Skeptics seem to rely on FAITH for Flight 93 buried claim

reply to post by impressme

There has NEVER been any real proof that flight 93 crashed in Shanksville PA. I have not seen one pieces of tangible proof; furthermore, the alledge plane crash in PA was not investigated. This is the first time in American history that four airplanes crashed in one day and our government turns their back by refusing to investigate these alleged air crashes.

Exactly, When A Few People On Here, Do Some Real Research On History & How Myths, EONS AGO Were Created In The First Place -

(Misunderstanding/Or Intentionally Changing/Corrupting/Ignoring- Ancient Texts & Images)

They Will Understand How Easy The 9/11 False Flag Operation Was Executed & How Easy The Ones Long Before & After 9/11 Were To.

Bottom Line:

When You Change Something Consisting Of TRUTH, FACTS, Great Importance, Power, Value Or Knowledge, either by Innocently Misunderstanding It, Or Changing It Intentionally To Reap Benefits From It-

What Do You Get CameronFOX & Swampfox? - A Myth Or The TRUTH?

Yes We Were Hoodwinked At Shanksville & Involving The Whole 9/11 Tragedy, But Man Was First Hoodwinked EONS Ago

Cheers

edit...

[edit on 1-7-2009 by CameronFox]

Speculation about one's rationality of beating a dead horse is as logical as believing in a man in the sky who watches everything you do,sends you somewhere forever to burn in hell if you fail to follow his code,but loves you..............
This crap is getting so old.

reply to post by ATH911


Beyond faith is belief, and after that, what? Proof and knowledge, which in this case, will get you where?

Like any other theory, it's fascinating discussion, but beyond that, nothing normally comes from it.

Which leads me to ask...what ever happened with the Air France crash? The story just died.

My dad was at the scene after the crash. He said there was plane wreckage but that everything was severely damaged/destroyed.

Originally posted by chiponbothshoulders
Speculation about one's rationality of beating a dead horse is as logical as believing in a man in the sky who watches everything you do,sends you somewhere forever to burn in hell if you fail to follow his code,but loves you..............
This crap is getting so old.

Why does everyone think that god people think that he lives in the sky? He doesn't live in the sky... He has a condo in puerto rico...

this may be a stupid question but did they officially recover any bodies or remains from the site?Normally on the news you'd expect to see the tail section or some seats or luggage, anything that identifies it as a plane crash, all I've ever seen is a crater.

If most of the plane was buried underground;

WHY DIDN'T THEY DIG UP THE HOLE AREA???

...to find the crashed/buried bodies
...to find the "black box"
...
...


There are never an end to the resources spent when other planes have fallen down...


..but this; "We know a plane has crashed here - just write a report, and that's it".

I have often wandered what happened to all those people who were supposed to be on that plane.

Originally posted by trollz
My dad was at the scene after the crash. He said there was plane wreckage but that everything was severely damaged/destroyed.

Please link to the news article that verifies that your Dad was there. Thanks.

Originally posted by Iremonger
this may be a stupid question but did they officially recover any bodies or remains from the site?

No bodies and not a "single drop of blood." Officials did make the astonishing claim that all 40 passengers were identified by DNA from, get this, out of only 8% of the total mass of the 40 passengers! What incredible odds!

Normally on the news you'd expect to see the tail section or some seats or luggage, anything that identifies it as a plane crash, all I've ever seen is a crater.
No tail section, no seats, no luggage but get this, most of the plane supposedly burrowed UNDERNEATH the ground and miraculously only left a 10 foot deep crater! No, I'm not making any of this up.

reply to post by Iremonger


Excerpt from long article about Somerset County PA corner Wallace Miller
and search for remains....

A few weeks ago, Wallace Miller, coroner of Somerset County, walked around the perimeter of this area with a landowner, Tim Lambert.

Their rambling disturbed a flock of wild turkeys. Amid the racket of their departure, a thought occurred to Miller: nature had finally begun to reclaim this place.

He can remember his first time there, 10.45am, Tuesday, September 11 ­ the stench of jet fuel, still puddled on the ground, the smell of the burnt and smouldering trees and grass, the silence of nature and the men who had arrived to find they could do nothing, the overwhelming evidence that a Boeing 757, 55 metres long and weighing 110 tonnes, had somehow been obliterated, and with it, the 44 people on board.

...Miller was familiar with scenes of sudden and violent death, although none quite like this. Walking in his gumboots, the only recognisable body part he saw was a piece of spinal cord, with five vertebrae attached. 'I've seen a lot of highway fatalities where there's fragmentation,' Miller said. 'The interesting thing about this particular case is that I haven't, to this day, 11 months later, seen any single drop of blood. Not a drop. The only thing I can deduce is that the crash was over in half a second. There was a fireball 15-20 metres high, so all of that material just got vaporised.'"

"We went through here on our hands and knees hundreds of times" Source

Miller said he had identified 12 of the victims through dental records and fingerprints.

...the families of the victims deserve special care, says Miller, a 45-year-old undertaker who's known to pepper his language with profanity but calls himself "an easy touch." Miller brings them to a special viewing area–a high mound of dirt just a short walk from where the plane hit land. A stand of five battered American flags and a wreath in the United Airlines colors of blue and gray are stuck in the ground. The families must be with Miller to enter the actual crash area, which is cordoned off with a chain-link fence, but they often just stay for hours on the mound or stare through the thin bars as Miller tries to answer their questions. He'll take them just about anytime they want to go. Source

Here on this mound and elsewhere, in hundreds of face-to-face conversations and on the telephone, Miller explains to families from New Jersey to Berkeley to Japan to Germany the grisly calculus of what happened to their loved ones: The Boeing 757 still heavily laden with jet fuel slammed at about 575 mph almost straight down into a rolling patch of grassy land that had long ago been strip-mined for coal. The impact spewed a fireball of horrific force across hundreds of acres of towering hemlocks and other trees, setting many ablaze. The fuselage burrowed straight into the earth so forcefully that one of the "black boxes" was recovered at a depth of 25 feet under the ground.

As coroner, responsible for returning human remains, Miller has been forced to share with the families information that is unimaginable. As he clinically recounts to them, holding back very few details, the 33 passengers, seven crew and four hijackers together weighed roughly 7,000 pounds. They were essentially cremated together upon impact. Hundreds of searchers who climbed the hemlocks and combed the woods for weeks were able to find about 1,500 mostly scorched samples of human tissue totaling less than 600 pounds, or about 8 percent of the total.

Miller was among the very first to arrive after 10:06 on the magnificently sunny morning of September 11. He was stunned at how small the smoking crater looked, he says, "like someone took a scrap truck, dug a 10-foot ditch and dumped all this trash into it." Once he was able to absorb the scene, Miller says, "I stopped being coroner after about 20 minutes, because there were no bodies there. It became like a giant funeral service." As a funeral director, Miller says, he is honored and humbled to preside over what has become essentially an immense cemetery stretching far into the scenic wooded mountain ridge. He considers it the final resting place of 40 national heroes.

Immediately after the crash, the seeming absence of human remains led the mind of coroner Wally Miller to a surreal fantasy: that Flight 93 had somehow stopped in mid-flight and discharged all of its passengers before crashing. "There was just nothing visible," he says. "It was the strangest feeling." It would be nearly an hour before Miller came upon his first trace of a body part. Source–(Feb., '02)

But a week after the FBI closed its criminal investigation at the Somerset County site, county Coroner Wallace Miller indicated that his job has switched largely from search and recovery to a cleanup of what he deems sacred ground. "I consider this site almost like a cemetery," Miller said yesterday. "When you walk through a cemetery and you see debris, you pick it up."

Over the weekend, about 300 volunteers combed a half-mile square around the crash site and found enough debris from the Boeing 757 to fill about one-third of a trash container.

...For Miller, the focus seems to rest just as heavily on aesthetics -- from removing debris to felling charred trees that could be upsetting to relatives of Flight 93's passengers and crew. "This site won't be released until we're comfortable that we've removed as much of this debris as is humanly possible," he said.-Source (October, '01)
Somerset County Coroner's Office: 555 Tayman Avenue, Somerset, PA 15501

At end is address if want to contact them yourself....

reply to post by ATH911

No bodies and not a "single drop of blood." Officials did make the astonishing claim that all 40 passengers were identified by DNA from, get this, out of only 8% of the total mass of the 40 passengers! What incredible odds!

Normally on the news you'd expect to see the tail section or some seats or luggage, anything that identifies it as a plane crash, all I've ever seen is a crater.

No tail section, no seats, no luggage but get this, most of the plane supposedly burrowed UNDERNEATH the ground and miraculously only left a 10 foot deep crater! No, I'm not making any of this up.

Ever been to a jet crash scene? I imagine from your post you haven't....

When a plane hits ground at high speed/high angle crash the plane is
smashed into small fragments aka "metallic confetti", not much
recognizable is left .

Been up close and personal at LEAR 35A crash scene - only thing recognizable as belonging to an aircraft was 2 x 3 section of tail fin, no seats, no engines, no luggage.... Everything on board was smashed
into small fragments or burned in post crash fire

As for people on board - they are reduced to "human hamburger" Again
little recognizable remains. On this crash scene walked the ground
flagging pieces of flesh for corner to recover. Found 1/2 of chest (largest
piece found), amputated hand (minus fingers) and several human fingers

Gruesome? Yes, but what is happens at a crash scene

SNIP

Mod Edit: Courtesy is mandatory. Please review.

[edit on 7/1/2009 by yeahright]

Originally posted by ATH911

Originally posted by CameronFox
So do the MANY witnesses to the crash that I listed on page 2 of this thread. Have you started searching for the yet? Someone looking for the truth would think this is an important step in uncovering a massive government conspiracy... no?

Were any of those civilian witnesses there when the Feds allegedly dug out the estimated equivalent of 24 cars out of the ground?

I do not get why people cannot put this logic together. If civilian, independent, unaffiliated, witnesses watched a plane crash into the ground there then the argument about how much was buried is a mute point.

Follow this logic; all those witnesses that CameronFox listed saw the plane crash into the ground at that spot. Media on the scene very soon after went to that spot. Even in those early reports all they said they could see was small pieces left. So, witnesses saw the plane crash into the ground..... 60 tons going somewhere between 300 - 700mph and you have a problem with the logic of most of the plane ending up as metal confetti embedded in the ground?

Really? This is the logic of the truthers? Seriously. So disappointing.

Originally posted by ATH911

Originally posted by Iremonger
this may be a stupid question but did they officially recover any bodies or remains from the site?

No bodies and not a "single drop of blood." Officials did make the astonishing claim that all 40 passengers were identified by DNA from, get this, out of only 8% of the total mass of the 40 passengers! What incredible odds!

Normally on the news you'd expect to see the tail section or some seats or luggage, anything that identifies it as a plane crash, all I've ever seen is a crater.

No tail section, no seats, no luggage but get this, most of the plane supposedly burrowed UNDERNEATH the ground and miraculously only left a 10 foot deep crater! No, I'm not making any of this up.

I'm highly skeptical of 911 truth in general, not least because of the laugh-out-loud, comedy blockbuster Loose Change.

But I'm as puzzled as anybody about the lack of obvious debris at the PA scene.

So... are there any people who were at the scene who dispute the fact that much of the debris 'burrowed' into the soft ground there?? Did anyone who was at the scene say there was very little debris there?

[edit on 1-7-2009 by eniac]

Originally posted by thedman
When a plane hits ground at high speed/high angle crash the plane is smashed into small fragments aka "metallic confetti", not much
recognizable is left .

How much of the plane was supposedly recovered?

reply to post by Skallagrimsson

If most of the plane was buried underground;

WHY DIDN'T THEY DIG UP THE HOLE AREA???

...to find the crashed/buried bodies
...to find the "black box"
...
...

You mean like this



Or this (note equipment in background)



Or this (long aerial shot of scene)



Closer shot



Aircraft debris recovered



Human remains recovered at site



Seems your "research" is somehow lacking....

Originally posted by Skallagrimsson
If most of the plane was buried underground;

WHY DIDN'T THEY DIG UP THE HOLE AREA???

...to find the crashed/buried bodies
...to find the "black box"
...
...


There are never an end to the resources spent when other planes have fallen down...


..but this; "We know a plane has crashed here - just write a report, and that's it".

They FOUND the black box 25 feet underground buddy. Means they did dig in case you can't follow that logic.

In think many of you don't understand physics. 60 tons going 300-700mph straight down into the ground. There won't be a plane left, or bodies, or large pieces of wreckage. The energy of all that force is disseminated on the impact spot. With that amount of force, the ground acts like a large cheese grater. Everything just in essence loses its structural integrity and turns into small pieces.

Truthers act like their beliefs are completely based on logic, then ignore logic all together.

Originally posted by johnny2127
So, witnesses saw the plane crash into the ground.....

How many of them actually saw a plane hit the ground?

60 tons going somewhere between 300 - 700mph and you have a problem with the logic of most of the plane ending up as metal confetti embedded in the ground?

No, I have a problem with officials saying they essentially dug out 24 cars out of that ground, yet there is little evidence of this and the little evidence that has been show has also been shown how it could have easily been staged.

Really? This is the logic of the truthers? Seriously. So disappointing.

What's disappointing is you skeptics can't even prove where the bulk of the plane was after it crashed!!! hahaha

reply to post by ATH911


Some 60 tons of aircraft pieces was recovered, enought to fill 10 large
bins like this



Searchers spent WEEKS literally crawling over scene multiple times to recover all the pieces

Here can find reports of search efforts (too long to post)

wtc7lies.googlepages.com...

wtc7lies.googlepages.com...

wtc7lies.googlepages.com...

Please read over carefully