Suspect puts drugs in his mouth; cop breaks his neck

Well, its an unfortunate situation, but I can tell you how the ruling is going to go on this one...

The gentleman actively resisted the officer. Under the “Use of Force” matrix/policy, the officer is allowed to take things to the next step higher. Technically the officer was in the right, though he should have used chemical/electric means to subdue the suspect. However, the officer had no intent to kill him, and intent is everything in a murder charge. When things are this borderline, the ruling will go in favor of the officer.

It will be interesting to see what happens with this one, but my guess is that it will be ruled an accident, and if the officer is punished in any way it will be for not using his pepperspray/tazer. That is, unless there is a big public outcry.

[edit on 7/13/2009 by defcon5]

reply to post by UFOTECH


Yeah, what do those videos have to do with a meth user breaking the law by driving under the influence, then obstructing justice, and resisting by trying to hide his stash?

Oh right, nothing.

Originally posted by grimreaper797
reply to post by UFOTECH

 

Yeah, what do those videos have to do with a meth user breaking the law by driving under the influence, then obstructing justice, and resisting by trying to hide his stash?

Oh right, nothing.

We know this how? Oh right, we don't.

[edit on 13-7-2009 by CuriousSkeptic]

reply to post by lucentenigma


Yeah, and how many crack heads do you know that hold a steady job, thus steady income?

Pot is one thing, you can do your job fine being a pothead. You can't do your job fine being a meth/crack/heroin/etc. head. You just can't. Physically. You need your high or you go through withdraw. You can't work high, and you can't work while going through withdraw. You lose your job.

If you do manage to get yourself another job in these hard times, you'll lose that job for the same reason you lost the first one. Once you are jobless, its not long before most your stuff is gone, and before much longer, you are homeless, back to crime to make ends meet.

Certain drugs, there simply isn't a way to lead a normal life and do them. I understand that pot and certain other drugs you can do in your free time and also maintain a normal life. That is why I am much more okay with them.

But many drugs disrupt any possibility of having a productive lifestyle, and that means they will turn to crime to live on.

It doesn't matter if a crack rock that is 20 dollars goes down to 5 dollars, if they have no income at all because they are always high or jonesing, they will become criminals.

Sorry guys but I won't blame the cop. They'd be thinner and maybe this fall wouldn't have occured.
Anyway, some people die for stupid reasons. the guy was a drug addict,yes probably, but he deserved treatment. The cop has his career down the drain because that stupid moron swallowed the stash...come on...don't blame the police again

reply to post by CuriousSkeptic


It was reported he was on drugs when he was stopped. Correct?

He was driving when he was stopped. Correct?

That means he was breaking the law. Step 2:

He refused to open his hands. Correct?

He refused to cooperate with the officers commands while investigating. Correct?

He physically tried to resist the officers attempts to subdue him. Correct? (watch the video again cause I have a feeling you might feel the need to say no here, which I would then have to call you blind.)

He is resisting. This act, violent or not, in many places is a crime. Resisting an officer with violence is obviously resisting arrest and is also battery and assault.

The only thing that can really come into question is obstruction of justice. But if you can show me that he never, at any time, put anything in his mouth, be it drugs or not, then you'll have me there.

But if he put ANYTHING in his mouth, given the situation, it was the police officers obligation and job to investigate what. The resisting of the police officer would be obstruction of justice, especially if he was trying to destroy some sort of evidence. Even if he WASN'T trying to destroy evidence, but still put something in his mouth, the cop has reasonable cause to believe that it is drugs, given the circumstances, and as a result must investigate.

So it is really obstruction either way, unless you can prove that he never attempted to put, or successfully put, anything in his mouth. If he never even made the motion to do so, then he wasn't obstructing.

Either way though, he was under the influence of an illegal substance, driving while under the influence of drugs, resisting a peace officer. That is more than enough to break this guys case of excessive force.

Lets further simplify this:
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/8d343482c412.jpg[/atsimg]
He was arguably at 4, maybe even at level 5 or 6...
Take downs are authorized beyond level 3.
His neck was accidentally broken during a take down.

Originally posted by grimreaper797
Either way, you are definitely a threat. If you are drug trafficking or selling, you are a criminal. Criminal is a frame of mind, not just an act. You know what you are doing is serious, wrong, and illegal, but you do it anyway. It takes a certain kind of frame of mind to engage in that. A disregard for law for starters. If you are using, that alone says you are a danger because you are incapable of making sound judgments. You are also prone to mood swings and violence depending on the drug. You are unpredictable.

Definitely a threat, eh? No, criminal is not a frame of mind. It is someone who gets caught in an illegal act and is incarcerated. The legal system dictates who is a criminal, not you. Your unsound judgment that all users are incapable of making sound judgments is absurd. A user may just be having a blast and enjoying the high, or he may be doing his best to stay as sane as possible by taking chemical substances.

Oh and don't give me that "it is because the war on drugs that they get killed" line. If you are a user, you probably cause the threat you cause unintentionally. A user might accidentally kill or injure somebody because they aren't mentally capable of making good choices. If they are selling/distributing/trafficking, it is because they are criminals, and if it wasn't drugs, it would be some other illegal item or trade. Human trafficking? Illegal weapons? Whatever they could get their hands into in order to make big easy money.

You spoke of walking a mile in another person's shoes. Have you ever been an addict? I have. Speaking from experience, observation, and research, many drug addicts are self-treating serious biochemical imbalances that are genetically inherited. In actuality, some users who are not using chemical substances to balance their internal state may be more likely to go mad and do something really bad than if he is just 'illin.



There's a really good book called 'Depression Free, Naturally', by Joan Mathews Larson, PHD, that may just change a lot of your perceptions and beliefs on this subject. This individual lost her son to suicide after he made "sound judgment" (lol, at least from an insane perspective) to seek a psychiatrist for his addictions and come clean. A year on therapy (false reprogramming) and he decides to go and off himself. The book is actually about how to get well from biochemical imbalances the correct way, via nutrient therapy. Good read..

small excerpt from book-- What both the U.S. and Canadian studies show is that "emotional" symptoms develop as a direct result of the unavailability of brain and body chemicals. These important chemicals create our stable emotions, behaviors, thoughts, and sanity. Page 19



[edit on 14-7-2009 by unityemissions]

[edit on 14-7-2009 by unityemissions]

lets not forget that this occured at a traffic stop. depending on what it was he swallowed, or may have already been on. the fact that he intended to drive while on it shows a complete disregard for the safety of other citizens. if he started tripping balls and mowed down a kid waiting for a bus, we will never know, but it may have happened. i didnt see why he was pulled over, maybe he was already driving erratically?

just bad luck, bad decisions, and another overzealous cop.

Besides, why is everyone being so serious?
you cant spell MANSLAUGHTER without LAUGHTER

reply to post by unityemissions


The fact that you engage in breaking the law, does not mean its OK to do so.
It is not OK to endanger others because of a personal issue.
Besides being irresponsible, its just pain selfish.
Nor does it make the officer guilty for doing his job enforcing those laws.
The law is not made by the officer, its enforced by him.
If you dislike the law, then work to change it.
Write someone...
Beyond that, the law is generally the majority rule of what is acceptable in this society.
The same is true for all societies throughout history.
Sorry, but those are the facts...

Originally posted by defcon5
If you dislike the law, then work to change it.
Write someone...
Beyond that, the law is generally the majority rule of what is acceptable in this society.
The same is true for all societies throughout history.
Sorry, but those are the facts...

Seriously?

You believe that?

This is far from fact.

reply to post by unityemissions


Ok...
Lets really simplify it for you...
You have the right to do anything you want in this country, UNTIL you infringe on the rights of another...

When you infringe on another's rights you are breaking the law.
Endangering others while driving under the influence is infringing on another's rights.

If this idiot swallowed his meth with severe coronary heart disease and a enlarged heart he was dead anyway.

He would have been dead within 30 to 40 minutes without medical attention from a combination of the heart disease and the meth.

If he was a chronic meth user he would have died within a few weeks or months from his heart stopping.

Originally posted by defcon5
reply to post by unityemissions

 

Ok...
Lets really simplify it for you...
You have the right to do anything you want in this country, UNTIL you infringe on the rights of another...

When you infringe on another's rights you are breaking the law.
Endangering others while driving under the influence is infringing on another's rights.

Yes, please simplify. I am an ex drug-user so must be quite dumb

I entirely agree with your above statement, except right and wrong are deemed by society and/or legal law. If I had the right to do whatever as long as I didn't infringe on another's right, I would be one very, very happy man!

This just isn't true either, but I do get your point.

Can't believe people are defending murder in this thread.... the world gets crazier and crazier every day. You cannot deny the driver did nothing violent and didn't hurt anyone else, even if he did break the law that is no reason to kill him. Protect and serve my foot.

reply to post by star in a jar


Dont forget about state and local prosecutors. The people who process and deal with the criminals have a hand in the complacency of it all.

Mostly from kick backs and bribes from the real distributors, not the small fry dealers people think of. Dealers are just that, peddlers of a product. they get it from some one who manufacturs and distributes. Follow the small fish dealer suppliers and you might actually make a difference.

Keep up the pony show and arrest the little fish to impress the peope and it looks like some thign is being done, in reality the oppositeis true.

another victim of the nazi war against drugs, or in reality the nazi war against life !.
the war against drugs is an unwinable war, its a shame this person has lost his life but rest assured their will be a lot more drug buyers like him..................................only most drug buyers will get away with it........................................as usual.
on the flip side.

drugs are terrible & a real problem fro society !. its a good job we have a fantastic police/bullys/thugs/murderers/bunch of killers to look after us all.........................its a shame this honest police man just doing his job....................killing inosent people.......................will now have to go to court............................be suspended from his job on full pay whilst the public forget & the honest police man can have his job back & continue in his...............................job !!!!.


this insident will have lead to no changes apart from a now dead man.
the cop will soon be looking for more victims to bully, & the drug dealers will be making money & the drug buyers will of course be getting high.

as you can see the solution to the apparent drug problem is working then

I can see it now:

"The suspect died from high blood pressure, an enlarged prostate, and 17 gunshot wounds to the spine."

This is absolutely disgusting, and what's worse is stupid things like this will keep happening until we stop making criminals out of people who have committed no crime.

This looks like another example of police brutality. I think they are becoming as bad as criminals.

Police should not be allowed to use physical force beyond what is need in order to arrest someone.

And they should be held accountable.

Originally posted by ANNED
If this idiot swallowed his meth with severe coronary heart disease and a enlarged heart he was dead anyway.

You don't make any sense.

The victim was going to ingest the substance anyways - Likely via insufflation or intravenous injection.

The perpetrator wasn't trying to save the victim.... He did break his neck though.