see through all the lies our government told us about that day. It has changed my life.

Thanks for this post.
I can still remember when I first understood that the OS was a lie - I had been researching this and felt confused and anxious - one afternoon I watched a video of the towers coming down - watched it over and over - knew this was not the result of planes flying into them and so I knew the govt. was lying and I went from there - A couple of years before that, I was told that 9-11 was done by criminals insiders - by those in our own system. I thought, that is really far-fetched to believe that, but I understand that with a system as bad as this one why people would feel this way.

I was still deep under the illusion of the US govt being a benevolent one - I don't think I was so much afraid to face it as just fast asleep. Waking up has been hard - shock therapy. All that I thought I knew has collapsed - I now want to know the truth about all that these govt are up to - I don't kid myself that other systems are good and this one is bad - they work together against humanity's interests.

I do think that if americans woke up to the truth of 9-11, the ground would shift and we could begin to create a system for the people and not for the criminals run by intelligence agencies and organized crime- I feel that 9-11 is the litmus test and I truly hope that millions in America and in the world wake up and realize what these criminals have done to all of us - We must stop believing the lies - we must change this planet before the bad ones can get their way.

reply to post by visitor-mc


It's funny (in an ironic sort of way at least). I remember the day after 9/11 I was hanging out with my best friend and his step dad and we were all just speculating about whether Bush did it/set the whole thing up (mainly because of how much his administration gained from it and how much he could use it to do whatever he wanted). There was so much about the media coverage that just didn't seem to add up or sit right with us.

It wasn't until a couple years later that I was introduced to all the proof that the OS was a blatant lie and even more evidence (though not 100% proof yet) that it was a false flag attack, or at least was allowed to happen in full knowledge like Pearl Harbor.

The more I think about it, the more I agree that a War on Terrorism is EXACTLY what we need right now in the world. Practically every government on this planet is engaged in some form of covert terrorism, not to mention the terrorist invasions of Afghanistan, Iraq, Lebanon, etc etc etc. We need to rid this world once and for all of ALL terrorists, not just the ones with suicide belts, but the ones with standing armies and REAL covert webs of sleeper cells around the globe (like the CIA and Mossad).

Here's hopin' that some day we won't have to live in fear of the terrorists anymore...

I think you missed my point.

I did, my apologies, my sarcasm detector was running on empty ....

For the truthers.
I was wondering, if the government used explosives to drop the WTC towers, why would they do it in an apparently obvious manner?

Let's say they did it. Wouldn't it make more sense to drop it sideways and create more death and damage to create even more outrage. I mean if you're going to do it, do it right.... RIGHT?

Let's say our government is so HYPER COMPETENT that they are able to pull of a coupe of this magnitude, wouldn't they want it to look MORE like a terrorist attack so as to not leave a shred of doubt that terrorists were behind this and get the backing of the American people 1000% ?????

reply to post by jfj123


Are you implying that because there is so much evidence of a cover up taking place instead of an event perpetrated by 19 extremists, that it must have in fact been the 19 extremists who committed the crime? Just because people have enough power to conspire to push an agenda doesn't mean that they have supreme power and technology to cover all their tracks.

[edit on 21-7-2009 by woodles]

Originally posted by woodles
reply to post by jfj123

 

Are you implying that because there is so much evidence of a cover up taking place instead of an event perpetrated by 19 extremists, that it must have in fact been the 19 extremists who committed the crime? Just because people have enough power to conspire to push an agenda doesn't mean that they have supreme power and technology to cover all their tracks.

[edit on 21-7-2009 by woodles]

You can't have it both ways. Either we have a hyper competent government able to completely control every aspect of the hypothetical conspiracy or we don't.
And surely explosives experts could have dropped the buildings so they fell in a manor that people wouldn't question. They considered every aspect but not that it looked too fake, and based on that, we might question them. Just doesn't make sense.

reply to post by jfj123


There was nothing obvious about it, at least not imho. There are still many people who go:

"Planes hit the building, and as a result they collapsed. I seen it with my own eyes!!!"

Also, if the building toppled sideways, it could leave the base and several floors standing, ready for a full fledged investigation.

Or, perhaps that was indeed their plan, but the kerozene was so hot, it melted the steel core of the building, resulting in a straight freefall collapse!

Besides, the 'evil government' didn't perpetrate 911 just to kill people, they have plenty of time to do that in the subsequent wars.

And they are not hyper competent; it's only a matter of time before most everyone agrees the OS is BS.

reply to post by Seventh


I should know better than to reply to you, because you always fail to pay attention.

DNA profiles of the terrorists were obtained and given to the proper pathologists to make identification to ensure that no terrorist remains were mistakenly mixed with those of the victims. However, the NAMES of the terrorists were not given to the pathologists, they could not label what remains belonged to which terrorist. Dr. Olmstead's information is incomplete.

THEN you are stuck on the manifest issue. No matter how many times it is pointed out to you that the lists used by the media were the lists of VICTIMS, NOT the passenger manifests. The actual manifests, list the terrrorists names. That is an unobjective fact. They werent changed cause the CIA had scapegoats. No one called United or American to say "Hey, we want you to place THESE names on your manifests"

Point 3....doesnt even relate to the quote you placed in your post. Not entirely sure why you chose to place anything about Ms Edmonds in a post to me.

Then there is this...

4. The documentation you show is so easily changed it proves nothing, here`s some food for thought... Airline security is the most stringent in the world no matter where, we have 4 planes and 19 terrorists and not one picture taken from any stills from any CCTV, absolutely amazing

Our airline security prior to 9/11 was a joke...and quite a few people would argue it STILL is a joke. I cannot think of a single airport I have been through in the last couple years that has CCTV cameras pointed directly at the gate. However in this case, that means zilch. We have American and United Airlines records that show when each of the terrorists checked in at the counter (save Hani Hanjour) AND what time they boarded the airplane. In addition, the airline personnel who checked them in have identified them as well. For your beliefs to be right, you are increasing the number of people who would have had to been "in on it" by leaps and bounds.

Dr. Olmstead and FOIA = no Arabic bodies underwent an autopsy, you say he is short on facts, now take a deep look at the *FACTS* supplied by the F.B.I.

I have....you, not so much.